Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[Val1]

He's referring to the 205 statements made by Vodacom as not being necessary as the admissions have been made for the phone data (e.g. both sides agree the data for 5353, 4949 and 0020). He then withdraws the data for 7775, which is Carl's phone.

Does that mean that Carl's records didn't line up with when 0020 left OP's, or could the admissions made by OP(according to Nel as per Section 220 of the Criminal Procedures Act on Mar.25 iirc) have confirmed that he was responsible for the 0020 having been withheld? I still don't get why any of that was admissable, does SA not have chain of custody laws for their evidence?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Does that mean that Carl's records didn't line up with when 0020 left OP's, or could the admissions made by OP(according to Nel as per Section 220 of the Criminal Procedures Act on Mar.25 iirc) have confirmed that he was responsible for the 0020 having been withheld? I still don't get why any of that was admissable, does SA not have chain of custody laws for their evidence?

The admissions referred to are for the phone usage data supplied by Vodacom, not the data extracted from the phones, so the chain of custody issue doesn't apply. It would be interesting to see if Carl's phone was in the same place as the 0020 phone but Nel clearly wasn't going to make it part of this trial.

 

[Giles]

"Annette Stipp, one of the prosecution's witnesses in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, said being questioned on the stand felt like a personal attack, The Times reported on Monday"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Pistorius-witness-felt-attacked-on-stand-20140825

 

[JudgeJudi]

The blue LED light

Many threads ago I posted re an experiment I carried out at home with a pedestal fan placed in the middle of sliding doors with the curtains draped on and around it in order to exclude outside light. In Oz the sun is very bright and I use blockout curtains too but for daytime use rather than nighttime. I proved that what he said was impossible because the weight of the curtains and linings is too heavy for them to stay draped on top of the fan. You have to lift them up to have any chance of them staying on the fan but the weight kept pulling them off. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get those curtains to stay there. In addition, as soon as you lift them up, the light comes in underneath them. So that was a big, big lie.

Now I’ve just discovered another lie. Why is it that the simple little things get overlooked? I asked my husband if we had anything in the house with a blue LED light and he reminded me that the little amplifier under my desk had one. It’s for the speakers that sit on my desk. Soooo, I dragged a bed in front of the blue LED light, turned off the PC monitor, covered the modem, turned off the ceiling light, and voila, I could see exactly what OP saw that night. Very interesting. Yes, it does cast light, but a whole lot more than a dim light to show a silhouette. In fact, it cast enough light to more than illuminate the width of a double bed. Not only that, but the light travelled more than 10 feet forward!!! Not only that, I then got a chair and placed it approximately 10 feet away from but directly in front of the LED light, sat on the chair, and if you face it with your eyes closed, you can’t see it at all. Now if OP was lying down in bed, on his back with his eyes closed, his eyes would be looking towards the ceiling. If he was lying on his side facing Reeva, his eyes would be looking towards the middle of the bed. There is no way that light could have distracted him at all. At all. He had to have seen her. There’s no way in the world he couldn’t. So this isn’t just a case of tailoring, it’s one of the biggest lies he’s told. OMG, I can hardly believe how big that lie is.

 

[K.T]

Sorry I've been on travelling, intermittently trying to keep up but have just seen this article, has it been posted already?

Ex-stylist Francios Louw describes the occasions where he saw Oscar Pistorius' bad temper

"He completely freaked out. He started screaming and swearing. He even kicked the garage door door so hard we got a fright. As soon as he got into the house we could even hear him screaming even louder and swearing constantly."

"...Oscar even threatened his family."

http://www.all4women.co.za/entertai...list-breaks-silence-on-frightening-bad-temper

This story sound's like Pistorius' modus operandi - get quickly angry and lash out physically and verbally. Especially by trying to kick doors.

I have always thought the bedroom door's significant damage - pellet holes, odd scraping and rips - and his obvious prevarications and illogic about how the damage occurred (I translated that telling testimony in an earlier post and it's similar to the balcony/fans/present level of contradiction) are key to how we can imagine a physical series of altercations with Steenkamp before he pulled the trigger...

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sorry I've been on travelling, intermittently trying to keep up but have just seen this article, has it been posted already?

Ex-stylist Francios Louw describes the occasions where he saw Oscar Pistorius' bad temper

"He completely freaked out. He started screaming and swearing. He even kicked the garage door door so hard we got a fright. As soon as he got into the house we could even hear him screaming even louder and swearing constantly."

"...Oscar even threatened his family."

http://www.all4women.co.za/entertai...list-breaks-silence-on-frightening-bad-temper

This story sound's like Pistorius' modus operandi - get quickly angry and lash out physically and verbally. Especially by trying to kick doors.

