Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[fox1lady]

Can anyone recall a time where OP displayed genuine remorse? I'm trying to remember.

 

[soozieqtips]

Can anyone recall a time where OP displayed genuine remorse? I'm trying to remember.

I think we're divided over this subject. My own opinion, having heard him on the stand and heard all the wailing and howling is that he hasn't shown any remorse for murdering Reeva. The detached way he talks about her like she's some distant friend he knew many years ago indicates (to me) that he wasn't close to her, didn't really give a fig about her, but liked how she looked on his arm. I've interpreted all the vomiting, sobbing, ear-plugging etc, as sorrow for himself, for his broken image, his lost hero status, and the fact he can't seem to wriggle his way out of this one. At no point, and I stress, at no point - have I personally felt he's shown a shred of remorse for murdering Reeva. All the lies rolling out, one after the other after the other, and the discrediting of anyone who gives evidence that makes it look bad for him, is just further proof that he's not remorseful. I don't think he feels guilty about killing Reeva. I think he feels hacked off that his pathetic explanation wasn't considered as gospel, and that's why he has to argue when he's being questioned, because he doesn't really see he should be on trial in the first place. "I fail to see how I can be charged with murder, let alone premeditated murder...". indignant, much?

 

[screecher]

Maybe, but I have no idea whether that's true or not. Or even if it was, whether it has anything to do with what happened that night. Plenty of perfectly decent men are know-it-alls, especially when it comes to us "little ladies."

jmo

And on the flip side, none of 'us' know as fact, whether it's true or not, OP had more 'practical knowledge', regarding that particular contract, than Reeva.

Unless, of course, you have inside information.

RSBM
BBM

"... I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. ...."

 

[soozieqtips]

And on the flip side, none of 'us' know as fact, whether it's true or not, OP had more 'practical knowledge', regarding that particular contract, than Reeva.

Unless, of course, you have inside information.

RSBM
BBM

"... I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. ...."

I'd like to know exactly what changes OP made to that contract. I don't think he was 'helping' her at all. Maybe there was something in it that riled him and he wanted her to change it because something in it upset him. Maybe that's why they argued? Out of the two of them, Reeva seemed the most intelligent by a long shot, and I doubt very much she'd have needed (or asked for) his help with her own contract. When he did Reeva a 'favour' by giving her friend a lift, he scared Reeva by speeding, and then he justified it by saying it was because her was giving her friend a lift (and because he was hungry). He doesn't come across as the type of guy who likes to do anyone a favour, apart from himself.

 

[liesbeth]

I notice that under Education at the link, only a secondary school is listed. I thought she had a law degree.

eta: never mind. I see it all over the place in google. I guess in SA you get a college degree in law.

If you attend a college in South Africa you get a diploma, not a degree.

Reeva earned a Bachelor of Law degree in 2005 at Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University in Port Elizabeth.

http://www.biography.com/people/reeva-steenkamp-21129547

 

[screecher]

I'd like to know exactly what changes OP made to that contract. I don't think he was 'helping' her at all. Maybe there was something in it that riled him and he wanted her to change it because something in it upset him. Maybe that's why they argued? Out of the two of them, Reeva seemed the most intelligent by a long shot, and I doubt very much she'd have needed (or asked for) his help with her own contract. When he did Reeva a 'favour' by giving her friend a lift, he scared Reeva by speeding, and then he justified it by saying it was becvevause her was giving her friend a lift (and because he was hungry). He doesn't come across as the type of guy who likes to do anyone a favour, apart from himself.

BBM

I don't believe he even had a minute interest in one of Reeva's contracts, nevermind an interest in making sure everything was in Reeva's best interests. I call BS. I don't believe him.

He should wash his mouth with soap each and every time before he closes it, as every time he opens it, he spews garbage. IMO.

