Theory Thread #2 - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[KING Charles]

it would be good to hear that frank is safe and well. it would also be a major journalistic coup to track him down and get even a basic story from him, i wonder how many have tried. maybe his safety and the absence of his story are connected.

it is inexplicable to me that frank wasn't deemed to have something to add to this event.

Yes, I quite agree with you. Maybe if he returned to Malawi it could be to do with fear. Fear of the family being so rich and famous. Although it would be wonderful if he was at least payed to keep quiet and is living back in his own country with some money in his pocket. Most of the locals in Malawi who are working in service don't sleep on a bed. When my houseboy came to our house we gave him a cottage at the bottom of our garden and when he saw the bed he was speechless, he was 29 years old and had never slept in a bed in his life. So Frank must have thought he had hit the jackpot to work in the Pistorius family.

 

[foxbluff]

:floorlaugh:

Looking around here...do you think that any of the regulars might just forget that tonight/tomorrow is on the calendar. I know I did and just remembered this second. Do we need to do shout outs or take attendance to ensure? :thinking:

Thank this post for attendance check so we know you are here!!! Or else you may be getting some pm's folks to remind ya! :wink:

BBM... hmm... errr... well, yes... PMs may be in order... I mean, if one :scared: (who shall remain nameless) forgot the day of Nel's Heads of Argument, then I guess anything's possible. :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[atthelake]

Another 'exclusive' look inside the house, the reporter walks us through the events of 14 Feb

http://www.today.com/news/where-oscar-pistorius-shot-reeva-steenkamp-exclusive-look-1D80137603

Thanks so much for that...he couldn't have shot at that angle if he was just at the corner! I hadn't visualized such..but that video sure did put in perspective.

O/T... WS has a live chat forum which I've used often, and during the FCA trial and Jodi trial lots of folks were talking there REAL time. Would anyone be interested in more information to go there tonight to chat real time in addition to threads? Let me know and if so, I'll post directions how to get there. You can get there through java, irc and mibbit.com.

 

[atthelake]

BBM... hmm... errr... well, yes... PMs may be in order... I mean, if one :scared: (who shall remain nameless) forgot the day of Nel's Heads of Argument, then I guess anything's possible. :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Her durn hubby iirc! We need our treats too (being selfish of course...)..and of course, our in-house atty! I haven't seen them.. pm's in order soon! As one may go to be shortly and we need to remind her!

 

[LaLaw2000]

At long last, only one more :bed: to go, or maybe .:bed: :bed:

:seeya: you all tomorrow on the big day.

I'm in Louisiana in the Central Time Zone. Court will be in just over 13 hours and I'm as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof! I've got to get some sleep super early tonight.

I know it may take over the one day for the verdict but I hope not. We have all waited so long for this.

Prepare for it to be a rollercoaster of a ride tomorrow because probably one minute we'll think Judge Masipa is going for the guilty verdict, then the next moment it will sound as if she will be finding OP not guilty or acquits him.

I am going to be absolutely sick if OP is not convicted! I am going to pitch a tremendous fit right here in my house all alone! No one would see it or hear it but it would help me, lol! I will have to place my favorite or expensive things way beyond my reach!

Please, please, please let there be justice for Reeva and her family!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-s-legacy-will-remain-mogawane-1.1748982#.VBCV0WMUrUl

Oscar's legacy will remain: Mogawane
September 10 2014 at 03:45pm
By SAPA
26712 Ofentse Mogawane

Oscar Pistorius's legacy in South African athletics will remain, regardless of the verdict in his murder trial, his former running mate Ofentse Mogawane believes.

“People tend to forget about what he has done and focus on the unfortunate incident that happened,” Mogawane said.

“He has done a lot for the country and for disabled people. He put many smiles on people's faces. He was able to put South Africa in the world spotlight. I definitely think that his contribution will stand the test of time. People will not forget.”

I'm not an OP supporter as you know but ......

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Tomorrow much success to Nel!

 

[soozieqtips]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-s-legacy-will-remain-mogawane-1.1748982#.VBCV0WMUrUl

Oscar's legacy will remain: Mogawane
September 10 2014 at 03:45pm
By SAPA
26712 Ofentse Mogawane

Oscar Pistorius's legacy in South African athletics will remain, regardless of the verdict in his murder trial, his former running mate Ofentse Mogawane believes.

