Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[Viper]

I took a couple of screen shots to the hole in the bedroom door. I sharpened them in Photoshop. The first one is of the TV room side of the door. It looks like and entrance hole to me because the splinters go inwards.

View attachment 43231

The next one is the hole from the bedroom side of the door. I wasn't as successful at sharpening because the highlights are blown out. There is one splinter which can be seen fairly clearly. It appears to be going outwards.

View attachment 43232

If that is correct, the "pellet?" was fired from the TV side of the door.

I believe that Mangena was correct is saying that the marks on Reeva's back were caused by fragments ricocheting off the wall.

It do wonder why Nel didn't ask more about the bedroom door. And it is truly puzzling to me as to why he did not question OP more about the bathroom. He just kind of let OP say that he did not remember where anything was.

One of the photos of the BR door was mislabeled. For easy identification the entry point is clean, no splintering, and it is on the inside of the BR door. The exit point shows heavy splintering and it is in the TV room side of the door.

 

[Viper]

Where are you hearing "switches"




10:20 to 11:03

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJaLgTIvNlY

So it was a broken bulb. Thank you for the link! Dixon noticed that when? The day after the murder, a month, a year later? Doesn't really matter I think; it just seems a small way to take a punch at the Stipp's evidence and cause more confusion. Lots more of that to come next week! LOL!!!

 

[Ncl1968]

http://www.rightentertainment.com/?p=13515
Is this just cold ???? op holidays and meets new Girl 19 yr old Leah sky, goes on dates in disguise tells Nel under oath he has put his life on hold in respect of reeva

 

[Cymbaline]

So it was a broken bulb. Thank you for the link! Dixon noticed that when? The day after the murder, a month, a year later? Doesn't really matter I think; it just seems a small way to take a punch at the Stipp's evidence and cause more confusion. Lots more of that to come next week! LOL!!!

"The bulb in the toilet itself was not functional."


Why not just say the bulb burned out? What does not functional mean?

 

[homegirl]

BBM in red.... You are spot on!! This is exactly what they are trying to accomplish... and it failed miserably.

There can be no dispute that Reeva's head was toilet level when shot because of the broken hair and brain matter on the toilet lid. sorry
There's just no way around that physical fact.

And using the bullet hole in the door as a guide, she had to be sitting on top of the magazine rack in order for the height to work.

The magazine rack is very important because of this and once again... it was PROVEN that Oscar lied about the position of the rack. OP needed her to be on the floor because of exactly what Liesbeth said above. But the ballistics do not work out.

If her head had been shot while in mid-fall, like the Defense is asserting through their "expert" Dixon, then there would have been blood spray and brain matter higher up on the bathroom walls. And there is not.

So true. Not only do the ballistics not work out, but OP said that the mag rack was kept in the middle of the wall, moving it further to the right. Dixon demonstrated that Reeva fell onto the mag rack on the right end. He said the the bruise to her inner right buttock was caused by her hitting there on one of the cross bars. He said that the bruises on her back happened as she slid down the vertical end piece of the rack onto the floor.

He now has her sitting on the floor, right of center on the wall, with two useless limbs. There is no way that she could have gotten from that sitting position, over into the corner at the left of the toilet, let alone getting her right arm up onto the seat /per OP. Jeez!

 

[Viper]

"The bulb in the toilet itself was not functional."


Why not just say the bulb burned out? What does not functional mean?

It means that Dixon was overcompensating everything. Which is why I refuse to listen to his 2nd day of testimony. I tried, but there is just no way. I can't take it for more than 2-3 minutes!

 

[Viper]

So true. Not only do the ballistics not work out, but OP said that the mag rack was kept in the middle of the wall, moving it further to the right. Dixon demonstrated that Reeva fell onto the mag rack on the left end. He said the the bruise to her inner right buttock was caused by her hitting there on one of the cross bars. He said that the bruises on her back happened as she slid down the vertical end piece of the rack onto the floor.

He now has her sitting on the floor, left of center on the wall, with two useless limbs. There is no way that she could have gotten from that sitting position, over into the corner at the left of the toilet, let alone getting her right arm up onto the seat /per OP. Jeez!

BIB. OP said it was on the far right wall, it was in the corner of the far right wall and the back wall, and he said it was in the middle of the back wall. So you get to have a choice!

