Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

[geevee]

Personally I always thought it may have something to do with the spare set of door keys kept in the drawer just below the blood spatter/marks/smudge(don't recall what it was identified as) that had been photographed during a previous interview with OP. I'm more interested in what caused the bruises RS had that had been deemed unrelated to the gunshots as per the autopsy.

You know, I wonder why he needed to beat the door down to get her out, he did have the key available, as it was found in the lock on the outside of the door, right? So why was he ripping the panel out of the door with his bare hands at all, only to run and get the key to open it? I don't recall during his testimony, was that ever put to him? And what exactly does 'put to' mean? lol I've never heard the expression before this case.

 

[4MrsB]

You know, I wonder why he needed to beat the door down to get her out, he did have the key available, as it was found in the lock on the outside of the door, right? So why was he ripping the panel out of the door with his bare hands at all, only to run and get the key to open it? I don't recall during his testimony, was that ever put to him? And what exactly does 'put to' mean? lol I've never heard the expression before this case.

The toilet door actually has a key lock on both the inside & the outside of the door.

In Oscar's version of events, he claims that Reeva had locked the toilet door from the inside, using the key and therefore he couldn't get in to help her. (He suggests she was likely using the toilet or just exiting when she heard him scream in the bedroom/entrance to hallway for the intruder to "get the F#%! out" & "Reeva call the police". On hearing this she immediately slammed the toilet door closed & locked it). He therefore had to bash the panels with the cricket bat and after doing so, saw the key on the floor of the toilet area - not in the lock (so it apparently popped out of the lock with all the bashing OR Reeva had it in her hand & dropped it after being shot I guess). So then Oscar said he reached through the broken panel opening and grabbed the key off the floor, inserted it into the outside lock and opened the door.

So that is his version of: (A) why the toilet door panels were broken and torn out & (B) why key found in the outside lock.

Of course....doesn't really touch on WHY all the tiles on wall left of door broken, or WHY metal/SS plate on tub dented in. Not to mention the damage done to bedroom door either.

"I PUT TO YOU"....he's lying.

Regarding the term "put to" . . . I think it's just a phrase/term he uses when getting ready to suggest something. For example: I put to you Mr. Pistorius, that an argument took place & never was there a worry of an intruder in your home.

FYI: that term is oddly catchy. I now find myself wanting to insert that phrase into my everyday speech, from time to time. (Mostly to myself, because if I were to say it to my family they would look at me like I was losing it). When I say it (in my head), I seem to always add the accent too! LOL . . . perhaps I am "losing it". :dunno:

 

[JudgeJudi]

<Respectfully snipped>

"I PUT TO YOU"....he's lying.

Regarding the term "put to" . . . I think it's just a phrase/term he uses when getting ready to suggest something. For example: I put to you Mr. Pistorius, that an argument took place & never was there a worry of an intruder in your home.

FYI: that term is oddly catchy. I now find myself wanting to insert that phrase into my everyday speech, from time to time. (Mostly to myself, because if I were to say it to my family they would look at me like I was losing it). When I say it (in my head), I seem to always add the accent too! LOL . . . perhaps I am "losing it". :dunno:

Yes, it means "I suggest to you that ..." followed by a statement that the following words are true unless the person can give an explanation as to why the statement is incorrect.

 

[Mr Fossil]

This link will bring up every floor plan you could ever want.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...POIK-uAS7toHwCQ&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1090&bih=826

Except the ground floor unfortunately!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Listen to what a criminal defence attorney says as to whether or not OP is guilty (the blonde in the red blouse).

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/08/0...s-be-found-guilty-murder-legal-analysts-weigh

(I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Fox News legal analyst. Fox News is redundant IMO)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Except the ground floor unfortunately!

Sorry. I saw a ground floor plan further down but didn't realise it was a different property. Don't you just hate when that happens? Googled Pistorius ground floor plan and got something totally different in amongst the plans. I'll look again for you.

ETA I've just had a huge look including estate agents etc and couldn't find one either.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Sorry. I saw a ground floor plan further down but didn't realise it was a different property. Don't you just hate when that happens? Googled Pistorius ground floor plan and got something totally different in amongst the plans. I'll look again for you.

