Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[kittychi]

Absolutely true, K.T.

Not only did his family and friends help create the monster that is OP, so did a shallow, sports-and-winning-at-all-costs-idolizing society at large (surely there must be much more to life?).

"Heroes" are simply a massive reflection of us all (be very careful who we worship).

It's not just SA, it's a global plague - America is probably the world's worst - we've got dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of our own "Oscar Pistorius" "heroes" - from high school through college to pro sports ... too many regularly get away with nasty, aggressive, downright criminal, sociopathic sh#t that no sane, civilized society should ever tolerate.

BBM: I believe you are absolutely correct about that, Lux. At all the different levels that you mentioned, all different sports.

 

[Interested Bystander]

'He and Vicky Miles, his most long-term girlfriend, had a “terrible argument that proved fatal to the relationship”, Mr Pistorius said in his autobiography Blade Runner.'

BBM- erm

Thank you. The article suggested that he spoke of their relationship at length. Was that not the case?

 

[kittychi]

We're a bit different in Oz. We have a long history of "underdog" culture and profound respect for humility. Sure, the younger generation venerate their heroes and celebrities, but we also have what's called "the tall poppy syndrome".

"(Australian) Citizens know that some among them will have more power and money than others... But according to the unspoken national ethos, no Australian is permitted to assume that he or she is better than any other Australian. How is this enforced? By the prompt corrective of levelling derision. It has a name—The "Tall Poppy Syndrome". The tallest flowers in the field will be cut down to the same size as all the others. This is sometimes misunderstood...It isn't success that offends Australians. It's the affront committed by anyone who starts to put on superior airs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

Celebrities and sportsmen have to be very careful here when dealing with the media. At the slightest hint of putting on airs and graces or having a sense of entitlement or superiority in public, they'll be torn to shreds.

LOL, Russell Crowe must have a difficult time!

 

[leda]

sorry, i think my post came across totally wrong! I was only saying 'erm' to OP's choice of words re: the end of his relationship with Miles; thought they were oddly telling.

Thank you. The article suggested that he spoke of their relationship at length. Was that not the case?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

We're a bit different in Oz. We have a long history of "underdog" culture and profound respect for humility. Sure, the younger generation venerate their heroes and celebrities, but we also have what's called "the tall poppy syndrome".

"(Australian) Citizens know that some among them will have more power and money than others... But according to the unspoken national ethos, no Australian is permitted to assume that he or she is better than any other Australian. How is this enforced? By the prompt corrective of levelling derision. It has a name—The "Tall Poppy Syndrome". The tallest flowers in the field will be cut down to the same size as all the others. This is sometimes misunderstood...It isn't success that offends Australians. It's the affront committed by anyone who starts to put on superior airs."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

Celebrities and sportsmen have to be very careful here when dealing with the media. At the slightest hint of putting on airs and graces or having a sense of entitlement or superiority in public, they'll be torn to shreds.

See, this is one of the many reasons I LOVE Australia!!! :heartbeat:

 

[Val1]

Sorry, I'm reviewing some of the links I had bookmarked and now that the trial is done a few things are popping out for me.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/oscar-pistorius-charming-but-with-a-fiery-temper/story-fnb64oi6-1226578627685?nk=268c1567d72f747f29344406c9a96684

In his autobiography Pistorius spoke at length of the “fiery relationship” he had with Ms Miles. Rows were regular and “nasty”, though there was no mention of physical violence. After one argument, Mr Pistorius attempted to drive 650km from Durban to Johannesburg to see her at 3am, but had a serious crash on the way.

After Ms Miles, there was another stunning blonde called Jenna, and then came Samantha Taylor, a marketing student from Cape Town who said that the couple dated for 18 months until late last year.

Hmm first off, 3am seems to be OP's witching hour, second, nasty arguments seems not to be uncommon with him, also we never heard any evidence about his "serious crash", did he sustain a head injury, broken bones, was it before or after his 2009 boat wreck, etc.?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278774/Oscar-Pistorius-complex-love-life-girlfriend-Vicky-Miles-Samantha-Taylor-Russian-model.html

Published: 20:21 GMT, 14 February 2013 | Updated: 14:48 GMT, 15 February 2013

Oscar Pistorius appears to have enjoyed a complex love life.

His first girlfriend was his high school sweetheart Vicky Miles with whom he appears to have had an off-on relationship.

Having got together in 2006, the pair split two years later but then reunited a short while afterwards. They broke up again last year.

