Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

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^ that particular show was only running until the 25th.

If MB did not arrive with DM and drove from home to be there, it would have taken her about 1/2 hr.
 
^ that particular show was only running until the 25th.

If MB did not arrive with DM and drove from home to be there, it would have taken her about 1/2 hr.
You're correct Snooper- that show was only running to the 25th, and yes MB could have driven there in half an hour or so-but did the "ex" drive there or had they maintained some form of a relationship and were just hanging out together that night...or were they getting back together? All interesting food for thought. Makes me wonder about CN and her relationship with DM during his relationship with LB. Maybe CN was cool with an "open" relationship? MOO
 
I noticed that CN's court date has now been set up to coincide with DM and MS's. I'm also thinking that she isn't being too co-operative if they are still against bail and she has to wait for the review of the disclosure to get her bail hearing arranged.

JMO
 
I noticed that CN's court date has now been set up to coincide with DM and MS's. I'm also thinking that she isn't being too co-operative if they are still against bail and she has to wait for the review of the disclosure to get her bail hearing arranged.

JMO

Maybe it has to do with this:

Noudga, who has no criminal record, will apply for bail. And to run her bail hearing — which will presumably take place months, if not years, before Smich and Millard's trials — the Crown will have to lay out the entire murder case against them.

"When somebody's charged with accessory after the fact to murder, you have to prove there was a murder," says Leitch.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4462499-clairmont-christina-noudga-appears-in-hamilton-court/
 
Maybe it has to do with this:

Noudga, who has no criminal record, will apply for bail. And to run her bail hearing — which will presumably take place months, if not years, before Smich and Millard's trials — the Crown will have to lay out the entire murder case against them.

"When somebody's charged with accessory after the fact to murder, you have to prove there was a murder," says Leitch.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4462499-clairmont-christina-noudga-appears-in-hamilton-court/

Yes, I'm aware of that and pointed it out when we were discussing why a bail hearing is good for the defense, but not so good for the Crown. But that's only because the Crown was/is going to oppose bail. If they didn't oppose bail, I don't believe they would have to go through that since they wouldn't have to show any reason why she should not be released on bail. If she was co-operating with the Crown, why would they oppose her bail? Especially if all she is being charged with is being an accessory a few days later?

From your link:

The court heard she will be kept in custody pending a bail application, which the Crown will likely oppose, says deputy Crown attorney Tony Leitch, who is prosecuting Tim's case.

JMO
 
Yes, I'm aware of that and pointed it out when we were discussing why a bail hearing is good for the defense, but not so good for the Crown. But that's only because the Crown was/is going to oppose bail. If they didn't oppose bail, I don't believe they would have to go through that since they wouldn't have to show any reason why she should not be released on bail. If she was co-operating with the Crown, why would they oppose her bail? Especially if all she is being charged with is being an accessory a few days later?

From your link:



JMO

Perhaps someone can help me..I am honestly a little confused. I thought that the Crown was obligated to provide the accused (meaning DM and MS in my question here) all they had "whenever" they asked for it. If that is the case, then why would anything they had to present at a bail hearing for CN be letting a cat out of the bag?

TIA for helping me understand this...
 
I am seeing this a bit differently.

Police and the Crown would already have "tipped their hand" with convincing evidence to get a warrant signed by a judge in order to arrest CN in the first place . Arrest warrants are not approved on a whim.

I think a bail hearing has more to do with whether CN is a risk to run , or a risk to society

I dont think they have to prove murder at that point , I dont think anyone questions the fact there was a murder.
 
Anyone else have any nagging thoughts about the firearms question ?

Apparently LE have determined that the gun used in the death of WM was "trafficked" and "illegal" , and purchased by DM some years earlier

I would expect it was a handgun , because legal long rifles are easy to obtain .

But if DM was trying to stage a suicide , he would have to leave the gun there as part of the staging .... yet he would know it would bring a lot of police inquiry as to the origins of the gun , and DM himself was the origin .... I cannot comprehend him doing that unless he is dumber than a stick ... it would raise too many red flags

And by the sounds of WM , I doubt he would own an illegal handgun or rifle .... it would be out of character .

I would expect LE kept the gun these years pondering its origins , thus the suicide investigation was still "partly open"

If indeed it was DM's gun , I expect he would have tried it out a few times , what better place for target practice than his farm .... maybe LE found old shell casings from that same gun when they searched the farm .... they had metal detectors everywhere.

