Thought and theories on Jeremy

[norest4thewicked]

I can guaranty that if the 911 call is released there will be people that find fault with Jeremy. Every single statement he has made shows deception or guilt to some. I doubt that the 911 call would be any different.

And I guarantee that if there was actual videotape of Jeremy throwing a bucket off of a bridge, there would be some that argue that he was disposing of some rags from the work site. That's just the way it is....

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM

Did I say that Jeremy was a baby killer or a dead baby disposer? I didn't. So, how can you say that he isn't? I don't believe that any of us were there that night and none of us know what is in anyone elses minds or hearts.

That is why I prefaced with IMHO...I didn't say what others opinions were; I just stated my own. IMHO I don't believe he is a baby-killer or a dead baby disposer. IMHO What others think is their opinion, not mine.

As for none of us knowing, that is true. We can't know Deborah is a killer or caused an accident to happen through omission or comission. There are not enough facts known yet. IMHO

I have no control over others' opinions, only my own.

 

[melissasmom]

And I guarantee that if there was actual videotape of Jeremy throwing a bucket off of a bridge, there would be some that argue that he was disposing of some rags from the work site. That's just the way it is....

In fairness, that is REALLY an insult to some here. Just because there are those here who don't turn every single thing that occured in this case to something nefarious, does not mean they can not see things for themselves. NOR does it mean that people are trying to "make excuses" for everything. People who are not jumping to conclusions in this case normally are simply trying to show an alternative example, or a reasonable explanation for things. Every single bit of information that we have gleaned DOES NOT have a sinister connotation, and there are some here who try to make it so.

JMO

 

[norest4thewicked]

IMHO

It is my opinion that since the call hasn't been released that there are no known facts as to voice inflection, phrasing or any other nuance of that 911 call. IMHO

fwiw, when our son was an infant I found him limp in his crib, not responsive. I grabbed him and the cell phone, calling 911 as I went to the front lawn to wait for help. My total info on the 911 call was , 'this is Jacie, +++++'s wife, the baby is unconscious, please hurry.'

LE found me sitting on the front lawn rocking our son, I don't remember any of what happened next until we found out it was a kidney stone [I had had them during pregnancy and our son had one at a few months old.]

A 911 call CAN be descriptive or it MAY be just a few words. IMHO

O/T but...that had to be terrifying for you. One of my daughters had a seizure when she was a baby and I was absolutely terrified!

As far as 911 calls being descriptive or just a few words, you are right. I was a 911 dispatcher for many years and people were very strange when calling 911. Some of our worst calls were people calling in to complain about neighbor's barking dogs. You would pick up the phone and say - "911-where is your emergency" and you would year nothing but screaming. Some were so frantic that you had to assess the situation to calm them enough to hear that they were calling about a barking dog instead of being violently stabbed. On the other hand, I can remember a night when a man called 911 and there was silence on the other end. You could hear him breathing and then, calmly and softly, he said that he had killed his entire family and was going to kill himself. He then gave his address and hung up. When officers got there, he had killed his wife, his two small children and himself.

I can give many examples of this, people just aren't predictable in a 911 call.

 

[hambirg]

Jeremy is not a media-savvy guy; he is just a Dad who has lost a baby and has other babies to worry about. He was concerned about the lights, it costs money to have them on. He was concerned about the window/screen, again things that cost money to be repaired. He is concerned about the phones, the fact that the bill wasn't paid, money again, meant that there was no way to contact the outside world, in an emergency, AND replacing them would cost more money that he had to work hard to obtain. He is just a guy who thinks in basic terms, he is not a criminal mastermind.

I totally understand why he said 'so we couldn't call 911'; he was at work and came home to a disaster, his first response is call for help. Phones are missng. He called 911, he didn't, IMHO, take his baby's lifeless body and throw it in the river and he didn't 'hatch' a plan to cover up his baby's death. If Lisa did die in that home by accident or any one of the theories being floated that involves Deborah, it is my opinion that we would have seen a fight between them and there would have not been the concerted response that we saw. Jeremy fought to get his son by RR, why would he not fight for Lisa?

BBM1. . .see that is simply NOT true. JI had a phone in his pocket! :banghead: Their neighbors, who they are surrounded by, have phones. That's why that statement doesn't make any sense to me. It's a qualifier for a reason.