Pistorius and his ex-girlfriend Jenna Edkins pictured in August 2008 (left) and December 2008 (right)

Pistorius has, at various times, also been linked to at least three other South African women: Jenna Edkins, Melissa Rom and Chanelle du Plessis.

So, not that I blame him for dating more than one person after another, I don't really respect that he "appears" to want to play the starring role of boyfriend to more than one at a time to the point that he had the balls to threaten someone for daring to go on a holiday with one of the ex-girlfriends, if in fact she really had been the girlfriend(ST appears to have doubts over that too and if he was also still seeing VM and JE, perhaps others as well, during their 18 month relationship no wonder), while he was already dating his next one. The other thing that sticks out is that only JE came forward to defend him.

VM 2006-2012
JE 2008-2012
MR ?
CP ?
ST 2010?-2012
RS 2012-2013

 

[Lux et Veritas]

A wee bit OT, but was wondering if anyone knows where RS slept on Feb.8th and 9th/13? I know the DT has put it out there(implied) that the dv pic she posted with the caption "I woke up in a happy safe home this morning. Not everyone did." showed how great RS and OP's relationship was but I don't recall any proof that she slept at his house the night before she posted that.

View attachment 57556

From reviewing her last tweets/retweets and instagrams it appears she didn't have any power on Feb.11th(wish we could talk to the Myers for confirmation of so much), which from what we've heard during the heat wave they were experiencing, could not have been very pleasant and would surely be a good reason to want to stay at OP's, even without air conditioning.

As for the show she was worried about OP freaking out over, she had retweeted this preview promo on Feb13th...."Tune into @TheLinkTVShow right now 4 a sneak peek of "Tropika Islands of Treasure" @reevasteenkamp", did anyone actually see it and did it show her "flirting" with anyone?

Stitching tweets together, it certainly seems she might have been staying at OP’s house on Feb 9th (Martyn Rooney had been a houseguest).

Reeva Steenkamp @reevasteenkamp 9 Feb 2013
It's the last supper with @MartynRooney I think @OscarPistorius and I will kidnap you forever!!!!

Oscar Pistorius @OscarPistorius 10 Feb 2013
Finished watching the 8pm movie on @mnetmovies to end the weekend but the house is way to quiet without @MartynRooney! #homealoneblues

 

[Val1]

Stitching tweets together, it certainly seems she might have been staying at OP’s house on Feb 9th (Martyn Rooney had been a houseguest).

Reeva Steenkamp @reevasteenkamp 9 Feb 2013
It's the last supper with @MartynRooney I think @OscarPistorius and I will kidnap you forever!!!!

Oscar Pistorius @OscarPistorius 10 Feb 2013
Finished watching the 8pm movie on @mnetmovies to end the weekend but the house is way to quiet without @MartynRooney! #homealoneblues

That's why I asked about both the 8th and 9th, since she had posted that on the 9th if the date is showing correctly, the time difference can sometimes skew dates I've found. ie. court starts at 9:30am in SA but for me it's only 12:30am.

 

[Val1]

Another thing that just struck me while wandering back through some of the old threads, was the Sam RS was referring to in her January 26th text Divaris's girlfriend Sam Greyvenstein? If so, that certainly raises more questions imo.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?239205-Trial-Discussion-Thread-13-14-03-25-Day-15&p=10378044#post10378044

 

[Lux et Veritas]

BBM1: I am pretty sure they are not friends any more, based on some earlier discussion in this thread.

BBM2: Also, lets not forget that JD loaned OP a McLaren to drive, so I'm sure OP wanted to maintain that friendship. (BTW, OP claimed this was his own car.)

"He was in fact driving a demo model McLaren MP4-12C from the dealership of his friend Justin Divaris when he boasted in the interview on January 14 2013: 'I drive a McLaren —a gift I got for myself for this Christmas and the next one.'"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...used-deceit-repeatedly-lied-article-1.1755052

Geez, I totally forgot about that McLaren. Thanks, Kitty.

So, he got himself a "gift" (LIE) and got Reeva a Valentine's Day bracelet (LIE).

He just could not be bothered to buy his "beloved" Reeva a gift.

His entire testimony should be put through a shredder then set on fire.

He's a worse f##king than we even think. Oh, yes he is.

