Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[Cherwell]

Maybe duvet means something else in Africa. Here in the US a duvet is like a giant pillowcase with closures on the top, you can slip your normal quilt/blanket in there in order to match the decor of different seasons, it is also thin so easier to wash than a quilt or blanket but it never replaces a top sheet. I think no top sheet is odd but I guess some people don't use them.

You're describing a duvet cover. In Europe a duvet is what's inside the cover - a quilt which is very light in weight. They are stuffed with feathers, down or man-made fibres and come in different warmths for winter or summer use. There is no need for a top sheet as you simply wash the cover as necessary, they are usually cotton or other light washable fabric.

Duvet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[liesbeth]

Maybe duvet means something else in Africa. Here in the US a duvet is like a giant pillowcase with closures on the top, you can slip your normal quilt/blanket in there in order to match the decor of different seasons, it is also thin so easier to wash than a quilt or blanket but it never replaces a top sheet. I think no top sheet is odd but I guess some people don't use them.

A duvet here in South Africa is the giant pillow itself. The duvet cover is the giant pillowcase.

Most people I know use just the fitted bottom sheet and the duvet with cover and no top sheet for any of the following reasons:
Most duvet covers are sold in a set that includes pillow covers and often a fitted bottom sheet. Most times there is no top sheet included.
Ceiling fans and air conditioning cool the room down during the night.
A good quality summer duvet (wool or micro fiber) and duvet cover (linen) is very comfortable in the summer.

http://www.sheetstreet.com/en_za/jump/BEDROOM/Duvet-Covers/subcategory/cat860403/cat860021

 

[Carmelita]

RS, I and U BM

I can't believe for a nano second OP is/was paranoid. Someone with paranoia does not leave his windows open, doesn't have ladders laying next to his house nor does he leave a window not replaced.

Sooo...the basic premise of OP living with paranoia is false.

Dull, yes, I agree.

IMO.

BBM sorry I don't know what any of the bold means except RS (Reeva Steemkamp?)

Ok so we agree on the dull part. Perhaps it is his dullness that led him not to take precautions that an ordinary paranoid person would take, such as locking up ladders and such. Paranoid in one's responses does not necessarily mean that one is diligent in precaution, perhaps diligent in precaution takes a sharper mind than Oscar possesses. Though living in what is considered a fortress community does surely show some precautionary diligence.

 

[Carmelita]

Thanks Cherwell and Liesbeth, I have always heard of a "duvet cover" referred to as a duvet.

 

[liesbeth]

Thank you Liesbeth.Those are good images. I had a hard time depicting just where the two damages are on the wall. If I understand it correctly, there was one bullet hole mark on the wall, put in evidence as E and another mark from the ricochet in evidence as F. I probably should have made a distinction between the ricochet and the fragment paths. I'm not sure if Mangena postulated that more than one fragment hit her in the back, but I think that two were found under the magazine rack.

In the first photo that I posted of my recreation, I had to guess at everything about the bullet, ricochet, and fragment paths, and at Reeva's position.

In the second one I had the bullet path (laser), but I had to guess at the ricochet path, fragment path and Reevs's position. Reevas position etc. There are just too many variables to be accurate. Whatever the path the fragments took, I think it is quite possible that they did hit her as Mangena testified

I am glad that you liked my graphics. Before I did them, I had the idea that the shot that missed was kind of a wild shot. Now it sure seems to me that all 4 shots were aimed, with deadly intent. It lends weight, in my mind, to the theory that he could see her through a splintered space in the door.

BBM: Absolutely. Me too.

Your graphics, not just these but all of them, made the events so much more real for me. Much easier, after I've seen your images, to imagine what happened that night. And it is chilling.

Thank you again.

 

[BritsKate]

BBM sorry I don't know what any of the bold means except RS (Reeva Steemkamp?)

Ok so we agree on the dull part. Perhaps it is his dullness that led him not to take precautions that an ordinary paranoid person would take, such as locking up ladders and such. Paranoid in one's responses does not necessarily mean that one is diligent in precaution, perhaps diligent in precaution takes a sharper mind than Oscar possesses. Though living in what is considered a fortress community does surely show some precautionary diligence.

BBM

'Respectfully snipped, italicised, and underlined by me'

 

[Cymbaline]

I'm rewatching parts of the trial and just noticed this. OP forgets the part about going downstairs to unlock the door.

40:31 to 50:05
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qQBha2ZCAjU

 

[screecher]

BBM sorry I don't know what any of the bold means except RS (Reeva Steemkamp?)