Mag rack against the right wall at 36:00 and at 37:00 checked to see if she was breathing and had a pulse after he put his left hand under her right arm. I take that to mean what it says, it is separate and unrelated to him putting his left hand under her arm.

http://youtu.be/btILfzDbfWA

 

[katydid23]

"The bulb in the toilet itself was not functional."


Why not just say the bulb burned out? What does not functional mean?

And how do we know WHEN it burned out? It takes a split second to burn out. It could have happened AFTER the shooting.

 

[toevlugsoord]

It means that Dixon was overcompensating everything. Which is why I refuse to listen to his 2nd day of testimony. I tried, but there is just no way. I can't take it for more than 2-3 minutes!

Yes - I will not rewatch that. It was painful enough the 1st time.
The way he gave his testimony was SO irritating. And I'm someone trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt so I wanted to like what he said etc. I felt like it was one long Monty Python sketch with Dixon. How he started every sentence with "Milady" etc. You could almost even see Nel rolling his eyes inside.

 

[Murphys_Law]

"The bulb in the toilet itself was not functional."


Why not just say the bulb burned out? What does not functional mean?

perhaps it was unscrewed just enough so as to not be functional.

 

[Carmelita]

Here's what I think... It actually is bad for Oscar to have that light be broken. Reeva locked herself in that room while it was dark at 3am, according to him, just to pee.

*snipped by me for brevity*
.

That is perhaps not Oscar's premise, it is easily arguable in Oscar's version that Reeva locked the door when he started screaming about an intruder. If the core of Oscar's story is true there would be no way for Reeva to know that she was actually "the intruder."

 

[homegirl]

BIB. OP said it was on the far right wall, it was in the corner of the far right wall and the back wall, and he said it was in the middle of the back wall. So you get to have a choice!

Mag rack against the right wall at 36:00 and at 37:00 checked to see if she was breathing and had a pulse after he put his left hand under her right arm. I take that to mean what it says, it is separate and unrelated to him putting his left hand under her arm.

http://youtu.be/btILfzDbfWA

Viper, I don't know what I would do without you. I obviously got my rights and lefts mixed up. I am a bad typist and bad at proof reading too. I can look right at a mistake and not see it.

Yes, he said that his housekeeper placed it in the center of the back wall, which would be to the right of where the police found it.

Dixon said that RS landed on the right end of the magazine rack also, not the left. Those are important details, so thanks.

 

[homegirl]

One of the photos of the BR door was mislabeled. For easy identification the entry point is clean, no splintering, and it is on the inside of the BR door. The exit point shows heavy splintering and it is in the TV room side of the door.

I do have to stick to my guns on this one. The labeling under the photos is hard to read, but Van Staden does have them labelled the way I posted them. There is visible splintering on the TV room side of the door, but it appears to me that the splinters are aimed inwards. The photo of the bedroom side of the door is not clear because of the blown highlights, I think that I see a splinter aimed outwards. Maybe you see it differently. I don't know how important it is, since it was hardly mentioned.

 

[Viper]

Viper, I don't know what I would do without you. I obviously got my rights and lefts mixed up. I am a bad typist and bad at proof reading too. I can look right at a mistake and not see it.

Yes, he said that his housekeeper placed it in the center of the back wall, which would be to the right of where the police found it.

Dixon said that RS landed on the right end of the magazine rack also, not the left. Those are important details, so thanks.

I don't think that you got mixed up. Your impression was that OP said the magazine rack was in the center of the back wall, not closer to the left of the back wall as shown in the photographs. That is true, he did say that. But he said other things too. If you watch his testimony about where it was he changes the location three times. OP said it was on the far right wall, then it was in the corner of the far right wall and the back wall, and then he said it was in the middle of the back wall. So you get to have a choice of three locations, any of those three locations, but not the other location, the one where it was found.

 

[Viper]

I do have to stick to my guns on this one. The labeling under the photos is hard to read, but Van Staden does have them labelled the way I posted them. There is visible splintering on the TV room side of the door, but it appears to me that the splinters are aimed inwards. The photo of the bedroom side of the door is not clear because of the blown highlights, I think that I see a splinter aimed outwards. Maybe you see it differently. I don't know how important it is, since it was hardly mentioned.