Thank you. I've searched high and low for it but to no avail. I'm concentrating on the periods both before 03:00 and after 03:17 as I firmly believe that the phone usage and whereabouts are key to what happened and can show 100% that OP is lying about being asleep and other events of that night. The floor plan will assist in working through his movements during these periods e.g. when he turned the light on in the kitchen (and retrieved the 4949 phone in my version).

 

[Mr Fossil]

I've been trying to figure the model and version of iOS of OP's 0020 iPhone. The iOS version may be important, because it tells us what the phone was and was not capable of.

We know that the white iPhone found in the the bathroom was an iPhone 5 (and that Reeva's phone was a black iPhone 4). From a little sleuthing I've figured that the iPhone 5 was the 64GB version, model MD663. The iPhone 5 was released by Apple in September 2012 along with iOS 6.

We know from Moller's evidence that the Blackberries ceased to be used some 2-3 months prior to the incident and that they had used the telephone numbers now in the iPhones.

It would seem a reasonable assumption that OP acquired both iPhones at the same time, to replace the Blackberries. If so, it would also be my assumption that he would buy both from new and that they are likely to be the same basic model, with the exception of colour so that that they could be more easily differentiated. This would make the 0020 phone a black iPhone 5 on iOS 6.

Can anyone point to any other firm evidence for the model and/or operating system version on this phone? I'd be careful with newspaper reports about the phones because generally it's pretty easy to prove them to be inaccurate (no surprises there).

 

[kittychi]

The toilet door actually has a key lock on both the inside & the outside of the door.

In Oscar's version of events, he claims that Reeva had locked the toilet door from the inside, using the key and therefore he couldn't get in to help her. (He suggests she was likely using the toilet or just exiting when she heard him scream in the bedroom/entrance to hallway for the intruder to "get the F#%! out" & "Reeva call the police". On hearing this she immediately slammed the toilet door closed & locked it). He therefore had to bash the panels with the cricket bat and after doing so, saw the key on the floor of the toilet area - not in the lock (so it apparently popped out of the lock with all the bashing OR Reeva had it in her hand & dropped it after being shot I guess). So then Oscar said he reached through the broken panel opening and grabbed the key off the floor, inserted it into the outside lock and opened the door.

So that is his version of: (A) why the toilet door panels were broken and torn out & (B) why key found in the outside lock.

Of course....doesn't really touch on WHY all the tiles on wall left of door broken, or WHY metal/SS plate on tub dented in. Not to mention the damage done to bedroom door either.

"I PUT TO YOU"....he's lying.

Regarding the term "put to" . . . I think it's just a phrase/term he uses when getting ready to suggest something. For example: I put to you Mr. Pistorius, that an argument took place & never was there a worry of an intruder in your home.

FYI: that term is oddly catchy. I now find myself wanting to insert that phrase into my everyday speech, from time to time. (Mostly to myself, because if I were to say it to my family they would look at me like I was losing it). When I say it (in my head), I seem to always add the accent too! LOL . . . perhaps I am "losing it". :dunno:

BBM: Yes and the one I like is "Am I right?" A very polite way to make a point, IMO

 

[Val1]

The toilet door actually has a key lock on both the inside & the outside of the door.

In Oscar's version of events, he claims that Reeva had locked the toilet door from the inside, using the key and therefore he couldn't get in to help her. (He suggests she was likely using the toilet or just exiting when she heard him scream in the bedroom/entrance to hallway for the intruder to "get the F#%! out" & "Reeva call the police". On hearing this she immediately slammed the toilet door closed & locked it). He therefore had to bash the panels with the cricket bat and after doing so, saw the key on the floor of the toilet area - not in the lock (so it apparently popped out of the lock with all the bashing OR Reeva had it in her hand & dropped it after being shot I guess). So then Oscar said he reached through the broken panel opening and grabbed the key off the floor, inserted it into the outside lock and opened the door.

So that is his version of: (A) why the toilet door panels were broken and torn out & (B) why key found in the outside lock.