“People tend to forget about what he has done and focus on the unfortunate incident that happened,” Mogawane said.

“He has done a lot for the country and for disabled people. He put many smiles on people's faces. He was able to put South Africa in the world spotlight. I definitely think that his contribution will stand the test of time. People will not forget.”

I'm not an OP supporter as you know but ......

BBM - that reminds me of when Jimmy Savile was found to have sexually abused hundreds of children/adults/hospital patients, and his supporters kept on reminding everyone of all the good charity work he'd done - as if the amount of money he raised for charity was more important than all the lives he'd ruined.

 

[soozieqtips]

I can only watch the first few hours of the verdict tomorrow (probably till the court takes its lunch break) so I'm hoping Judge Masipa will have given some clues by then as to which way she's headed.

I can't quite believe that verdict day is just one more sleep away!

 

[AJ_DS]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-s-legacy-will-remain-mogawane-1.1748982#.VBCV0WMUrUl

Oscar's legacy will remain: Mogawane
September 10 2014 at 03:45pm
By SAPA
26712 Ofentse Mogawane

Oscar Pistorius's legacy in South African athletics will remain, regardless of the verdict in his murder trial, his former running mate Ofentse Mogawane believes.

“People tend to forget about what he has done and focus on the unfortunate incident that happened,” Mogawane said.

“He has done a lot for the country and for disabled people. He put many smiles on people's faces. He was able to put South Africa in the world spotlight. I definitely think that his contribution will stand the test of time. People will not forget.”

I'm not an OP supporter as you know but ......

Legacy ??

OP has demonstrated what most people already knew : with some hard work dedicated to a single purpose and with a lot of financial resources, almost anybody can accomplish almost anything… what is far more impressive is when individuals attain great heights without vast financial resources… and these people are most often than not, much more humble and objective about their accomplishments.

As soon as OP's carbon fiber blades became mainstream and became available to fellow athletes, OP lost his singular advantage and started loosing races.

That's OP only contribution : family money paid to develop and perfect the carbon fiber blades…. big whoop for all able-bodied individuals and disabled individuals who do not wish to be sports professionals.

"unfortunate incident that happened"… bias much ?… how can a man who shoots and murders his girlfriend be referred to as an incident that just happened ??

What has OP done for South Africa ?… this Mogawane seems to elevate OP to the level of Mandela !!

Yes, OP put South Africa in the world spotlight… in a very very bad way : OP's Trial and perjuring testimony has benefited from far more coverage than any of his athletic accomplishments in all of his career !

My guess is that after OP is incarcerated nobody will give a second thought about OP and his career… the memory of OP will fade and the ONLY time OP will enter peoples mind is when they morn Reeva.

Just my opinion.

 

[Susza]

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-s-legacy-will-remain-mogawane-1.1748982#.VBCV0WMUrUl

Oscar's legacy will remain: Mogawane
September 10 2014 at 03:45pm
By SAPA
26712 Ofentse Mogawane

Oscar Pistorius's legacy in South African athletics will remain, regardless of the verdict in his murder trial, his former running mate Ofentse Mogawane believes.

“People tend to forget about what he has done and focus on the unfortunate incident that happened,” Mogawane said.

“He has done a lot for the country and for disabled people. He put many smiles on people's faces. He was able to put South Africa in the world spotlight. I definitely think that his contribution will stand the test of time. People will not forget.”

I'm not an OP supporter as you know but ......

BBM That's for sure!!! But HOW! He's put many tears on peoples faces, sadness in their hearts.

 

[soozieqtips]

Here's one reminder of how OP's fairytale doesn't add up. The others are in the link.

Pistorius says:
He heard the toilet cubicle door slam shut, and became certain an intruder or intruders had shut themselves in there.

The prosecution says:
There is no mention of this crucial noise in the bail application, or in his plea explanation.

Pistorius says he told his defence counsel, but they left it out. “Why would they do that?” Nel asked him, many times. “I’m not sure,” was the athlete’s reply. The state also pointed out that the door was locked. Pistorius has never mentioned hearing the door locked. The sound of the door being locked was demonstrated. It is distinctive.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-different-versions-dont-add-up-9724393.html

 

[twenty11]

A great point. He alledges he shouts something like "Get out of my house". Then when the supposed someone makes a wood movement noise of the door he shoots. So he says get out and then shoots when they open the door and with no mention of being armed. How on earth can anyone defend this madness. He is a liar and I'm waiting with bated breath for a 20+ year sentence.