BBM2. . .I agree. That's why I am starting to think that JI is the responsible one.

MOO

 

[norest4thewicked]

In fairness, that is REALLY an insult to some here. Just because there are those here who don't turn every single thing that occured in this case to something nefarious, does not mean they can not see things for themselves. NOR does it mean that people are trying to "make excuses" for everything. People who are not jumping to conclusions in this case normally are simply trying to show an alternative example, or a reasonable explanation for things. Every single bit of information that we have gleaned DOES NOT have a sinister connotation, and there are some here who try to make it so.

You must have missed RANCH's post. I was responding to that, nothing more. Please don't try to make this personal.

 

[Jacie Estes]

In fairness, that is REALLY an insult to some here. Just because there are those here who don't turn every single thing that occured in this case to something nefarious, does not mean they can not see things for themselves. NOR does it mean that people are trying to "make excuses" for everything. People who are not jumping to conclusions in this case normally are simply trying to show an alternative example, or a reasonable explanation for things. Every single bit of information that we have gleaned DOES NOT have a sinister connotation, and there are some here who try to make it so.

I agree; I am not doing a McCarthy...looking for Communists hiding behind every bush or under every bed. I have my opinions and, like your post, they are my opinions. This is a forum and we can discuss our belief.

thanks for this post, Jacie

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think the window is very important to Jeremy. He mentioned it on the 911 call, he's mentioned it interviews even after LE determined that it was virtually impossible for someone to have gained entry there.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM1. . .see that is simply NOT true. JI had a phone in his pocket! :banghead: Their neighbors, who they are surrounded by, have phones. That's why that statement doesn't make any sense to me. It's a qualifier for a reason.

BBM2. . .I agree. That's why I am starting to think that JI is the responsible one.

MOO

IMHO He just got home from a double shift, he is tired and he finds his daughter missing. He is thinking local, not global; local meaning the phones in HIS house are gone, phones he will have to work more to replace.

We didn't see Jeremy with scratches on his face, we did not see Deborah with a black eye or any physical damage; this leads me to believe there was no altercation between Deborah and Jeremy because Lisa was missing. IMHO

I do not believe that either Deborah or Jeremy is responsible. IMHO

 

[iamnotagolem]

IMHO He just got home from a double shift, he is tired and he finds his daughter missing. He is thinking local, not global; local meaning the phones in HIS house are gone, phones he will have to work more to replace.

We didn't see Jeremy with scratches on his face, we did not see Deborah with a black eye or any physical damage; this leads me to believe there was no altercation between Deborah and Jeremy because Lisa was missing. IMHO

I do not believe that either Deborah or Jeremy is responsible. IMHO

BBM, I don't understand this at all. Why would they fight? Over what?

 

[RANCH]

I think the window is very important to Jeremy. He mentioned it on the 911 call, he's mentioned it interviews even after LE determined that it was virtually impossible for someone to have gained entry there.

Have you found the link for that yet? I may be wrong but I don't remember LE releasing that information. If you find it, lets put it in the fact vs rumor sticky. Until then I'm afraid I must disregard it.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Have you found the link for that yet? I may be wrong but I don't remember LE releasing that information. If you find it, lets put it in the fact vs rumor sticky. Until then I'm afraid I must disregard it.

That Jeremy mentioned the window in the 911 call? No they haven't released the call but the dispatcher mentioned the window. I'm assuming she didn't just make it up.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM, I don't understand this at all. Why would they fight? Over what?

Lisa being missing and/or having to negotiate hiding her body IF she passed in the house and Deborah knew about her passing. IMHO

A woman wouldn't just calmly say, 'Oh and while you were at work the baby died, how do we get rid of her body? Got any ideas, hon.' THAT type of statement would cause an uproar, a fight. IMHO.

 

[RANCH]

That Jeremy mentioned the window in the 911 call? No they haven't released the call but the dispatcher mentioned the window. I'm assuming she didn't just make it up.

I was referring to the comment about LE saying that it's virtually impossible for someone to have gained entry thru the window. You said yesterday in the window and lights thread that you would look for a link. I haven't seen one yet.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Lisa being missing and/or having to negotiate hiding her body IF she passed in the house and Deborah knew about her passing. IMHO

A woman wouldn't just calmly say, 'Oh and while you were at work the baby died, how do we get rid of her body? Got any ideas, hon.' THAT type of statement would cause an uproar, a fight. IMHO.