IIRC. There are three photos of the hole in the bedroom door. Find all three and look at the holes very closely and look at the associated labels. One label is labeled wrongly as to which side of the door the photo was taken, bedroom or TV room.

Regarding splintering, wood being blown off of the door by the pellet passing through it. Go back to Magena's testimony regarding the gunshot to Reeva's head. The entry hole would blow bone fragments in to her head. The exit hole would show bone fragments exiting her head. The BR door is no different; where splinters are blown outward is where the pellet exited.

Just trying to be helpful, really.

 

[lisasalinger]

In regards to the airgun shots and the bedroom door...

I keep going back and forth in my mind about the "first bangs" possibilities and something stuck out at me tonight while listening to Mrs. Stipp's cross-examination by Oldwage.

First, I really have to say... If I posted what I really thought about Oldwage, I would get a week long TO. I can't stand him. If I can make it thru this cross-examination again without losing my sanity, it will be a miracle.

Ok, so Oldwage asks Mrs. Stipp if the screaming that she heard immediately after the first set of bangs sounded muffled. Mrs. Stipp answers no, it sounded very clear to her. Of course, this makes Oldwage happy because clear screaming surely must mean that it was OP screaming (not Reeva). BUT...

What if Reeva was not in the enclosed toilet room yet. As we know, Mrs. Stipp also testified that as the screams continued, they sounded like they were getting closer.

This tends to support my original thoughts that the first set of bangs occurred at the bedroom door (not on the toilet room door).

Reeva likely locked herself in the bedroom, OP beat on the door, shot off the airgun a few times (possibly hit Reeva in the back) and that's when the super loud screaming started.

OP gets in to the room, the fight continues and ultimately ends up in the bathroom. I think the cricket bat was in somebody's hand (not sure if OP or Reeva) ready for protection, and also Reeva had her phone. OP knocks her phone to the ground, or it falls on its own during a scuffle, and she scrambles in to the toilet room and locks it.

No doubt, she would be terrified and screaming for her life, hence the escalated screams. It would match up with the screams heard and I would imagine OP would be royally angry at this point.

He shoots her and then immediately bashes the door down, not out of sorrow and need to get her out of there, but still out of anger. He did a number on that door, and the bathroom.

What do you think?

 

[Viper]

In regards to the airgun shots and the bedroom door...

I keep going back and forth in my mind about the "first bangs" possibilities and something stuck out at me tonight while listening to Mrs. Stipp's cross-examination by Oldwage.

First, I really have to say... If I posted what I really thought about Oldwage, I would get a week long TO. I can't stand him. If I can make it thru this cross-examination again without losing my sanity, it will be a miracle.

Ok, so Oldwage asks Mrs. Stipp if the screaming that she heard immediately after the first set of bangs sounded muffled. Mrs. Stipp answers no, it sounded very clear to her. Of course, this makes Oldwage happy because clear screaming surely must mean that it was OP screaming (not Reeva). BUT...

What if Reeva was not in the enclosed toilet room yet. As we know, Mrs. Stipp also testified that as the screams continued, they sounded like they were getting closer.

This tends to support my original thoughts that the first set of bangs occurred at the bedroom door (not on the toilet room door).

Reeva likely locked herself in the bedroom, OP beat on the door, shot off the airgun a few times (possibly hit Reeva in the back) and that's when the super loud screaming started.

OP gets in to the room, the fight continues and ultimately ends up in the bathroom. I think the cricket bat was in somebody's hand (not sure if OP or Reeva) ready for protection, and also Reeva had her phone. OP knocks her phone to the ground, or it falls on its own during a scuffle, and she scrambles in to the toilet room and locks it.

No doubt, she would be terrified and screaming for her life, hence the escalated screams. It would match up with the screams heard and I would imagine OP would be royally angry at this point.

He shoots her and then immediately bashes the door down, not out of sorrow and need to get her out of there, but still out of anger. He did a number on that door, and the bathroom.

What do you think?

BIB. We have both had too much to drink! LOL!!! I agree with what you described 100%, but it has not been presented at trial as evidence.

Since Nel did not include the BR doors I think we have to abandon them for the moment, unfortunately. Funny though that the one door that OP admits he barged was still in its stationary locked position after all of his efforts! He could have just released the top and bottom pins and opened the doors.

