Timeline

[LambChop]

You asked how long it would take to walk 317 feet. I gave you the math for roughly 380 feet.

The math doesn't lie.

I believe you said running speed and not walking.

 

[Concerned Papa]

You asked how long it would take to walk 317 feet. I gave you the math for roughly 380 feet.

The math doesn't lie.

Math surely doesn't lie. Please note that the math used in the analogy being referenced was for RUNNING 380 feet, not WALKING 317 feet as the question I posed asked.

Check Robert Zimmerman's interview with Sean Hannity. Check Attorney O'Mara's re direct of Investigator Gilbreath. Check the "leaked" article at the Orlando Sentinel that was confirmed as accurate by Sanford's City Manager. NEVER ONCE does anyone say George Zimmerman was "running".

There's a good reason for that.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Concerned Papa,

I have a question regarding the statement of the GF:

The lawyer, who took an affidavit from the girl, quotes the girl on the cellphone as saying that Trayvon was walking home from the store and had temporarily taken refuge from the rain. He then began walking again, when he tells her, according to Crump, "I think this dude is following me."

"She tells him, 'baby, be careful, just run home,' " Crump said.

According to the girl, Trayvon says, "I think I lost him" then moments later says, "He is right behind me again. I'm not going to run, I'm going to walk fast."

Crump said "she hears another voice, 'What are you doing around here?' Trayvon says, 'Why are you following me?' " At that point, according to the girl, Travyon is pushed and his voice changes.

"She hears the altercation, suddenly, someone just hit the phone, because that's the last she hears," Crump said. She did not hear the shooting.

Where do you suspect TM "had temporarily taken refuge from the rain"?

 

[diesel]

Where can I ask or read about how hard it was raining that night? Was it heavy rain? And did it continue throughout the time from when GZ spotted Trayvon through to when the police arrived?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Concerned Papa,

I have a question regarding the statement of the GF:



Where do you suspect TM "had temporarily taken refuge from the rain"?

Good Morning Phoenix. While I can't say for certain, my opinion has always been that he was under the front entry or awning at the clubhouse. I'm at my office and don't have access to my saved links at home, but IIRC, Tracy Martin said that in his "walk through" interview early on.

Don't hold me to that, but that's the way I remember it.

 

[AJ Noiter]

Where can I ask or read about how hard it was raining that night? Was it heavy rain? And did it continue throughout the time from when GZ spotted Trayvon through to when the police arrived?

In this thread you'll find the METAR from that night. METARs are what are used all over the US, and I believe the world. METAR information does have varying degrees of precipitation, but it's not specific. From the METAR you'll see the "-RA," the minus sign indicates "light" and the RA indicates "rain." There may be more in the information after the RMK (Remarks) but to know exactly where they are and what they mean you'd have to talk to someone at the weather station that made the observation.

Edit: And welcome to the forums!

Further Edit: When I say "they have varying degrees of precip" what I mean is that these would have been rain drops. There are notes for mist and such also.

 

[lauriej]

Where can I ask or read about how hard it was raining that night? Was it heavy rain? And did it continue throughout the time from when GZ spotted Trayvon through to when the police arrived?

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
--sanford weather---february 26/2012---



5:53 PM
64.0 °F
0.01 in
Overcast

sunset: 6:22 p.m.

6:53 PM
63.0 °F
0.00 in
Light Rain

7:53 PM
63.0 °F
0.03 in
Overcast

8:00 PM
62.6 °F
Overcast

8:53 PM
64.0 °F
0.00 in
Light Rain

9:53 PM
64.9 °F
0.01 in
Overcast

10:35 PM
64.4 °F
0.06 in
Heavy Rain

10:51 PM
64.4 °F
0.11 in
Rain

10:53 PM
64.9 °F
0.11 in
Rain

11:53 PM
64.0 °F
0.00 in
Mostly Cloudy

 

[Alecto]

BBM

Welcome to WebSleuths! I'm glad to see a new member who's familiar with time/distance calculations.

Using the same average walking speed for the 7-11 trip, how long do you figure it would take to walk 317 feet?

Thank you for the welcome.