Ok so we agree on the dull part. Perhaps it is his dullness that led him not to take precautions that an ordinary paranoid person would take, such as locking up ladders and such. Paranoid in one's responses does not necessarily mean that one is diligent in precaution, perhaps diligent in precaution takes a sharper mind than Oscar possesses. Though living in what is considered a fortress community does surely show some precautionary diligence.

I and U BM

What does 'ordinary paranoid' mean to you? Are you stating OP is mentally ill?

Because this is what paranoid is defined as from Merriam-Webster:

para·noid
adjective \ˈper-ə-ˌnȯid, ˌpa-rə-\

medical : of, relating to, or suffering from a mental illness that causes you to falsely believe that people are trying to harm you

: having or showing an unreasonable feeling that people are trying to harm you, do not like you, etc. : feeling or showing paranoia

 

[DebinGA]

There was an article posted yesterday which quoted Roux saying he'd be calling a psychologist to testify to OP's feeling of "vulnerability". Whether of not the word "paranoia" is used, the concept of OP's disability leaving him with a general fear of being harmed by others seems likely imo.

 

[sorrell skye]

At about 43:07 in the trial video below, Nel refers to the white phone as OP's phone.

The white phone was the one that was found buried beneath the bloody towels. By extrapolation, I think this was the phone that was referred to by Moller (cell phone analyst) as OP's business phone. According to phone logs, OP did not use this white phone to call Stander or Netcare (911) on the morning that he shot & killed Reeva. Therefore, IMO, there was no reason for this white phone to be in the bathroom.

OP's other phone (his personal phone) was the one that OP used to make calls to Stander & to Netcare (911). OP also claimed that he put this phone (personal phone) in his pocket before he picked Reeva up & carried her downstairs. That same phone was the one that went missing from the crime scene.

The black phone with the cover off that was found partially beneath the floor mat (near to where OP's gun was found) was Reeva's phone.

I'm so glad I listened to this portion of testimony again, because I now know which phone belonged to whom.

I think OP planted his business phone (the white phone) beneath the bloody towels in the bathroom when he made his unexplained trip upstairs after Dr. Stipp arrived.


Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 15 April 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

 

[screecher]

Deb, I agree that's where Roux wants to go.

Yeah, someone who feels 'vulnerable' is going to get in a man's face and threaten to break his legs?

Yell at, bully and cause physical damage to a girlfriend?

Get out of his vehicle to accost LE?

Yeppers. That's vulnerability alrighty.

I dare say, OP felt no sense of vulnerability, nor paranoia.

OTOH, I say he was confident in knowing, with his arrogance and sense of entitlement, having no personal accountability and responsibility, he would/could do whatever he chose to do.

And in the end...that's exactly what he did.

 

[crasshopper]

RBSM
...
The white phone was the one that was found buried beneath the bloody towels. By extrapolation, I think this was the phone that was referred to by Moller (cell phone analyst) as OP's business phone. According to phone logs, OP did not use this white phone to call Stander or Netcare (911) on the morning that he shot & killed Reeva. Therefore, IMO, there was no reason for this white phone to be in the bathroom.

OP's other phone (his personal phone) was the one that OP used to make calls to Stander & to Netcare (911). OP also claimed that he put this phone (personal phone) in his pocket before he picked Reeva up & carried her downstairs. That same phone was the one that went missing from the crime scene.

The black phone with the cover off that was found partially beneath the floor mat (near to where OP's gun was found) was Reeva's phone.

...

I think OP planted his business phone (the white phone) beneath the bloody towels in the bathroom when he made his unexplained trip upstairs after Dr. Stipp arrived.

Excellent sleuthwork!

 

[DebinGA]

Seems like a good response to OP feeling vulnerable would be how little concern he felt for others' lives. Thinking a car was following him and leaping out and pointing a gun at the driver? Driving so fast that Reeva (or was it Samantha?) called her mother to beg him to slow down? Shooting the gun in Tasha's and hitting his friend's foot? Shooting through the sun roof with no thought of the bullet coming down and hitting an innocent bystander?

 

[crasshopper]

DebinGA, ITA. I would also add that the examples you list also suggest the inferiority complex some have mentioned.

For some reason, somewhat surprisingly, his success apparently did nothing to abate this and may have even made it worse.

 

[Carmelita]

I and U BM

What does 'ordinary paranoid' mean to you? Are you stating OP is mentally ill?

Because this is what paranoid is defined as from Merriam-Webster:

para·noid
adjective \ˈper-ə-ˌnȯid, ˌpa-rə-\

medical : of, relating to, or suffering from a mental illness that causes you to falsely believe that people are trying to harm you

: having or showing an unreasonable feeling that people are trying to harm you, do not like you, etc. : feeling or showing paranoia

Hi Screecher, I was using the term paranoid in a looser general term not clinically or medically.