ETA: So you believe that OP was locked out of the bedroom and shot in to the bedroom a few times? The BR door evidence does not suggest that, not at all.

 

[lisasalinger]

That is perhaps not Oscar's premise, it is easily arguable in Oscar's version that Reeva locked the door when he started screaming about an intruder. If the core of Oscar's story is true there would be no way for Reeva to know that she was actually "the intruder."

That is the exact reason why he added in (while on the stand) that he heard the door slam shut as he was screaming "get the f out" to the intruder from the passageway.

I know you snipped my post for brevity, but if you kept the entire post in your quote, it clearly explains my thinking on this...

OP never mentioned a slamming door in his bail statement or his plea statement. That is an important detail and Roux would not have missed it!

OP threw it in there while on the stand to account for WHY Reeva would be in a locked and dark toilet room at 3am when it was clear that his story was ridiculous.

He just weasels his way out of whatever doesn't make sense.

 

[Laf]

:blushing:

In regards to the airgun shots and the bedroom door...

I keep going back and forth in my mind about the "first bangs" possibilities and something stuck out at me tonight while listening to Mrs. Stipp's cross-examination by Oldwage.

First, I really have to say... If I posted what I really thought about Oldwage, I would get a week long TO. I can't stand him. If I can make it thru this cross-examination again without losing my sanity, it will be a miracle.

Ok, so Oldwage asks Mrs. Stipp if the screaming that she heard immediately after the first set of bangs sounded muffled. Mrs. Stipp answers no, it sounded very clear to her. Of course, this makes Oldwage happy because clear screaming surely must mean that it was OP screaming (not Reeva). BUT...

What if Reeva was not in the enclosed toilet room yet. As we know, Mrs. Stipp also testified that as the screams continued, they sounded like they were getting closer.

This tends to support my original thoughts that the first set of bangs occurred at the bedroom door (not on the toilet room door).

Reeva likely locked herself in the bedroom, OP beat on the door, shot off the airgun a few times (possibly hit Reeva in the back) and that's when the super loud screaming started.

OP gets in to the room, the fight continues and ultimately ends up in the bathroom. I think the cricket bat was in somebody's hand (not sure if OP or Reeva) ready for protection, and also Reeva had her phone. OP knocks her phone to the ground, or it falls on its own during a scuffle, and she scrambles in to the toilet room and locks it.

No doubt, she would be terrified and screaming for her life, hence the escalated screams. It would match up with the screams heard and I would imagine OP would be royally angry at this point.

He shoots her and then immediately bashes the door down, not out of sorrow and need to get her out of there, but still out of anger. He did a number on that door, and the bathroom.

What do you think?

Lisa, I so think you are right on with this! I think a lot of the arguing occurred when Reeva was behind the locked bedroom door. This is why Oscar's voice was muffled to some of the neighbours. I think that in order for Reeva to have become so angry she must have witnessed something very upsetting or foreign to her sensibilities.
I,too think think the abrasion with striations was probably caused by a pellet having gone through the bedroom door striking her in the back. It almost looks like a burn blister injury with the weave imprint (from heat) of he shirt embedded into it.
I also can entertain the possibility that after running screaming in terror to the bathroom, holding her phone, Oscar hit the phone out of her left hand, causing the abrasion between the second and third fingers. I am also not sure that she had the key to lock herself into the toilet (that key set may have been still in the bedroom door and later moved by Oscar). That is why she stood holding the door. I also think the breaking down of the bullet panels might have been done to conceal the crime. Perhaps after he pulled her from the toilet. Hence the panel thrown or placed over the blood.

:twocents:

 

[lisasalinger]

BIB. We have both had too much to drink! LOL!!! I agree with what you described 100%, but it has not been presented at trial as evidence.

Since Nel did not include the BR doors I think we have to abandon them for the moment, unfortunately. Funny though that the one door that OP admits he barged was still in its stationary locked position after all of his efforts! He could have just released the top and bottom pins and opened the doors.

Haha... Argh!

I agree. It has to just remain a thought. Does this mean I can stop watching Oldwage now :skip:

I originally was re-watching the cross to see the part about the toilet room light but honestly, at this point she could testify that she saw a Christmas tree and Santa Claus in the window and I could care less.

Oh also... I agree with you without question that those doors were damaged for some other nefarious reason... not to simply open them :banghead: