Theory Thread #2 - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[fox1lady]

I reckon he'll show up tomorrow to gauge how it is going... we'll not be seeing him come Friday however... no siree he'll be boarding a plane to Mozambique like you said... do anything to avoid :jail:

I agree with the posters here who think OP may try to leave the country maybe to Mozambique. I lived there for almost nine years and it is very easy to bribe the officials at customs re: airports/road entry's. It is a Portuguese speaking country but many people do understand and speak English. As for the famous Frank he could still be employed by the Pistorius family, but I think he may have returned back to Malawi after being well payed off. Most of the Malawians are not very loyal. I also lived in Malawi for almost four years and when we left the country I used to send money to the houseboy we had there ( they do like to have this title even though some in the western world may not think this is an appropriate title for them). My houseboy became quite upset when I said I didn't want to label him as a houseboy. Anyhow he became ill and died but his brother still collected the money and used it on himself. The culture is quite different and it just comes down to a matter of survival. Maybe once the trial is over we shall hear the full story from Frank himself.

 

[james83]

I wonder what bedtime story Uncle Arnold will be reading to poor little Oscar tonight?,(comedy replies welcomed and encouraged).

 

[Viper]

BIB

I may not have links, but I do have a lot of personal experience. My family grew up in Africa and the corruption is unbelievable. Getting stopped by the police and army being accused of things you hadn't done, only to be released 2 minutes later with the appropriate bribe (fee). It happened while I was growing up there and it still happens. It's hard to understand in first world nations but it is seen in emerging nations.

Of it all is the notion that OP will put in improved sports equipment at the prison and encourage fellow inmates to participate in sports after they serve their time, thus winning OP an early release on parole and then a job with a large corporation on the public speaking tour, a motivational speaker. That is ridiculous! The other things are ridiculous too, but that one takes the prize. A convicted murderer can make all of that happen? I don't think so.

BTW, I've had the pleasure of attending a number of speaches by paid speakers. One was the 12th man to walk on the moon, an astronaut; great guy. Another was a Prisoner of War in Viet Nam, his speach was amazing! Another speech that I attended was given by a lady that taught at a school for the blind, she gave her speach in near darkness of the room, it wasn't until the end that she disclosed that she herself had lost her sight after many years of teaching blind children. I just cannot imagine a hotheaded SA murderer like OP being hired by any corporation to speak about his life, his crimes, and his ordeals in the SA prison system.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Hi everyone,
I am new to posting to this thread but I have been reading all your posts with great interest. I've also watched the trial very closely, but to my disappointment, several questions still remain unanswered - or perhaps I just missed the testimonies in which these were answered. Can anyone help answer these questions for me?

1. Why did Nel never ask OP what he did upstairs when he left RS's body at the bottom of the staircase? The daughter of the second guy on the scene said that he went upstairs and was gone for a long time. I bet he was tampering with the evidence or trying to unlock Reeva's phone??
2. One picture was shown during the trial that showed blood spatter on the wall at the head of the bed in the bedroom. Whose blood was it and how did it get there? This was never discussed?
3. There was a metal panel in the bathroom that was severely dented - looked as though someone kicked it very hard or hit it with a bat - why did nobody ever ask about that?
4. A picture showed a bullet hole in the bedroom's main door - how did that get there?
5. If OP was so "vulnerable" about the ladders left outside, why the hell did he sleep with the sliding doors leading to the balcony WIDE OPEN????
6. It was found that OP was searching for *advertiser censored* on the early evening of the 13th - why did Nel never suggest that perhaps RS found the *advertiser censored* and that is why they argued??? Maybe she went downstairs to eat her midnight snack, and took his iPad with her and found the *advertiser censored* and that is when she went back upstairs to confront him. They argued, she fled to the bathroom and he shot her in a fit of rage, after screaming "get the eff out of my house!".

I am so excited to hear Masipa's judgement tomorrow I can barely contain myself!!! I'll be standing up at 1:30am to watch the proceedings!!!! (I am a South African living in Austin, TX)

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Did anyone else notice this massive slip-up of OP during his testimony?? Nel didn't even notice, and never jumped on this!!!

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 14 April 2014, Session 3
Watch the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_hle5shsDY

Crucial moment: at 16m52s to 17m03s in the video
Advocate Nel: "Why would you scream, why would you scream out?"
Oscar Pistorius: "I was scared… I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the police…"

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The verdict should be pre-meditated murder.

Could Judge Masipa reach a conclusion of dolus directus with the evidence and testimony presented?

YES.

We know most criminal case verdicts are indeed reached with circumstantial evidence. Very few murders come complete with CCTV video of the actual murder, the killer holding the smoking gun/bloody bat/signed confession and/or an eye witness(es) with a photographic memory.

This leaves the judge / assessors to reach a conclusion by exhaustive logic and reasoned inference, the careful weighing of probabilities, possibilities and certainties.

This complex, circuitous path is as good or better than direct evidence.
Like truth, hard logic does not have two or more “versions”.
Like gravity, cause and effect is not optional.