Plus the fact DM bought a holster on ebay ... I think it was AnnBro who researched that.

We do not know how TB was killed , but it if it was a gun it would have to be a concealed-carry handgun , but it could not be the same one used on WM
 
Anyone else have any nagging thoughts about the firearms question ?

Apparently LE have determined that the gun used in the death of WM was "trafficked" and "illegal" , and purchased by DM some years earlier

I would expect it was a handgun , because legal long rifles are easy to obtain .

But if DM was trying to stage a suicide , he would have to leave the gun there as part of the staging .... yet he would know it would bring a lot of police inquiry as to the origins of the gun , and DM himself was the origin .... I cannot comprehend him doing that unless he is dumber than a stick ... it would raise too many red flags

And by the sounds of WM , I doubt he would own an illegal handgun or rifle .... it would be out of character .

I would expect LE kept the gun these years pondering its origins , thus the suicide investigation was still "partly open"

If indeed it was DM's gun , I expect he would have tried it out a few times , what better place for target practice than his farm .... maybe LE found old shell casings from that same gun when they searched the farm .... they had metal detectors everywhere.

Plus the fact DM bought a holster on ebay ... I think it was AnnBro who researched that.

We do not know how TB was killed , but it if it was a gun it would have to be a concealed-carry handgun , but it could not be the same one used on WM
Arnie, there's always the possibility that DM staged WM's murder-shooting him with one gun and then setting it up to look like WM shot himself with one of his own thinking that his own acting skills and staging abilities would suffice. IMO, the gun that TPS found at the scene of WM's death wouldn't have been illegal or it would have been flagged at that point, unless of course, DM was able to spin a tail of a man tortured by a financial pressure resorting to grabbing a gun from gun dealers and TPS bought it..hook,line and sinker? Doesn't sit right with me.
Even if DM bought 2 identical guns, there would be the risk that they would get traced back to DM.
IMHO, DM shot WM with the trafficked gun and set it up to look like WM shot himself with one that WM owned legally, feeling confident that they would never really investigate a tragic suicide. If he could get the body released and cremated, he would be home free. IMO, the Coroners office may have had a problem with the actual wound, absence of any signs on WM's hands that he had fired the gun etc. Things may not have fit 100% into the suicide realm and they weren't super quick in closing the file. And, if the Coroner kept the bullet and that happened to match one that that LE found at any of the other crime scenes, especially TB's truck, then all the puzzle pieces would go together. Also, there's the possibility that LE may have found the actual gun(s) MOO
 
Here's some information on guns in Canada so we are all on the same page about "gun dealers" and gun "trafficking" etc.

The Firearms Act lays out the Federal regs on guns.
A person in Canada(resident or Citizen) must have a RCMP background check, two references(to be interviewed by RCMP) a signed permission from the current and previous spouse and attend and pass the PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) course, written exam and skill test or challenge test and pass just to own, posses and purchase certain long guns. At the time we are covering here, the Long Gun Registry boondoggle was in effect, so all long guns were registered with the RCMP and accessible by all LE from the patrol car.

For handguns the laws were the same except they are deemed Restricted and the PAL for them is called a RPAL and they have to be stored differently(more ridiculously than long guns) and one has to seek permission in writing from the CFO in Orillia to transport the gun ANYWHERE and must receive and carry the ATT paperwork along with the handgun straight to and straight from the "stated on the paperwork location and in that time frame ONLY"

Of course, this is far a non criminal, upstanding, law abiding residents and citizens of Canada. There is no law for criminals, but we know that.

Now, if I as a resident or citizen of Canada sell a long gun within Canada under the law, I must sell only to another resident/citizen who is legally permitted to posses, purchase and own that gun. ie they have to have a current PAL issued by RCMP, I must verify that and at the time we are speaking of with DM/WM do transfer paperwork with the CFO in Orillia in order to re-register the long gun in the new PAL(owner's) name, address, etc. Handguns are similar only more restrictive.

Now, the good part. If I am simply slow in renewing, Canada Post is slow, RCMP is slow in sending renewal, or I let it expire, I am immediately a felon, with a mandatory jail term and fine. You can't even make this ridiculous crap up.