 

[Suthrnqt]

I'd like to know exactly what changes OP made to that contract. I don't think he was 'helping' her at all. Maybe there was something in it that riled him and he wanted her to change it because something in it upset him. Maybe that's why they argued? Out of the two of them, Reeva seemed the most intelligent by a long shot, and I doubt very much she'd have needed (or asked for) his help with her own contract. When he did Reeva a 'favour' by giving her friend a lift, he scared Reeva by speeding, and then he justified it by saying it was because her was giving her friend a lift (and because he was hungry). He doesn't come across as the type of guy who likes to do anyone a favour, apart from himself.

I've often wondered if the contract
was an issue. Maybe, total speculation here, he wanted changes and she didn't agree with the changes. Also, does anyone here think he might have been a little jealous of Reeva? By all accounts, her star was rising. Besides his Olympic success, what had he done lately?
I am curious to know, how did he earn a living...sponsorships? Did he receive an allowance from the family? I know it has been stated that OP had a financial meeting on the morning of Feb. 13th. I am speculating from Reeva's texts later in the day, that the meeting did not go well. Do y'all think he was going broke?
Just some musings from my overactive mind. MOO


ETA: I was thinking some of these issues might have been what started the argument that the neighbors heard. And things escalated from there and ended with OP shooting Reeva. Just another theory. :moo:

 

[Harmony 2]

The thread is starting to veer toward a general discussion thread... Please stick with theories about what happened that night... thanks

 

[Cherwell]

Is the general discussion topic going to be reopened soon? I'm afraid I don't have time to follow multiple threads.

 

[soozieqtips]

Is the general discussion topic going to be reopened soon? I'm afraid I don't have time to follow multiple threads.

I'd like to know too. It's been almost 3 days since it was closed!

I miss the general discussion.

 

[toevlugsoord]

I'd like to know too. It's been almost 3 days since it was closed!

I miss the general discussion.

Me too!
I literally just joined here today and I'm really eager to post a link to a documentary with Reeva's parents. Has it been posted? "Why Did Oscar Pistorius Kill Our Daughter?" is the name.

 

[Karmady]

If you attend a college in South Africa you get a diploma, not a degree.

Reeva earned a Bachelor of Law degree in 2005 at Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University in Port Elizabeth.

http://www.biography.com/people/reeva-steenkamp-21129547

Liesbeth, your post says that one both does and does not get a degree from college in SA. I would think it's just like the US where you receive a diploma to memorialize that a degree has been conferred upon you. In the case of law in SA, it's an LLB (with an LLM being the Masters degree), as I understand what I've read about it.

That said, my point was that a law degree in SA is a four year undergraduate degree rather than a professional degree conferred after 4 years of undergrad and three years of law school.

 

[liesbeth]

Liesbeth, your post says that one both does and does not get a degree from college in SA. I would think it's just like the US where you receive a diploma to memorialize that a degree has been conferred upon you. In the case of law in SA, it's an LLB (with an LLM being the Masters degree), as I understand what I've read about it.

That said, my point was that a law degree in SA is a four year undergraduate degree rather than a professional degree conferred after 4 years of undergrad and three years of law school.

I'm sorry, Karmady. I'll try to explain it better. The South African education system is not same as in the U.S. and South African colleges and universities are not the same as those in the U.S.

Here a college focuses more on technical and practical training in a career. In South Africa when you finish your training at a college you receive a diploma, never a degree. In South Africa the word "degree" is exclusively used to describe the qualification you receive from a university, for instance a Bachelor/Magister or Doctorate in Law.

In order to qualify for acceptance to a South African university, you have to achieve a certain academic pass rate in your thirteenth year of school. You also have to pass the university entrance exam. And in many courses you also have to pass a rigorous selection process before you are accepted to university.

Hope that helps.

 

[james83]

Is the general discussion topic going to be reopened soon? I'm afraid I don't have time to follow multiple threads.

Anyone know why it was closed?, i wasn't around on that day so i'm declaring myself blameless, lol.

 

[BritsKate]

Anyone know why it was closed?, i wasn't around on that day so i'm declaring myself blameless, lol.