Of course....doesn't really touch on WHY all the tiles on wall left of door broken, or WHY metal/SS plate on tub dented in. Not to mention the damage done to bedroom door either.

"I PUT TO YOU"....he's lying.

Regarding the term "put to" . . . I think it's just a phrase/term he uses when getting ready to suggest something. For example: I put to you Mr. Pistorius, that an argument took place & never was there a worry of an intruder in your home.

FYI: that term is oddly catchy. I now find myself wanting to insert that phrase into my everyday speech, from time to time. (Mostly to myself, because if I were to say it to my family they would look at me like I was losing it). When I say it (in my head), I seem to always add the accent too! LOL . . . perhaps I am "losing it". :dunno:

bbm1 - I suggest it got pushed out by his spare key, when he realized he needed to open the door properly to drag RS out of there and perhaps he even did find the "other" key(was there evidence of two?) after he got in there, though I suggest there wasn't one since I don't recall seeing any blood on the key in the door or even any evidence to support his claim.
bbm2 - I suggest all but pulling out the door panels of that was done before he shot her. The panels afterward would make sense if you're trying to make it look like you "had" to(didn't have a spare key and that the door was indeed locked), in order to make sure the person wasn't still a threat...oops, I mean if you're trying to save their life after shooting them through the head.
bbm3 - I suggest you're correct.

 

[Val1]

Thank you. I've searched high and low for it but to no avail. I'm concentrating on the periods both before 03:00 and after 03:17 as I firmly believe that the phone usage and whereabouts are key to what happened and can show 100% that OP is lying about being asleep and other events of that night. The floor plan will assist in working through his movements during these periods e.g. when he turned the light on in the kitchen (and retrieved the 4949 phone in my version).

The closest I've ever seen of the ground floor area was in the video walkthrough posted the other day, other than the odd pics from previous interviews.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thank you. I've searched high and low for it but to no avail. I'm concentrating on the periods both before 03:00 and after 03:17 as I firmly believe that the phone usage and whereabouts are key to what happened and can show 100% that OP is lying about being asleep and other events of that night. The floor plan will assist in working through his movements during these periods e.g. when he turned the light on in the kitchen (and retrieved the 4949 phone in my version).

Well Fossil, that was quite a mission and I still couldn't get a floor plan. The best I can do is a very short video of the kitchen and a number of photos.

Kitchen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wU6ihhHlhM

Photos showing OP just inside the front door with the garage to his right, sitting area under the stairs, kitchen, 2 of living room, dining room

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?237856-Graphics-and-Diagrams-**NO-DISCUSSION**

I've really tried but this is the best I can come up with.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Here's an example of OP's 0020 usage which I have a problem correlating with the evidence.

The facts

His cousin states in his witness statement given on 18 Feb 2013 that &#8220;at around 20:10&#8221; he and OP &#8220;exchanged various messages on ... WhatsApp&#8221;, that OP called him &#8220;at 20:25&#8221; and the call ended &#8220;at approximately 20:45&#8221;.

OP states in his EIC that &#8220;At a point I was texting my Cousin back and forth and I thought maybe I should just phone him and I called him.&#8221;

He confirms this to Nel in cross examination, stating "I was surfing on my iPad, my lady, umm, and more or less at the same time I was busy texting my cousin, err, Mr Binge, and later in the evening, whilst I was still on the bed I made a phone call to Mr Binge".

In his EIC he also talks about changing position on the bed between texting and phoning (although this seems to state a different sequence, with the call being earlier). "Umm, whilst him and I were on the phone I, I was lying down on the bed, umm, earlier in the evening ... but whilst I texted him I s..., I laid down, err, at the foot of the bed."

The 0020 phone usage shows the following:

18:47:40 - 18:48:57 GPRS connection (77 secs)
18:47:59 - 18:48:35 Call to Carl (36 secs)
20:24:49 - 20:54:04 GPRS connection (1,755 secs)
20:25:07 - 20:54:04 Call to cousin (1,737)

The call times and durations are 100% accurate, the GPRS times and durations are derived from the phone usage chart. There is no activity on the phone between 18:48:36 and 20:24:49.