317 feet at 3mph would be 72 seconds. (380 feet would be 86 seconds.)

3mph is 4.4 feet per second.

3mph is just a very rough average for walking speed though, so there is some guesswork involved in the equation since actual speed easily could have been a little slower or faster.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Good Morning Phoenix. While I can't say for certain, my opinion has always been that he was under the front entry or awning at the clubhouse. I'm at my office and don't have access to my saved links at home, but IIRC, Tracy Martin said that in his "walk through" interview early on.

Don't hold me to that, but that's the way I remember it.

ahhhhh. Well that makes more sense. I was thinking all along that he was taking shelter from the rain during the missing minutes between when he runs and the confrontation.

Thanks!

 

[diesel]

Thank you for the info on the rain. Was just wondering why GZ's head didn't show signs of being wet from rain. Hair, tho short, didn't look wet. Don't think the police cars returning to the station had wipers on or looked wet but I looked around for that video and couldn't find it.

Thanks again. And for the welcome, too.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Thank you for the welcome.

317 feet at 3mph would be 72 seconds. (380 feet would be 86 seconds.)

3mph is 4.4 feet per second.

3mph is just a very rough average for walking speed though, so there is some guesswork involved in the equation since actual speed easily could have been a little slower or faster.

You are completely correct in all regards. So to take this one step further, would you agree that a "walk" of 317 feet which began at [2:08] run time of a 911 call would have ended somewhere around [3:20] of this call?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

RE: Timeline
The Defense is on an all out media blitz to sway public open. All we need to do to see that this is true is to read the "media/no discussion" thread from start until today.

IMO:
We still need a place for general discussion. The current available threads are either at a standstill or are overwhelmingly representative of the Defense's side. Which actually doesn't represent the majority view of the general public.

I agree, Just K. In fact I sent in a suggestion for a new thread about the Coverage the MSM has given this case--I think it is very divisive.

Have not heard back on my suggested thread. We do need a place for general discussion. Thanks.

 

[sleonardelli]

I haven't seen anything to that effect, but one witness has been recorded as saying "there was no moonlight" - the young boy.

There was no moonlight and only one porchlight according to the teen who saw part of the confrontation:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...essed-part-of-Trayvon-Zimmerman-confrontation

 

[AJ Noiter]

There was no moonlight and only one porchlight according to the teen who saw part of the confrontation:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...essed-part-of-Trayvon-Zimmerman-confrontation

I believe that's exactly what I was stating in the quote of me that you had. I could be wrong though.

 

[sleonardelli]

The timeline I put together from the transcript of GZ's call from MSM , the recording of GZ's call from the City of Sanford sit with times I noted from listening to it, the information on Trayvon Martin's phone logs from http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf, other information from police reports and Sanford Police dispatch logs from the City of Sanford site, and from SPD security footage at the police station. Some of the sources are no longer on the internet at the location I had for them so I don't have links.

ETA - this source has a lot of the resources I used to create this timeline: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/3/23/trayvon_martin_911_c.html

If this needs to be removed due to the lack of current links, I will understand.

Times NOT in 24 hour format are minutes:seconds:?? from the beginning of GZ's call as I measured with my audio software. ALL times in that format noted at the end of the immediately preceding comments on the recording. Notes in green are sounds I heard and thought worth mentioning.

19:11:56 (02:22:36)
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah (wind noises)
19:11:56 (02:25:20)
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
19:13:45 (04:11:00) (recording of call ends)
GF: 19:12:00 (@ 19:11:30-19:12:30) to 19:16:00 (@19:15:30-19:16:30)

@3 minutes from the time GZ acknowledges advice NOT TO FOLLOW and the approximate time the GF hears the confrontation. Seems GZ would have plenty of time to get back to his truck

19:11:41 (02:06:65) **** he's running.
19:12:00 (19:11:30-19:12:30) Trayvon receives call from girlfriend

Seems like Trayvon STOPPED to talk to the girlfriend instead of going home. Could this be when Trayvon thought he lost GZ?

 

[sleonardelli]

I believe that's exactly what I was stating in the quote of me that you had. I could be wrong though.