 

[Mr Fossil]

The fans, again

N: You tell the Court where you put the fan.
OP: The tripod fan was facing the bed, not facing the passage. As it was warm, I placed it facing us on the bed, So it was, it was in a fixed position, it wasn’t in a swiveling position, and the fan was further to – if you look at this photo, pretty much where the duvet is, facing the bed. The smaller fan was to the right of it also facing the bed My Lady.
N: … Are you telling me that the larger fan was where the duvet is now? Can you point on the screen because we’ll be able to identify that position. Just hold it there. Just hold it there. Just hold it there. There.
OP: That’s correct.
N: So you put the fan all the way there, am I right? You brought it in and put it there?
OP: My Lady, what this photo, what this photo shows is the left door being open and the curtain of the right door being in line with where the right door would have been closed. I opened both doors. They slide independently. They lock together. When I went out onto the balcony I pulled both doors open. When the balcony – when the fan was on the balcony, it was between the two doors. It wasn’t that I opened one door and then put the fan there. The doors were open and the fan was in the middle. So the fan was – where the curtains are drawn all the way closed now, the fan was in that place when I brought it in. When I brought it in I placed it – it was literally the fact of picking up the small fan and placing it on the floor with just enough space so that I could bring the bigger fan in and place it on the floor as well. I then TURNED BACK and closed the doors. The whole time my back – where I was – where I placed the fan, my back was facing the bed.

So (1) he went out onto the balcony and later said if anyone saw him on the balcony they’d be lying. (2) He obviously didn’t walk up to the fans and walk backwards into the room to avoid seeing Reeva. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE HER AS HE HAD WALKED INTO THE ROOM FROM OUTSIDE AND THEN “TURNED BACK AND CLOSED THE DOORS”.

Respectfully snipped.

Agreed that yet again he says "onto the balcony" but I think OP "turned back" to the doors from placing the fan at the end of the bed, not coming in from outside. His back is always facing the bed (in his version).

 

[Mr Fossil]

Geez, I totally forgot about that McLaren. Thanks, Kitty.

So, he got himself a "gift" (LIE) and got Reeva a Valentine's Day bracelet (LIE).

He just could not be bothered to buy his "beloved" Reeva a gift.

His entire testimony should be put through a shredder then set on fire.

He's a worse f##king than we even think. Oh, yes he is.

When asked by Roux if he got Reeva a Valentine's gift, he tells Roux about a bracelet with a couple of "trinklets" on, or was it bracelets, that he bought Reeva earlier in the year. Umm, that wasn't the question! He was so keen to cover the ground about what he had bought her. I think we must assume that he wants us to understand that the bracelet(s) was/were an early Valentine's gift. But if so, just why they were to meet at the jewellery store? If it was to pick up the bracelets (e.g. they were being made or had been ordered) then this would be provable. It wasn't a very satisfactory answer.

Roux Was there any Valentine’s gift for you for the next day?

OP Umm, I had bought Reeva a bracelet from a designer that she liked, err, earlier in the year and, umm, I hadn’t made plans for the 14th.

Roux Could you speak up a little

OP I beg your pardon.

Umm, I hadn’t made any plans on the 14th. I had a dentist appointment on the 14th in the morning. Reeva wasn’t going to stay at my house, so our plans were that, umm, I meet her in Johannesburg at this jewellery store that I got her the bracelet from. And, umm, the bracelet had a couple of trinklets or charms on it. There were two bracelets I bought her. And so I said to her, umm, we both kind of made a thing about not making a big thing out of Valentine’s Day. Umm, we were just going to have dinner ... I think for us that was a nice evening, just being alone and being at home, making dinner.

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMMdyuXfFUg&feature=youtu.be&t=55m20s

 

[Mr Fossil]

Witness tells of Oscar trial hell

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/08/25/witness-tells-of-oscar-trial-hell

 

[JudgeJudi]

Respectfully snipped.

Agreed that yet again he says "onto the balcony" but I think OP "turned back" to the doors from placing the fan at the end of the bed, not coming in from outside. His back is always facing the bed (in his version).

I don't believe he put the fan at the end of the bed. When Nel showed OP the photograph with the doona on the floor, OP said he placed the fan where the crease in the centre of the doona was. That was his version. I believe he did go out onto the balcony, picked up the fan and walked inside, and turned back to the close the doors. Walking backwards with the fan blowing in his face ... no, I don't buy that. Why should I believe his version. He said in his bail application and a number of times since that he went onto the balcony. He only changed this story when Nel started giving him a hard time. He needs to have his back always facing the bed so that he can't see Reeva. The LED light alone shows that he's lying. JMO

ETA: If you believe that the fan was at the foot of the bed then you also must believe that the police moved the fan from the position OP indicated to the position shown in the photo, immediately in front of the sliding doors.