 

[vansleuths]

Legacy ??

OP has demonstrated what most people already knew : with some hard work dedicated to a single purpose and with a lot of financial resources, almost anybody can accomplish almost anything… what is far more impressive is when individuals attain great heights without vast financial resources… and these people are most often than not, much more humble and objective about their accomplishments.

As soon as OP's carbon fiber blades became mainstream and became available to fellow athletes, OP lost his singular advantage and started loosing races.

That's OP only contribution : family money paid to develop and perfect the carbon fiber blades…. big whoop for all able-bodied individuals and disabled individuals who do not wish to be sports professionals.

"unfortunate incident that happened"… bias much ?… how can a man who shoots and murders his girlfriend be referred to as an incident that just happened ??

What has OP done for South Africa ?… this Mogawane seems to elevate OP to the level of Mandela !!

Yes, OP put South Africa in the world spotlight… in a very very bad way : OP's Trial and perjuring testimony has benefited from far more coverage than any of his athletic accomplishments in all of his career !

My guess is that after OP is incarcerated nobody will give a second thought about OP and his career… the memory of OP will fade and the ONLY time OP will enter peoples mind is when they morn Reeva.

Just my opinion.

BIB

With all due respect, I do somewhat disagree with this statement. The second part of it is so true and all credit goes to anyone that achieves great heights (eg Masipa) without family money.

But, I think OP deserves some credit for his accomplishments. He may have been born with family money behind him, but he has a disability that most of us couldn't even imagine, lost his mother to cancer at a very young age, was abandoned by his father and shipped to a boarding school. I think he has accomplished a lot and deserves the credit for this regardless of our feelings about this trial.

 

[vansleuths]

Daily Mail: Oscar Pistorius braced for murder trial verdict as prison expert reveals the horror of bloodthirsty gangs who turn inmates into sex slaves that lie in wait if he's convicted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nmates-sex-slaves-lie-wait-hes-convicted.html

Usual sensationalist stuff but daunting nevertheless.

Thanks for sharing this article. There are a number of points made that seem to suggest that Pistorius may not face real justice and this has been my concern all along. Here are a couple of points I took out of the article.

1. The centre remains his destination unless Roux can persuade the authorities he is a suicide risk and get him mental health care at the local psychiatric institute, Weskoppies.

2. How Oscar navigates this environment will be the sum of the clout of his relatives, friends in high places and the pleadings of defence advocate Barry Roux.

3. In South Africa, there is no equal justice - it's who you know and how well you know them.

4. For someone who has achieved sporting fame - and with it financial success - can secure special care in prison.

5. What happens after sentencing will attest to the strings the Pistorius family and Roux with his knowledge of 'the system' can pull.

6. The trick is to appease the public in providing a seemingly severe sentence but ensure that this is darkly prefaced by dangers of death threats, suicide and ill health.

7. Threats of suicide are common as last ditch calls from the many wealthy accused in South African docks with prison breathing down their necks. The offender then gets to be placed in a safe cell and transferred to a good advocate (in this case Roux)... then early parole. Men who get to be parolled often join the speaker circuit and make big bucks after a miraculous health recovery talking on their great mistakes and the pearls of wisdom they acquired which they are willing to dispense.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

“I was scared”.

That, my friends, is the essence of Oscar’s entire case.

How many of us have killed someone simply because we were “scared”? If “fear” is the threshold for murder, I wager most of us would be in prison. (I know for a fact I’d be sitting in San Quintin. LOL)

Hah. Here’s the beauty of Oscar’s current dire dilemma.

He thought he was home free with his “intruder” story. He could never be convicted for valiantly trying to “protect” Reeva! He shot “blind” four times through a closed door to kill this filthy “intruder”. (Did he really think he’d be hailed as some tragic hero?) LOL

He clearly intended to kill, no questions asked, no warning given (an intruder’s life in SA is immediately worthless, right? - in total violation of the law and his strict gun training).

But Oscar seriously f##ked up: that there was NO intruder behind that door is 100% irrelevant.
That he “mistakenly” killed Reeva instead of the “intruder” is no defense to murder.
Under SA law, even an intruder’s life has value.
That invisible intruder can and will send him to prison.

Had he not illegally killed the "intruder", he never would have illegally killed Reeva.