I was simply trying to provide a link to your comment.

 

[sleonardelli]

Concerned Papa,

I have a question regarding the statement of the GF:



Where do you suspect TM "had temporarily taken refuge from the rain"?

According to the timeline at the beginning of the thread:

19:10:22 (00:48:42)
Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Or, if you're referring to when Trayvon received the call @ aprx 19:12 - it may not have been raining at that time:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
--sanford weather---february 26/2012---

6:53 PM
63.0 °F
0.00 in
Light Rain

7:53 PM
63.0 °F
0.03 in
Overcast

 

[AJ Noiter]

I was simply trying to provide a link to your comment.

Ah, thanks!

 

[Alecto]

You are completely correct in all regards. So to take this one step further, would you agree that a "walk" of 317 feet which began at [2:08] run time of a 911 call would have ended somewhere around [3:20] of this call?

It's a tricky question because that is the right amount of time for a walk of that distance but it doesn't seem to match what happened. I've been focused on the earlier precall timeline but I like your graphics that try to pin down what GZ is saying at various moments while he is walking, very nice work.

As you've already observed something is not right with GZ's timeline. I think a possible explanation might be that truck was a little further away then commonly reported and that GZ loitered a bit while finishing his call at the east end of the cut through. I believe GZ had sincerely thought TM had run to the south east exit and when GZ reached the street side where he could see that exit he was confused by not seeing TM in the distance in that direction. So maybe he spent a little time scanning the area trying see if he could see where TM had gone and I think that is possibly what was going on when the call ended.

It's still a fairly short walk back to his truck though so GZ still must have not just headed back directly, I believe he has mentioned looking for a house number first so that might explain a few missing seconds. The first 911 caller may have been slow to react as well so maybe the fight had started a little earlier then commonly believed. (And of course, GZ could just be lying about a bunch of details as well.)

In general GZ and TM both moved in ways that don't seem intuitive for three minutes. Around 7:16 they are fighting in spot a few feet from where they had apparently both passed 3 minutes earlier without incident. Very strange.

 

[Concerned Papa]

It's a tricky question because that is the right amount of time for a walk of that distance but it doesn't seem to match what happened. I've been focused on the earlier precall timeline but I like your graphics that try to pin down what GZ is saying at various moments while he is walking, very nice work.

As you've already observed something is not right with GZ's timeline. I think a possible explanation might be that truck was a little further away then commonly reported and that GZ loitered a bit while finishing his call at the east end of the cut through. I believe GZ had sincerely thought TM had run to the south east exit and when GZ reached the street side where he could see that exit he was confused by not seeing TM in the distance in that direction. So maybe he spent a little time scanning the area trying see if he could see where TM had gone and I think that is possibly what was going on when the call ended.

It's still a fairly short walk back to his truck though so GZ still must have not just headed back directly, I believe he has mentioned looking for a house number first so that might explain a few missing seconds. The first 911 caller may have been slow to react as well so maybe the fight had started a little earlier then commonly believed. (And of course, GZ could just be lying about a bunch of details as well.)

In general GZ and TM both moved in ways that don't seem intuitive for three minutes. Around 7:16 they are fighting in spot a few feet from where they had apparently both passed 3 minutes earlier without incident. Very strange.

I'm basing the position I have shown for the truck on 2 things.

#1

What George said to the 911 dispatcher:

Zimmerman: He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

Later, he says the following:

911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher: Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman: Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]

Other that the location I have shown, where in this entire development could George's truck have been parked AND:

• George be able to see TM start running "down towards the back entrance" while inside,

• Be in full view of responding LE officers after going past the mail boxes,

• Be parked at a "cut through"?

#2

What his father said on the Sean Hannity show:

ZIMMERMAN: From where George's vehicle was, there's a sidewalk that goes to the next street over. Off of that sidewalk there's another sidewalk that goes between two rows of townhomes

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hanni...-trayvon-martin-shooting?page=2#ixzz1svJVUFyf

I don't see anywhere else in this entire development all of the above qualifiers could be met except in the location I have shown.

Now, whether or not any of it's true is another matter...........