Nel was brilliant in his closing with his “mosaic” analogy. This is indeed what the prosecution has created - an arduous piecing together of each and every facet of the puzzle, no matter how tiny or seemingly insignificant. Placed all together, it paints a perfect, damning picture.

No one piece of testimony or evidence could ever convict OP of murder - but all woven together ... OP is caught in his own web.

This is what Judge Masipa and her assessors have examined - the entire (imperfect) mosaic.

A 1000 piece puzzle may have 10 or 20 pieces missing but the entire scene is still unmistakable.

Truth is always a perfect, consistent whole, smooth and seamless.
Lies are endless, messy threads that tangle and knot up - when one loose thread is caught, it begins to unravel everything.

Some say My Lady could never deliver a verdict of dolus directus, that there was no proof of any vicious fight between Reeva and OP.

I say she can.

To toss dolus directus into the trash bin, one must totally discount at least four crucial elements:

1) bedroom door with massive crack and bullet hole; smashed metal bathtub plate; broken bathroom wall tiles
2) unexplained bruises on Reeva’s body
3) EVDM’s testimony (lengthy, intense argument) and
4) Stipps, Burger and Johnson’s testimonies (light on in bathroom; Reeva’s escalating, blood-curdling screams interspersed with two sets of bangs/shots; male and female voices intermingled).

If one can infer murder by circumstantial evidence, one can infer an argument/physical fight by that same circumstantial evidence.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The timing stated here was a bit of a surprise.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...rius-s-murder-trial-will-hinge-on-intent.html

“If Pistorius is found guilty, the state and defense teams will request time to compile evidence for sentencing, which will probably be six to 12 weeks after the verdict, Marius du Toit, a criminal-defense lawyer based in Pretoria, said in an interview.”

Ah ... plenty of time to casually drive to the sunny coast of Mozambique. LOL

 

[AJ_DS]

BIB

With all due respect, I do somewhat disagree with this statement. The second part of it is so true and all credit goes to anyone that achieves great heights (eg Masipa) without family money.

But, I think OP deserves some credit for his accomplishments. He may have been born with family money behind him, but he has a disability that most of us couldn't even imagine, lost his mother to cancer at a very young age, was abandoned by his father and shipped to a boarding school. I think he has accomplished a lot and deserves the credit for this regardless of our feelings about this trial.

Well,… perhaps you have lived a very fortunate and/or sheltered life…

Having divorced parents… loosing a parent to a disease at a young age… these things are common place and are not considered by most, IMO, as an accomplishment or an undue hardship.

Being sent to a fancy private boarding school…. Oh, the humanity !… and also not uncommon at all for families with great wealth.

As for OP's handicap… he never lost anything… he was born this way and has absolutely no memory of his surgery because he was too young to remember… you can see photos of him as a kid strutting around with a big smile on his face.

He was never abused, molested, beaten, etc… by the ones he trusted and loved... and he is healthy.

He had a brother and a sister… and an extended family that supported him in everything he wanted… he never felt hunger… he always had a roof over his head… he was by most standards a spoiled child… which is reflected into his personality as an adult.

As for his professional career… c'mon, let's get real !!… he ran for a living and it was his chosen profession… how much of an accomplishment is that ?… how does OP running on a track for a medal and big bucks contribute to society, better humanity, improve anybodies life ?… at best, OP was entertainment for the masses.

If you elevate OP to the point of praising his accomplishments, then surely you must elevate above him about half of the population of this planet who have suffered, struggled, fought, endured, persisted to achieve far more important things, in far more difficult circumstances, for far less reward.

Please, don't take this post as being confrontational or disrespectful to your POV… I know my posts sometimes can read that way but it's not the case.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Retweeted by Oscar Pistorius
The Notebook @Notebook  6 May 2012
Don't worry when she fights with you, worry when she stops... because it means there's nothing left for her to fight for.

This OP tweet is rather creepy and foreboding, in light of the murderous tragedy that eventually unfolded.

Perhaps Reeva was indeed ending their relationship and trying to leave that night.

Maybe she finally got sick of his foul moods, control tactics, self-absorbed ego and petty abuses.

 

[james83]

Sum's it up for me, roll on the judgement

[video=youtube;eJlN9jdQFSc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc[/video]

 

[Chelly]

BBM... hmm... errr... well, yes... PMs may be in order... I mean, if one :scared: (who shall remain nameless) forgot the day of Nel's Heads of Argument, then I guess anything's possible. :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I recall "one-who-shall-remain-nameless" was cleaning floors at the beginning of closing arguments, lost track of time, although spouse did not. Spouse did not want to disturb the floor-cleaning, thus did not remind "one-who-shall-remain-nameless" that it was time to catch the closing. "OWSRN" missed some of closing arguments. Spouse in dog-house.

 

[foxbluff]

I think the verdict will be: dolus eventualis.

For months I've thought it would be culpable homicide.

 

[soozieqtips]

Did anyone else notice this massive slip-up of OP during his testimony?? Nel didn't even notice, and never jumped on this!!!