Or less say I sell a long gun to a person without validating, doing all the paperwork, etc. to make sure the buyer has a PAL, I am immediately a "gun Trafficker" and he owns an "illegal gun" and we are both in serious trouble.

Oh by the way, the criminal scum of Canada don't lose any sleep over these insane rules, as they don't abide by them anyway and we simply create automatic criminals out of pillars of the community with these arcane laws.

It's even worse WRT a handgun.......

So take it with a grain of salt when using what the Canadian Police wording is(gun dealer, gun trafficker, illegal gun yada yada.) It may not be as nefarious as it sounds.

On the other hand there is a problem with criminals obtaining guns in Canada and the US illegally and in the US legally, then transporting them to Canada for sale illegally.(usually handguns)

In summary, if DM had no PAL, or the seller had no PAL, or if the paperwork wasn't correctly done everything became illegal and thus "illegal gun", "gun trafficking" etc, etc. Same thing with handgun only RPAL in place of PAL and more paperwork done and received prior to handing gun to buyer, ATT paperwork for buyer prior to transport home, etc.

Currently there is no longer millions of dollars being wasted on the long gun boondoggle. It's simply two PAL holders exchanging a gun and money after determining the buyer has a PAL. If a PAL holder purchases from a gun store it is the same, seeing the PAL, selling the long gun and no Federal Registry.

There are some nuances, with the Bantario CFO making up his own version of the law, but court cases are pending on that.

One last note...a person visiting Canada can bring guns into Canada legally by declaring them at the border and or obtain a PAL through normal means.

Hard to figure exactly what happened with DM/WM. If WM had a legal/illegal gun, why not just use it? If WM had no gun and DM need to get one, he obviously didn't grasp the convoluted BS of Canadian gun ownership/registry etc. at the time, if he randomly purchase a gun to do the deed.
 
Anyone else have any nagging thoughts about the firearms question ?

Apparently LE have determined that the gun used in the death of WM was "trafficked" and "illegal" , and purchased by DM some years earlier

I would expect it was a handgun , because legal long rifles are easy to obtain .

But if DM was trying to stage a suicide , he would have to leave the gun there as part of the staging .... yet he would know it would bring a lot of police inquiry as to the origins of the gun , and DM himself was the origin .... I cannot comprehend him doing that unless he is dumber than a stick ... it would raise too many red flags

And by the sounds of WM , I doubt he would own an illegal handgun or rifle .... it would be out of character .

I would expect LE kept the gun these years pondering its origins , thus the suicide investigation was still "partly open"

If indeed it was DM's gun , I expect he would have tried it out a few times , what better place for target practice than his farm .... maybe LE found old shell casings from that same gun when they searched the farm .... they had metal detectors everywhere.

Plus the fact DM bought a holster on ebay ... I think it was AnnBro who researched that.

We do not know how TB was killed , but it if it was a gun it would have to be a concealed-carry handgun , but it could not be the same one used on WM

I have a lot of questions about the illegal gun and how it fits in. Even if LE believed it was a suicide from the start, the gun still should have, at the very least, been checked for registration and it also should have been checked against the bullet used. I can't believe that anyone would think they could leave a different gun at the scene than the one that was used. If the checks and tests weren't done, someone was certainly negligent in their duty. If LE did believe a story that the illegal gun was purchased by WM, then yes, they would have kept it. An illegal gun would never have been left with or returned to the family.

JMO
 
Perhaps someone can help me..I am honestly a little confused. I thought that the Crown was obligated to provide the accused (meaning DM and MS in my question here) all they had "whenever" they asked for it. If that is the case, then why would anything they had to present at a bail hearing for CN be letting a cat out of the bag?

TIA for helping me understand this...

I'm not sure I can explain how I think this works. The Crown does have to provide the defense with all the disclosure. However, they don't tell the defense how they are putting all that information together. In the bail hearing, to prove there was a murder that CN was an accessory to, they have to lay out their evidence and show what they are trying to prove. If they can't prove what they think happened, they can't hold her without bail. So the defense hears in advance how the Crown will be presenting their case and can plan their defense accordingly to create doubt. They know which pieces are going to be the hardest to discredit or what tactics they can use to create that doubt. This is also why it only matters if the Crown opposes bail.

JMO
 
On the gun......certainly several possibilities. Maybe WM had a shotgun purchased or "took" as payment for something. If he had no PAL it is illegal for him AND the person that gave it to him EVEN if they(the giver) had a PAL because the original owner sold/gave a gun "knowing" the receiver had no PAL.