The problem

There is no GPRS connection covering the WhatsApp 'conversation' from about 20:10 to 20:25. Even allowing for the GPRS connection ending exactly when the call ends (which is unlikely) there is only an 18 second overlap. And even if I have misread the GPRS connection time and it reads 1,799 seconds, that's still only a maximum of 62 seconds for the text conversation back and forth whilst OP surfs the net (I don't think I have misread it, it definitely starts after 20:20 and it's curious that it aligns so well with the call duration).

He can't be using Reeva's phone because he says she's using it (and it's unlikely that he'd have a WhatsApp conversation with his cousin using someone else's WhatsApp id).

He can't be using his 4949 phone as it's off the air and has no GPRS connections during this period (and is in the kitchen in my opinion). This would also have to be a different WhatsApp id as one WhatsApp id can only be registered to one device.

He can't be using his iPad because WhatsApp doesn't run on the iPad (actually, it can be made to but I believe it would be beyond OP to figure how to do this as it's not straight forward).

 

[Val1]

You know, I wonder why he needed to beat the door down to get her out, he did have the key available, as it was found in the lock on the outside of the door, right? So why was he ripping the panel out of the door with his bare hands at all, only to run and get the key to open it? I don't recall during his testimony, was that ever put to him? And what exactly does 'put to' mean? lol I've never heard the expression before this case.

Personally, I believe the "beating" was done before he shot her and then he pulled the panels out after to ensure the threat had been nullified before he actually opened it(gun still had bullets and was ready to fire). Can you imagine if he'd just opened it and the threat was still mobile enough to get past him and out of the house? I can imagine he also had used the bat at that point to make sure the threat wasn't going anywhere, ergo the bloody tip of it. As for getting the key afterwards, that would explain the blood above the bedstand if he'd used the bat to poke at the threat and had accidentally got some blood transfer when withdrawing it, as well as why the key in the outside of the door appeared to not have been in the bloody mess on the toilet room floor. Umm, I put it to you that the expression is just another way to pose a hypothetical situation, iows not proven.

 

[Mr Fossil]

The closest I've ever seen of the ground floor area was in the video walkthrough posted the other day, other than the odd pics from previous interviews.

Well Fossil, that was quite a mission and I still couldn't get a floor plan. The best I can do is a very short video of the kitchen and a number of photos.

Kitchen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wU6ihhHlhM

Photos showing OP just inside the front door with the garage to his right, sitting area under the stairs, kitchen, 2 of living room, dining room

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?237856-Graphics-and-Diagrams-**NO-DISCUSSION**

I've really tried but this is the best I can come up with.

Thank you both. Like you, I have searched everywhere and have probably covered the same ground ... I'm amazed that it's so difficult to find.

 

[Val1]

Here's an example of OP's 0020 usage which I have a problem correlating with the evidence.

The facts

His cousin states in his witness statement given on 18 Feb 2013 that &#8220;at around 20:10&#8221; he and OP &#8220;exchanged various messages on ... WhatsApp&#8221;, that OP called him &#8220;at 20:25&#8221; and the call ended &#8220;at approximately 20:45&#8221;.

OP states in his EIC that &#8220;At a point I was texting my Cousin back and forth and I thought maybe I should just phone him and I called him.&#8221;

He confirms this to Nel in cross examination, stating "I was surfing on my iPad, my lady, umm, and more or less at the same time I was busy texting my cousin, err, Mr Binge, and later in the evening, whilst I was still on the bed I made a phone call to Mr Binge".

In his EIC he also talks about changing position on the bed between texting and phoning (although this seems to state a different sequence, with the call being earlier). "Umm, whilst him and I were on the phone I, I was lying down on the bed, umm, earlier in the evening ... but whilst I texted him I s..., I laid down, err, at the foot of the bed."

The 0020 phone usage shows the following:

18:47:40 - 18:48:57 GPRS connection (77 secs)
18:47:59 - 18:48:36 Call to Carl (36 secs)
20:24:49 - 20:54:04 GPRS connection (1,755 secs)
20:25:07 - 20:54:04 Call to cousin (1,737)

The call times and durations are 100% accurate, the GPRS times and durations are derived from the phone usage chart. There is no activity on the phone between 18:48:36 and 20:24:49.