I have always thought the bedroom door's significant damage - pellet holes, odd scraping and rips - and his obvious prevarications and illogic about how the damage occurred (I translated that telling testimony in an earlier post and it's similar to the balcony/fans/present level of contradiction) are key to how we can imagine a physical series of altercations with Steenkamp before he pulled the trigger...

Wow, how amazing is that. I wouldn't mind betting more and more of these sort of stories are going to start surfacing. We've probably only seen the tip of the iceberg, a very large iceberg.

 

[K.T]

Totally, JudgeJudi.

On another train of thought - there's a truism in sports journalism's which says don't idolise a young teen/twenty something guy just because they can kick a ball well or in this case, run fast.

It speaks to all the times where journalism creates a superstar by masking or ignoring the pressures and fault lines that often happen with an extreme level of adulation and entitlement or are inherent in that personality. Not only fans, but from the entire somewhat corrupting system. And I think Pistorius is yet another example where his personal problems were exacerbated and abetted by an unbelievable amount of sport expectation and fame.

This is not to excuse his IMO homicidal behaviour but I've had friends who achieved a much smaller amount of success/fame and have had issues - though it's usually self destructive and helped by AA or NA.

I think the significance of fatal dating violence research and the possible pathology or shield of fame is something the trial hardly addressed...unfortunately.

 

[Interested Bystander]

This is an old newspaper article but apropos Oscar always having had a problem with his temper. (Those docs at Weskippies need their heads examined! :gaah


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...578627685?nk=268c1567d72f747f29344406c9a96684

"In his autobiography Pistorius spoke at length of the “fiery relationship” he had with Ms Miles. Rows were regular and “nasty”, though there was no mention of physical violence."

Hardly likely he would mention violence is it!

I think we all have heard of Ms Miles, his early girlfriend? Is she is the one who seems to support OP on twitter? (I don’t do Twitter LOL). Has anyone got his autobiography? If so, what (in a few words) else does he say about the relationship. She is the one he drove down to see after a huge argument and crashed on the way.

EDIT I think this may be Jenna Edkins not Vicky Miles

 

[fox1lady]

I would accept that if OP had shown some remorse, even apologised for killing Reeva and had taken responsibility. If his tears seemed genuine to me, if I believed that his puking and wretching were remorse that he had done this to the girl he loved and he was sorry for it... if and only then I would probably say, ok, I believe that he didn't intend to kill her, he shouldn't be convicted of murdering her. However, there is nothing that has convinced me yet that he didn't fully intend to shoot and kill someone... if it wasn't Reeva then it must have been this "perceived intruder" in which case in my mind that is still murder.

 

[fox1lady]

Aha, I've finally understood this. I can see now why everyone thinks he'll get CH, he can't be charged with murder even if he deliberately wanted to shoot an intruder. Is that how little a person's life is worth in South Africa? OMG

 

[4MrsB]

Val1: OMG! I had not seen that tweet before. Is it a hoax?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

FYI: re the tweet mentioned from Francious Hougaard....

YES... that specific Valentine's tweet is incorrect. As written, it is a hoax - as it has been altered from his original tweet.

Francious Hougaard did send a tweet on Feb 13, 2013 (the time stamp shown on this altered tweet of 10:59pm is NOT correct). The first 2 lines quoted are correct. But the last line "...shoot your gal 4 times.." (something like that) is what has been altered. His original tweet's final line said something like "....and keep your loved 1's close" (something very similiar to that). His original tweet from 2/13/2013 is still there to read. Not deleted.

 

[Mr Fossil]

FYI: re the tweet mentioned from Francious Hougaard....

YES... that specific Valentine's tweet is incorrect. As written, it is a hoax - as it has been altered from his original tweet.

Francious Hougaard did send a tweet on Feb 13, 2013 (the time stamp shown on this altered tweet of 10:59pm is NOT correct). The first 2 lines quoted are correct. But the last line "...shoot your gal 4 times.." (something like that) is what has been altered. His original tweet's final line said something like "....and keep your loved 1's close" (something very similiar to that). His original tweet from 2/13/2013 is still there to read. Not deleted.

Here's the original https://twitter.com/Francoishougi/status/301918515806470144

 

[PrimeSuspect]

FYI: re the tweet mentioned from Francious Hougaard....

YES... that specific Valentine's tweet is incorrect. As written, it is a hoax - as it has been altered from his original tweet.

Francious Hougaard did send a tweet on Feb 13, 2013 (the time stamp shown on this altered tweet of 10:59pm is NOT correct). The first 2 lines quoted are correct. But the last line "...shoot your gal 4 times.." (something like that) is what has been altered. His original tweet's final line said something like "....and keep your loved 1's close" (something very similiar to that). His original tweet from 2/13/2013 is still there to read. Not deleted.

Here's the original https://twitter.com/Francoishougi/status/301918515806470144

Thank you both for sorting that out. It was a tweet sent out to every one of his followers.