All I know is timeouts were issued, and the thread closed, shortly after it was suggested that Michelle Burger perjured herself solely in order to secure a conviction against OP and someone else was suggesting a scenario not supported by any evidence presented. Whether that's related, I don't know.

It isn't unusual when a case becomes a forum that GD is closed. They want us to move onto topical threads and create a new thread if needed for something that isn't already covered. I never quite know where to post myself. They may, assuming everyone is on their best behaviour, at least open a general discussion thread to discuss testimony once the trial starts back up. These are sometimes locked once court is dark but with the international aspect of this trial, I don't know. For that matter, they may well decide to reopen a generic general discussion before then. lease:

*Sorry for the O/T!*

 

[jay-jay]

I quite like the discussion being separated out, in a way, because I found that the general discussion thread became too confusing with so many different aspects of the case being debated and then what seemed to happen was that because the threads were so long, and made it more difficult to refer back to various important points that had previously been made, it just seemed to end up with posters talking around in circles whereas I'm not finding that on the separate threads. That's JMO though :truce:

Edit: apologies for the O/T too!

 

[liesbeth]

Definitely not ruling out the possibility that it was a source of disagreement. But I stand by my position that Oscar had more practical knowledge then Reeva did regarding that type of contract. Even if his attorneys handled it, he would have been involved and consulted regarding specifics and advised as to what terms were in his interest or not. Reeva could easily have thought she knew better--especially with her law degree. One of the interesting things to me about the fact pattern in this case is that the hour long yelling earlier in the night was a woman yelling, according to the witnesses.

We've already agreed to disagree about who knew more about contracts. But, as I said before, you make an excellent point by saying that an argument fits the pattern of this case.

I wanted to listen to Mrs. vd Merwe's testimony before I responded to this in more detail.

Mrs. vd Merwe also says she heard a pattern of argument that night. A female voice and then silence then the female voice again. She said she heard the pattern of two people arguing, but she only heard the female voice.

 

[Karmady]

We've already agreed to disagree about who knew more about contracts. But, as I said before, you make an excellent point by saying that an argument fits the pattern of this case.

I wanted to listen to Mrs. vd Merwe's testimony before I responded to this in more detail.

Mrs. vd Merwe also says she heard a pattern of argument that night. A female voice and then silence then the female voice again. She said she heard the pattern of two people arguing, but she only heard the female voice.

Interesting. So either a phone argument or a soft spoken or non-arguing back male (assuming it was Reeva and Oscar)? Which makes no sense given the portraits that have been painted of these two, imo. Someone in another thread suggested that Reeva was intending to leave and that's what caused the whole debacle. I thought that from when I heard her top was on backwards and she had her phone in the toilet. When I imagine this, I imagine her getting busted trying to quietly exit in the middle of the night. I would love to know exactly what was on her phone. jmo

eta: anyone know where her car keys were found?

 

[liesbeth]

Interesting. So either a phone argument or a soft spoken or non-arguing back male (assuming it was Reeva and Oscar)? Which makes no sense given the portraits that have been painted of these two, imo. Someone in another thread suggested that Reeva was intending to leave and that's what caused the whole debacle. I thought that from when I heard her top was on backwards and she had her phone in the toilet. When I imagine this, I imagine her getting busted trying to quietly exit in the middle of the night. I would love to know exactly what was on her phone. jmo

eta: anyone know where her car keys were found?

Or two people arguing. It does fit the pattern. One higher female voice and one lower male voice taking turns. But then Oscar did say he sounds like a woman when he's upset, so for all we know it could have been Oscar's voice she heard that night.

 

[Karmady]

Or two people arguing. It does fit the pattern. One higher female voice and one lower male voice taking turns. But then Oscar did say he sounds like a woman when he's upset, so for all we know it could have been Oscar's voice she heard that night.

So now we believe him lol.

Seriously, though. If a man also was yelling, I think it would be heard.