 

[Mr Fossil]

I don't believe he put the fan at the end of the bed. When Nel showed OP the photograph with the doona on the floor, OP said he placed the fan where the crease in the centre of the doona was. That was his version. I believe he did go out onto the balcony, picked up the fan and walked inside, and turned back to the close the doors. Walking backwards with the fan blowing in his face ... no, I don't buy that. Why should I believe his version. He said in his bail application and a number of times since that he went onto the balcony. He only changed this story when Nel started giving him a hard time. He only needs to have his back always facing the bed so that he can't see Reeva. The LED light alone shows that he's lying. JMO

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe his version either. I'm just saying that the "turned back" bit is consistent with his version. In his EIC OP says to Roux "I got to the fans, where the fans were. I took the small fan, the floor fan. I placed it, umm, pretty much just inside the room." Pretty much just inside the room is not where he later tells Nel he placed it after he realises this doesn't work with his version.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe his version either. I'm just saying that the "turned back" bit is consistent with his version.

I've added a bit to the end of my post.

 

[Mr Fossil]

I don't believe he put the fan at the end of the bed. When Nel showed OP the photograph with the doona on the floor, OP said he placed the fan where the crease in the centre of the doona was. That was his version. I believe he did go out onto the balcony, picked up the fan and walked inside, and turned back to the close the doors. Walking backwards with the fan blowing in his face ... no, I don't buy that. Why should I believe his version. He said in his bail application and a number of times since that he went onto the balcony. He only changed this story when Nel started giving him a hard time. He needs to have his back always facing the bed so that he can't see Reeva. The LED light alone shows that he's lying. JMO

ETA: If you believe that the fan was at the foot of the bed then you also must believe that the police moved the fan from the position OP indicated to the position shown in the photo, immediately in front of the sliding doors.

I don't. I believe that everything was found where the police photos show things to be. I read your original post as suggesting that if OP went outside and then turned back to come in, he would see Reeva. I was just saying that he didn't say that. He said he turned back towards the window from placing the fan at the foot of the bed. It's consistent within itself and doesn't imply he turned and saw Reeva.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It’s interesting that having spent the previous night at OP’s home and knowing that he still had a shoulder injury, Reeva still placed her flipflops on his side, the left-hand side, together with her overnight bag. It’s also interesting that his iPad and his prostheses were on her side of the bed. Quite apart from that, if they were sleeping on the sides he says, why then was his vest also on her side all bunched up. It obviously wasn’t placed on top of his prostheses because he said they were down near the foot of the bed. So does that mean he removed the vest and threw it over onto her side onto the floor. I don't think they changed sides at all. This was just another bit of rubbish to bolster his version as to why he didn't see her. As Mr Fossil would say, “Oh what a tangled web we weave …”

 

[Mr Fossil]

It’s interesting that having spent the previous night at OP’s home and knowing that he still had a shoulder injury, Reeva still placed her flipflops on his side, the left-hand side, together with her overnight bag. It’s also interesting that his iPad and his prostheses were on her side of the bed. Quite apart from that, if they were sleeping on the sides he says, why then was his vest also on her side all bunched up. It obviously wasn’t placed on top of his prostheses because he said they were down near the foot of the bed. So does that mean he removed the vest and threw it over onto her side onto the floor. I don't think they changed sides at all. This was just another bit of rubbish to bolster his version as to why he didn't see her. As Mr Fossil would say, “Oh what a tangled web we weave …”

And that's assuming they both went to bed that night. It's very difficult to know what to believe.

 

[JudgeJudi]

There's something wrong about his version concerning dinner. He said when he arrived home Reeva was preparing dinner. There's only 2 of them, so just how long does it take to cut chicken into strips and slice vegetables. 15-20 minutes would be more than enough, and stir-fries only take a few minutes to cook. I would have thought dinner would have been on the table by 7.30 or thereabouts. But OP says they ate dinner just after 7.00 and finished 20 or 30 minutes later. How long can it take to eat a stir-fry, everything's already cut in strips or pieces. According to his timeline they must have eaten a stone cold dinner. I don't think they ate dinner at all and that's why Reeva ate something later, possibly a salad with cheese or tofu.

14 April, Session 1 at 15.20 (when dinner finished)

The problem here is that he tells so many lies that you just have to question everything that comes out of his mouth. So much of it just doesn't make sense.