 

[Sherbert]

Aha, I've finally understood this. I can see now why everyone thinks he'll get CH, he can't be charged with murder even if he deliberately wanted to shoot an intruder. Is that how little a person's life is worth in South Africa? OMG

No, fox1, I don't think that's right. OP has been charged with murder, but, if Milady accepts his claim that he was acting in putative private defence, she won't find murder, but will move on to consider if his conduct was objectively unreasonable. If she finds it was, she'll make a finding of culpable homicide.

However, if she disbelieves his intruder story, she'll make a finding of murder. If she accepts his intruder story, but finds that he intended to kill the intruder, she may still find murder. It all depends on what she perceives to have been his intention. Because he fired four bullets, didn't give a warning and knew that the SA gun regulations didn't permit him to fire through the door, IMO, he will have grave difficulty establishing PPD.

 

[Sherbert]

"Annette Stipp, one of the prosecution's witnesses in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, said being questioned on the stand felt like a personal attack, The Times reported on Monday"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Pistorius-witness-felt-attacked-on-stand-20140825

I'm not surprised she feels that way. Ironic when you consider that Roux is claiming that OP was disadvantaged because his witnesses were too afraid to testify.

 

[Val1]

FYI: re the tweet mentioned from Francious Hougaard....

YES... that specific Valentine's tweet is incorrect. As written, it is a hoax - as it has been altered from his original tweet.

Francious Hougaard did send a tweet on Feb 13, 2013 (the time stamp shown on this altered tweet of 10:59pm is NOT correct). The first 2 lines quoted are correct. But the last line "...shoot your gal 4 times.." (something like that) is what has been altered. His original tweet's final line said something like "....and keep your loved 1's close" (something very similiar to that). His original tweet from 2/13/2013 is still there to read. Not deleted.

Thanks, though one wonders who, why and how it had been altered?

 

[IndianSummer]

Please Judge Masipa, don't forget about Frank. lease:
He may be considered one of the 'invisible' which I don't understand but please, he was a witness to their relationship, to the ins and outs of who did and said what, he's an important person no matter his station in life. Frank being a no show speaks volumes to me anyway.


While I'm here, another question that is niggling at me, why didn't Reeva call the police? Reeva had the phone, OP was shouting once he entered the passageway to the bathroom, and yelled, "Get the **** out of my house!" twice. Surely, Reeva had enough time to call the police, why wait?

But if she was trying to calm OP down because he was the threat,, it would be very hard to dial the police while trying to appease an enraged lover. JMHO

MORE proof IMO that He NEVER said softly/whispered/ whatever... Reeva call the police

 

[IndianSummer]

"Annette Stipp, one of the prosecution's witnesses in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, said being questioned on the stand felt like a personal attack, The Times reported on Monday"

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Pistorius-witness-felt-attacked-on-stand-20140825

Birds of a feather
The attacker's lawyer attacking

 

[foxbluff]

One VERY curious thing on OP’s phone usage log (which Mr Fossil so kindly created ).

Why did OP call Justin Divaris BEFORE his brother Carl?! (He talks to Divaris for 2:03 minutes but to Carl for only :34 seconds.)

I find that extremely odd, if not disturbingly suspicious. Why would he call a good friend before his most trusted family member, his brother (along with Aimee)? To bounce his “story” off him first before he calls his family - the real test? What does Divaris know, if anything, more (or different) than Carl?

BBM... Good question, Lux!

IDK the answer, but want to guess that it has something to do with it being VERY important to OP that JD and RS's girlfriend "Sam" hear it first from him. (He can be sure of having Carl and Aimee believe in and support him regardless of when and how they learn of the "incident." Also, part of the reason to call JD before Carl and Aimee, might have something to do with knowing it will take JD much longer to drive to his home than it will his siblings.)

JD is not only OP's best friend (they darn near got together daily), but also imo OP's most treasured business contact/mentor. Let's not forget that JD had advised and helped OP in the past to get out of "sticky" situations that would be damaging to his relationships with sponsors. e.g. the meeting with the Hawks JD set up for OP and (sp?)Batchlor. moo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is an old newspaper article but apropos Oscar always having had a problem with his temper. (Those docs at Weskippies need their heads examined! :gaah


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...578627685?nk=268c1567d72f747f29344406c9a96684

"In his autobiography Pistorius spoke at length of the “fiery relationship” he had with Ms Miles. Rows were regular and “nasty”, though there was no mention of physical violence."

Hardly likely he would mention violence is it!

I think we all have heard of Ms Miles, his early girlfriend? Is she is the one who seems to support OP on twitter? (I don’t do Twitter LOL). Has anyone got his autobiography? If so, what (in a few words) else does he say about the relationship. She is the one he drove down to see after a huge argument and crashed on the way.

EDIT I think this may be Jenna Edkins not Vicky Miles

bbm red

No, it had been Vicky Miles (I am sure .)