The problem

There is no GPRS connection covering the WhatsApp 'conversation' from about 20:10 to 20:25. Even allowing for the GPRS connection ending exactly when the call ends (which is unlikely) there is only an 18 second overlap. And even if I have misread the GPRS connection time and it reads 1,799 seconds, that's still only a maximum of 62 seconds for the text conversation back and forth whilst OP surfs the net (I don't think I have misread it, it definitely starts after 20:20 and it's curious that is aligns so well with the call duration).

He can't be using Reeva's phone because he says she's using it (and it's unlikely that he'd have a WhatsApp conversation with his cousin using someone else's WhatsApp id).

He can't be using his 4949 phone as it's off the air and has no GPRS connections during this period (and is in the kitchen in my opinion). This would also have to be a different WhatsApp id as one WhatsApp id can only be registered to one device.

He can't be using his iPad because WhatsApp doesn't run on the iPad (actually, it can be made to but I believe it would be beyond OP to figure how to do this as it's not straight forward).

Hmm, what time did he google that *advertiser censored* site? Was he sharing it with his cousin and then doing a followup conversation about it later while RS cleaned up the dinner prep and got them the hot drinks? Maybe she overheard something she shouldn't have... and that's what had to be scrubbed?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe OT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...n_n_5708921.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

Being Objectified May Be Linked To Sexual Coercion In Romantic Relationships, Study Says

After analyzing the survey results, Ramsey found that among the men, the more they thought about the way their partner looked, the more likely they were to pressure her sexually. Additionally, the more these men focused on their partner's looks, the more they scrutinized her physically and felt shame about her appearance -- factors that also correlated with sexual pressure and coercion.

Overall, the researchers found only a moderate level of objectification and low rates of sexual coercion, but the link between these two variables was statistically significant: The men who objectified their partners were also the men who sexually pressured and coerced their partners.

As for the women, those who reported that their partners stared at their bodies frequently were more likely to believe that "it's a woman's role to satisfy her partner sexually." They were also more likely to have experienced sexual coercion in the form of violence or other behavior-controlling mechanisms. One such coercive practice is "commitment manipulation," which researchers measured by offering statements like "My partner hinted that if I loved him I would have sex with him" and asking the women how often that had happened to them.

While reading this article I thought of OP/RS ... maybe there is something ongoing in this direction, when OP is always too attracted to the appearance of "the blondes" with model look.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Hmm, what time did he google that *advertiser censored* site? Was he sharing it with his cousin and then doing a followup conversation about it later while RS cleaned up the dinner prep and got them the hot drinks? Maybe she overheard something she shouldn't have... and that's what had to be scrubbed?

18:29:58 for no more than 48 seconds, and that includes googling it, going to the site and playing it at 18:30:25. He's googling autotrader at 18:30:46.

I believe if anything was 'scrubbed' (or doctored) it was the iPhone activity post-22:30.

 

[JudgeJudi]

OP reminds me of Jekyll and Hyde. He also reminds me of The Picture of Dorian Gray. Remember what OP looked like before the execution? Just look at the difference in his face now - fourth photo from the bottom of this link.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/oscar-trial-day-28-may-9-wolmarans/

Talk about if looks could kill.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just to move on to something a bit different that hasn't received a lot of attention. I'd like to canvass the subject of the bedroom door. There was a reasonable amount of damage plus a "bullet" hole of some description. I'd like to suggest a possible scenario. They were both downstairs arguing. Reeva had had enough and said she was "getting out of here" and headed upstairs. OP "always wins" so he started off after her. As soon as she saw this, she had no way of retreating back downstairs so rushed into the bedroom and locked the door. OP reached the top, was now in a rage, bashed the door with the cricket bat, and then saw the air rifle which had a silencer on it so he used that to shoot through the door. Meanwhile she was hurriedly getting into her jeans but he broke through the door and ripped them off her. She grabbed her shorts and top and raced for the toilet, locking the door behind her. He pursued her shouting "Get the f*ck out of my house", and we all know what happened next. Any comments? I'm sure there could be lots of scenarios.