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 14 April 2014, Session 3
Watch the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_hle5shsDY

Crucial moment: at 16m52s to 17m03s in the video
Advocate Nel: "Why would you scream, why would you scream out?"
Oscar Pistorius: "I was scared… I wanted to ask Reeva why she's phoning the police…"

Hi Apples, and :welcome: to WS.

Yes, some of us did discuss the slip up. I think it was quite significant, as was the 31 seconds silence after Nel asked OP what he shouted at the intruder.

 

[soozieqtips]

If you elevate OP to the point of praising his accomplishments, then surely you must elevate above him about half of the population of this planet
who have suffered, struggled, fought, endured, persisted to achieve far more important things, in far more difficult circumstances, for far less reward.

~snipped~

BIB - like Judge Masipa, who will now be deciding OP's fate.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar Pistorius @OscarPistorius  15 Apr 2012
Silence often speaks louder than words..

OP was SILENT for 31 SECONDS when Nel asked him if Reeva screamed after the first shot.

 

[foxbluff]

I recall "one-who-shall-remain-nameless" was cleaning floors at the beginning of closing arguments, lost track of time, although spouse did not. Spouse did not want to disturb the floor-cleaning, thus did not remind "one-who-shall-remain-nameless" that it was time to catch the closing. Spouse in dog-house.

Ohhh but you have a good memory... dog house indeed !! And much deserved. :floorlaugh:

 

[AJ_DS]

~snipped~

BIB - like Judge Masipa, who will now be deciding OP's fate.

Indeed.

I would wager that she does not see struggle or accomplishment in OP's life.

 

[soozieqtips]

Oscar Pistorius @OscarPistorius  15 Apr 2012
Silence often speaks louder than words..

OP was SILENT for 31 SECONDS when Nel asked him if Reeva screamed after the first shot.

I remember listening to that and thinking the silence was so long that OP was about to confess.

Right. It's almost midnight here in the UK, so I'm going to get some sleep, and will see you all later for the VERDICT!!!

 

[Hatfield]

The verdict should be pre-meditated murder.

Could Judge Masipa reach a conclusion of dolus directus with the evidence and testimony presented?

YES.

We know most criminal case verdicts are indeed reached with circumstantial evidence. Very few murders come complete with CCTV video of the actual murder, the killer holding the smoking gun/bloody bat/signed confession and/or an eye witness(es) with a photographic memory.

This leaves the judge / assessors to reach a conclusion by exhaustive logic and reasoned inference, the careful weighing of probabilities, possibilities and certainties.

This complex, circuitous path is as good or better than direct evidence.
Like truth, hard logic does not have two or more “versions”.
Like gravity, cause and effect is not optional.

Nel was brilliant in his closing with his “mosaic” analogy. This is indeed what the prosecution has created - an arduous piecing together of each and every facet of the puzzle, no matter how tiny or seemingly insignificant. Placed all together, it paints a perfect, damning picture.

No one piece of testimony or evidence could ever convict OP of murder - but all woven together ... OP is caught in his own web.

This is what Judge Masipa and her assessors have examined - the entire (imperfect) mosaic.

A 1000 piece puzzle may have 10 or 20 pieces missing but the entire scene is still unmistakable.

Truth is always a perfect, consistent whole, smooth and seamless.
Lies are endless, messy threads that tangle and knot up - when one loose thread is caught, it begins to unravel everything.

Some say My Lady could never deliver a verdict of dolus directus, that there was no proof of any vicious fight between Reeva and OP.

I say she can.

To toss dolus directus into the trash bin, one must totally discount at least four crucial elements:

1) bedroom door with massive crack and bullet hole; smashed metal bathtub plate; broken bathroom wall tiles
2) unexplained bruises on Reeva’s body
3) EVDM’s testimony (lengthy, intense argument) and
4) Stipps, Burger and Johnson’s testimonies (light on in bathroom; Reeva’s escalating, blood-curdling screams interspersed with two sets of bangs/shots; male and female voices intermingled).

If one can infer murder by circumstantial evidence, one can infer an argument/physical fight by that same circumstantial evidence.

Excellent post.

I hope the judge sees things as most of us saw them during the trial.

As I try to put myself in the judge's shoes I come back to a few main things. The witnesses that heard screaming is definitely one of those things but even above that for me is when I take a step back and think about what OP was trying to convince me of. That he thought there was an intruder and so instead of making any attempt to either flee the house or yell at them to identify themselves while he already has his weapon in hand, that he would instead just rush towards them and blast away through a closed door at no telling who behind that door?

No, its not going to happen, and didnt happen. The common sense thinking of the scenerio is enough to convince me that OP was lying through his teeth during the trial.
And that alone is almost enough. But when combined with the other testimony of female screaming and the other many odd things about this case, it puts it easlily over the top for a guilty verdict for me.

 

[soozieqtips]

Found this gem from Puppet Nation.

The newscaster asks OP how he feels Nel is treating him in court, and OP mutters "As I said, I - I didn't know Gerrie Nel was in court Milady... it was... it was dark...

Hilarious, and even the sick bucket makes an appearance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yGbXY8eEPc