Definition 1.1 Unreasonably or obsessively anxious, suspicious, or mistrustful

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/paranoid

My apologies for the loose use of the word.

Anyhow I do not think that Oscar suffered from a paranoid personality disorder.

I do think that he showed and continues to show obvious signs of mental instability bordering on 2 or 3 different disorders. I think his extreme response to perceived danger and his incredible selfishness are negative parts of his personality maladaptations and character flaws. I think he has a hard time accepting his own humanity and puts pressure on himself to be "perfect" when he fails I think he has a self destructive (emotionally) response.


I do not (nor would anyone responsible that I know) label him by surmising any personality disorder from the public portion of him that we have seen.

 

[lisasalinger]

Yes, Roux did indeed retract the double taps. But only after Dixon's cross examination by Nel, long after Mangena.

There is a common law rule of fairness called Brown vs Dunn. This rule ensures that a witness is not ambushed. According to this rule a witness must be given the opportunity to explain if the opposing party intends to later discredit or contradict their testimony.

According to this rule, if Roux planned to contradict Mangena's testimony that bullet hole B was the bullet that missed, he should have put it to Mangena in order to give Mangena the opportunity to comment.

Roux never did that. He never put it to Mangena that B did not miss. And this means the fact that B missed was accepted by the defense.

In my earlier post I referred to the fact that Roux had put the double taps to Mangena, but not the fact that B was not the bullet that missed. (To "put it" means Roux was officially stating that the defense will argue there were double taps and he gave Mangena the opportunity to comment. Mangena commented and said it was impossible.)

BBM

Hi Liesbeth... just wanted to correct the bolded item above. The double tap story was actually changed when Dr. Botha (the Defense pathologist) was on the stand. Here are my notes:

Roux has one item to correct for the court... He acknowledges that during his cross-examination of Mangena that he put on record there was a double tap shooting. But directly after adjournment that day, he was informed that he had gotten the version incorrect. It wasn’t double tap it was actually rapid succession. Roux says to put this on him, it was his mistake.

Nel gets up and says that he is totally surprised by what Roux had to say about the double tap. Roux had previously stated that was Oscar’s version when Mangena was up and there have been several witnesses (six) since Mangena testified. This was the first that the State is hearing about their change in versions.

Nel had just finished cross-examining Botha on the double-tap version but in light of the Defense changing their version to rapid succession, Nel wanted to be able to cross-examine Botha using that detail. The Judge grants his additional cross-examination.

 

[Carmelita]

DebinGA, ITA. I would also add that the examples you list also suggest the inferiority complex some have mentioned.

For some reason, somewhat surprisingly, his success apparently did nothing to abate this and may have even made it worse.

If he does have an inferiority complex it would not be surprising that his success would not alleviate it, not from a mental health standpoint.

Because the inferiority complex is lived inward but directed outward (always worried about what others think of him) he would have felt greater pressure to live up to outside expectations, while inwardly knowing that he would fail to meet those expectations. That is part of the vicious cycle of success for someone struggling with an inferiority complex if they don't have someone competent to guide them through the process of managing their disordered thinking.

 

[sorrell skye]

Carmelita - I want you to know that I appreciate your efforts to explain your opinions in a respectful manner.

Although I believe OP is guilty of intentionally killing Reeva and you are on the fence, so to speak, I enjoy discussing the evidence with you because your posts challenge me to think.

:cheers:

 

[Carmelita]

Carmelita - I want you to know that I appreciate your efforts to explain your opinions in a respectful manner.

Although I believe OP is guilty of intentionally killing Reeva and you are on the fence, so to speak, I enjoy discussing the evidence with you because your posts challenge me to think.

:cheers:

Thanks Sorrel,

Your posts make me think and I don't mind being asked to explain why I think the way I do as it causes me to clarify things in my own mind.

I have learned a lot posting and reading here

 

[acejase]

hi everyone im new here sorry this is my first post but ive been reading through this great forum on this case (oscar p) over 500 pages took me a while

i think pt have proved defo murder with intent just on him grabbing a gun and going to the danger screeming get out my house but no were did he say or ill shoot you so didnt even give said person time to leave by what ever means possible....also he never checked outside the bathroom window for other intruders after he fired so had no thought another could of climbed in behind him after he ran back for the bat call help on balcony ect.

I think that dent on the metal plate on bath was caused by the bat by oscer hitting it to scare rs in his rage

i also think he did something to her that was so bad he would of ended up in prison hence jeans in garden and jeans inside out so had no choice but silenced her