Even a non PAL person can possess the said gun legally as EXECUTOR, for a set period of time before they have to dispose of it in some way or go get their own PAL. Maybe time ran out on DM. We saw the shotgun in a media photo after WM's death and I wondered how he had it(I assumed then he had no PAL and was possibly executor)

If DM had the hand gun that matched the holster, it is prohibited and is mandatory jail time without an RPAL and "grandfather" status on that handgun.

I can't see DM stupid enough to try the handgun(.380 IIRC) for ease of handling and following up with the shotgun in order to attempt to hide the handgun use in the murder.

I can't seem to easily fit a scenario in with a shotgun or handgun, without TPS being all over it at the original scene and realizing some gun issues.
Although maybe WM had a PAL. I can't see him having a gun around, being an activist and all.

Anyway, bottom line is there was a shotgun in a media photo after WM's death IIRC during/after a police search(associated with TB murder) and for that shotgun to be there it had to be legal or TPS overlooked it and made another huge blunder.
 
On the gun......certainly several possibilities. Maybe WM had a shotgun purchased or "took" as payment for something. If he had no PAL it is illegal for him AND the person that gave it to him EVEN if they(the giver) had a PAL because the original owner sold/gave a gun "knowing" the receiver had no PAL.

Even a non PAL person can possess the said gun legally as EXECUTOR, for a set period of time before they have to dispose of it in some way or go get their own PAL. Maybe time ran out on DM. We saw the shotgun in a media photo after WM's death and I wondered how he had it(I assumed then he had no PAL and was possibly executor)

If DM had the hand gun that matched the holster, it is prohibited and is mandatory jail time without an RPAL and "grandfather" status on that handgun.

I can't see DM stupid enough to try the handgun(.380 IIRC) for ease of handling and following up with the shotgun in order to attempt to hide the handgun use in the murder.

I can't seem to easily fit a scenario in with a shotgun or handgun, without TPS being all over it at the original scene and realizing some gun issues.
Although maybe WM had a PAL. I can't see him having a gun around, being an activist and all.

Anyway, bottom line is there was a shotgun in a media photo after WM's death IIRC during/after a police search(associated with TB murder) and for that shotgun to be there it had to be legal or TPS overlooked it and made another huge blunder.

I totally agree. The coroner must be called for any sudden unexpected death. For an illegal gun to be completely overlooked seems highly unlikely to me, especially in Canada.

Being an activist, WM could have still had a PAL and belonged to a gun club with no desire or reason to shoot anything other than a target at the club. It's not uncommon for licenced gun owners/collectors not to hunt.

JMO
 
On the gun......certainly several possibilities. Maybe WM had a shotgun purchased or "took" as payment for something. If he had no PAL it is illegal for him AND the person that gave it to him EVEN if they(the giver) had a PAL because the original owner sold/gave a gun "knowing" the receiver had no PAL.

Even a non PAL person can possess the said gun legally as EXECUTOR, for a set period of time before they have to dispose of it in some way or go get their own PAL. Maybe time ran out on DM. We saw the shotgun in a media photo after WM's death and I wondered how he had it(I assumed then he had no PAL and was possibly executor)

If DM had the hand gun that matched the holster, it is prohibited and is mandatory jail time without an RPAL and "grandfather" status on that handgun.

I can't see DM stupid enough to try the handgun(.380 IIRC) for ease of handling and following up with the shotgun in order to attempt to hide the handgun use in the murder.

I can't seem to easily fit a scenario in with a shotgun or handgun, without TPS being all over it at the original scene and realizing some gun issues.
Although maybe WM had a PAL. I can't see him having a gun around, being an activist and all.

Anyway, bottom line is there was a shotgun in a media photo after WM's death IIRC during/after a police search(associated with TB murder) and for that shotgun to be there it had to be legal or TPS overlooked it and made another huge blunder.


BBM - AA is this what you're referring to, the information about a shot gun being found in the house, 50 seconds into the video? CTV National News: Expanding the investigation, link on the right.

Would be interesting to find out what, if anything LE gleaned from the surveillance video taken from the neighbour's house next door. Wonder if DM was aware the neighbour had surveillance. Seems pretty apparent as there is a sign posted but who knows.
 
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