SA gun law is unambiguous: one is allowed to kill an intruder only if one is being attacked.

There was NO attack.
There was NO threat.

To swallow his pathetic claims of terror due to “sounds”, “noises”, “movement” and “wood” is to swallow bizarre fantasy in the extreme.

If his contrived notion of “attack” was accepted as reasonable, it would become an absolute defense to wholesale murder with impunity for anyone even remotely claiming “fear”.

Attack must be genuine, not conveniently “perceived”.

Despite his 11th hour attempts to suddenly claim the gun “accidentally” went off (FOUR times), his initial plea of putative self-defense cannot exist without INTENT. He cannot claim to shoot to protect himself and then, cornered by Nel, suddenly blame the gun...then when that didn’t work, claim “GAD”. :lol: His own prior testimony (as well as that of Vorster and Derman), proves he 100% intended to kill whoever was behind that door. Tailoring his evidence and tailoring his defenses points to only one thing: MURDER.

Given the damning physical evidence, multiple credible ear witnesses essentially all stating the same thing, the strict gun defense laws, his convoluted, impossibly improbable lies, contradictions and multiple versions/defenses, I do not see any way for him to escape a murder conviction.

While I’m hoping for a life sentence, dolus eventualis will send his vile azz to prison just as well.

 

[Viper]

Thanks for sharing this article. There are a number of points made that seem to suggest that Pistorius may not face real justice and this has been my concern all along. Here are a couple of points I took out of the article.

1. The centre remains his destination unless Roux can persuade the authorities he is a suicide risk and get him mental health care at the local psychiatric institute, Weskoppies.

2. How Oscar navigates this environment will be the sum of the clout of his relatives, friends in high places and the pleadings of defence advocate Barry Roux.

3. In South Africa, there is no equal justice - it's who you know and how well you know them.

4. For someone who has achieved sporting fame - and with it financial success - can secure special care in prison.

5. What happens after sentencing will attest to the strings the Pistorius family and Roux with his knowledge of 'the system' can pull.

6. The trick is to appease the public in providing a seemingly severe sentence but ensure that this is darkly prefaced by dangers of death threats, suicide and ill health.

7. Threats of suicide are common as last ditch calls from the many wealthy accused in South African docks with prison breathing down their necks. The offender then gets to be placed in a safe cell and transferred to a good advocate (in this case Roux)... then early parole. Men who get to be parolled often join the speaker circuit and make big bucks after a miraculous health recovery talking on their great mistakes and the pearls of wisdom they acquired which they are willing to dispense.

LOL!!! Do you have links to support any of that stuff?! Hmm, hmm, hmm... Why not just put forth and stand by the possibility that he will be acquitted on all charges and then he will regain his unjustly lost fame, fortune, and public admiration? At least that is a genuine possibility, albeit an astronomically remote possibility. All of these posts that seek to minimize what OP will be experiencing very soon have become tiresomely predictable and have little if any value. My two cents.

 

[Val1]

Daily Mail: Oscar Pistorius braced for murder trial verdict as prison expert reveals the horror of bloodthirsty gangs who turn inmates into sex slaves that lie in wait if he's convicted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nmates-sex-slaves-lie-wait-hes-convicted.html

Usual sensationalist stuff but daunting nevertheless.

Yes my cynical side is questioning just how much of this is the DT trying to make the case for early parole, or at the least some special accommodation for the poor delicate OP to serve his time....

 

[vansleuths]

LOL!!! Do you have links to support any of that stuff?! Hmm, hmm, hmm... Why not just put forth and stand by the possibility that he will be acquitted on all charges and then he will regain his unjustly lost fame, fortune, and public admiration? At least that is a genuine possibility, albeit an astronomically remote possibility. All of these posts that seek to minimize what OP will be experiencing very soon have become tiresomely predictable and have little if any value. My two cents.

BIB

I may not have links, but I do have a lot of personal experience. My family grew up in Africa and the corruption is unbelievable. Getting stopped by the police and army being accused of things you hadn't done, only to be released 2 minutes later with the appropriate bribe (fee). It happened while I was growing up there and it still happens. It's hard to understand in first world nations but it is seen in emerging nations.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Legal analyst and author Brenda Wardle of SA explains the controversial legal precedents that the defence has hinged their case to. Certainly worth viewing all 26 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGtIvH75YmI