Were they a violent couple? Were they known to fight? Did they frequently have physical fights?

Unless they were already used to fighting, I don't see how this scenario would automatically lead to a fight, unless that was normal for them.

While I agree, it'd be hard to understand telling a spouse your child is dead and going straight into cover up mode. If that is what happened, then I think there is a lot more to the story.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I was referring to the comment about LE saying that it's virtually impossible for someone to have gained entry thru the window. You said yesterday in the window and lights thread that you would look for a link. I haven't seen one yet.

I'll post on the window thread, to keep this thread on topic.

 

[hambirg]

Lisa being missing and/or having to negotiate hiding her body IF she passed in the house and Deborah knew about her passing. IMHO

A woman wouldn't just calmly say, 'Oh and while you were at work the baby died, how do we get rid of her body? Got any ideas, hon.' THAT type of statement would cause an uproar, a fight. IMHO.

BBM. . .maybe DB didn't know.

As to the rest, I agree. That is why I suspect JI is the one in the know.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

IMHO

It is my opinion that since the call hasn't been released that there are no known facts as to voice inflection, phrasing or any other nuance of that 911 call. IMHO

fwiw, when our son was an infant I found him limp in his crib, not responsive. I grabbed him and the cell phone, calling 911 as I went to the front lawn to wait for help. My total info on the 911 call was , 'this is Jacie, +++++'s wife, the baby is unconscious, please hurry.'

LE found me sitting on the front lawn rocking our son, I don't remember any of what happened next until we found out it was a kidney stone [I had had them during pregnancy and our son had one at a few months old.]

A 911 call CAN be descriptive or it MAY be just a few words. IMHO

:seeya: I totally understand what you are saying here -- BUT -- the BIG difference between your case and Baby Lisa is that you had your infant son in your arms !

Baby Lisa was reported ? ? ? :waitasec: We don't know WHAT ACTUALLY was said to the 9-1-1 operator ...

WHAT did Jeremy say when he made the 9-1-1 call :

- My daughter/baby is "missing"
- My daughter was "kidnapped"
- My daughter is "not here"
- My daughter is "not in her crib"
- My daughter ...

All of the above have a very different meanings and it TELLS LE something -- otherwise -- WHY would LE RECORD and SAVE 9-1-1 calls ? And they are USED in Courtrooms all the time ...

JMO and MOO ...

 

[hambirg]

IMHO He just got home from a double shift, he is tired and he finds his daughter missing. He is thinking local, not global; local meaning the phones in HIS house are gone, phones he will have to work more to replace.

We didn't see Jeremy with scratches on his face, we did not see Deborah with a black eye or any physical damage; this leads me to believe there was no altercation between Deborah and Jeremy because Lisa was missing. IMHO

I do not believe that either Deborah or Jeremy is responsible. IMHO

I don't think JI would be worried about having to replace phones if he just discovered his baby is missing. . ."OMG! My baby has been kidnapped! Dang, now I'm going to have to replace our phones." That doesn't make any sense.

And yes, there was no fight. Why wasn't there a fight about the wine if JI was so concerned about money? If I was in his shoes, that would have pizzed me off.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Missouri Sunshine Law excepts 911 calls in the case of criminal investigations. Period. Whether it's a high profile case like Baby Lisa or you call 911 to say my purse was stolen from my car. Doesn't matter what's said. They are exempt.

Police in Missouri are loathe to release them because they don't want to set precedent.

So doesn't matter what's in MOST states. What matters is Missouri. Period.

:seeya: TY -- I did not know the Missouri law on 9-1-1 calls ... but there are exceptions to every rule ...

JMO ... but when charges are brought and this case goes to trial, IF there is anything different in that 9-1-1 call than what JI and DB told authorities ... that call will most likely be played for the jury ...

:waitasec: Now that I think about it, they are going to need quite a number of exhibits at trial to assist in keeping track of the MANY and VARIOUS VERSIONS of JI and DB's "STORIES" ...

So adding the 9-1-1 call to the current Version Number ... I lost track counting the versions ...

MOO ...