TN TN - Chloie Leverette, 9, & Gage Daniel, 7, Unionville, 23 Sept 2012

[HeinekenMan]

According to one site I checked, a cremation is done at about 1,500 degrees and can take 1-3 hours. It doesn't take long for a house fire to reach that temperature. If there is a basement with concrete walls, the heat might be even greater. I assume that the propane could cause the fire to rise to more than 2,000 degrees in some parts of the home. The question is whether there were areas of the home where only ashes remained. If there is a partially burned hat in a part of the home, you can assume that it wasn't hot enough to turn a body to ashes.

 

[peeples]

Maybe it depends where you are in a house and where the fire starts.

I dont know! This is all very strange!
And very sad!
Where were the grandprents found in the house? what room?

Basement

 

[GrainneDhu]

I just can't believe no national news on this tonight! With the Groene kids, they were all over it. It's just crazy

I think it may be a combination of the upcoming election and the uncertainty.

It could be the major outlets are not willing to commit until they are sure it isn't a case of the childrens' remains being in the fire debris but undiscovered yet.

 

[Eileen730]

Basement

Thanks!
When ya hear Basement you think they were killed and put down there!

 

[Eileen730]

Where is Mom and dad and step parents or BFs and GF's.

 

[GrainneDhu]

JMO, think the children have been taken by some one related to them.

The mother has been cleared, Chloie's father is dead and Gage's father has also been cleared. So the obvious suspects aren't... I wonder who that leaves?

 

[Eileen730]

Were the grandparents on the mom or dads side?

 

[GrainneDhu]

How long was that fire burning before he fire dept was called there was nothing left to that house. I think the house caught on fire and they all perished it seems to me that house was burning for a long time.

If by chance it was arson I tend to believe its a family member that took the children and killed the grandparents! JMO

The fire department said the house was fully engulfed by the time they got there.

Plus, they had problems fighting the fire because of the way the property was set up, they couldn't get more than one truck up there are a time. The tankers ran out of water and there was a 20 minute span where all the firefighters could do was watch the place burn until the tankers returned with more water (no nearby hydrants).

Oddly enough, it sounds like the fire across the road from my place. The way their property was set up, only two fire engines could get near the house and the tankers were dumping their water into a fold-up pool, then using our U-shaped driveway to get around the tank and go back to the nearest hydrant to pick up more water. Their place burned to the ground but no one was in it (and it was arson).

Made me thankful that the practical minded farmers who set out our property put a nice big U-shaped driveway all around the house. If our house started to burn, the firefighters could have easily 10 trucks spraying water from all four sides of the house.

The childrens' living parents have both been cleared. I haven't found enough about the extended family to make a guess as to whether someone else wanted them so badly they would kill to get them.

I have a horrid feeling that this may be another Joseph Duncan III situation: perpetrator saw the children playing outside, decided to abduct the children and torched the house to destroy any clues.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Were the grandparents on the mom or dads side?

Grandparents were on the mom's side; Molli or Molly (have seen it spelled both ways) McClaren was Cheryl Leverette's mother (Cheryl is the mother of both Chloie and Gage).

 

[Eileen730]

Where are Chloies fathers parents?

 

[Eileen730]

How did Chloies dad die?

 

[carbuff]

Thanks!
When ya hear Basement you think they were killed and put down there!

With a fire that complete, they could have been on an upper floor that crumbled into the basement -- it will no doubt take the fire investigators quite a lot of work to determine that. They look at whether there's debris under or over the remains, that sort of thing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Where are Chloies fathers parents?

I haven't read anything about them.

Their name may be Pope because some news stories mentioned that Chloie sometimes used the last name Pope.

I haven't even found Chloie's father's full name.

 

[forthelost]

According to one site I checked, a cremation is done at about 1,500 degrees and can take 1-3 hours. It doesn't take long for a house fire to reach that temperature. If there is a basement with concrete walls, the heat might be even greater. I assume that the propane could cause the fire to rise to more than 2,000 degrees in some parts of the home. The question is whether there were areas of the home where only ashes remained. If there is a partially burned hat in a part of the home, you can assume that it wasn't hot enough to turn a body to ashes.

Even when you cremate a body, it doesn't become a pile of ashes. There are still significant bone fragments left. What's given to someone after a cremation is only a small portion of whatever was cremated.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Even when you cremate a body, it doesn't become a pile of ashes. There are still significant bone fragments left. What's given to someone after a cremation is only a small portion of whatever was cremated.

I agree.

In Japan, the traditional cremation ceremony involves leaving the body in a locked compartment at the crematory. When the body has been cremated, the family returns with special chopsticks and a vessel for each family or family member.

The bones are easily recognisable and there is a ritual way in which they are removed from the crematory compartment and divided between the various vessels for the family members.

The reason why cremated remains in the USA look like grit or pebble like "ashes" is because the crematory puts the cremated remains through a set of rollers, which pulverises them into unrecognisable chunks. The theory is that family members might be distressed to see recognisable cremated bones.

It's interesting how cultures differ.

And in this case, since the fire debris hasn't yielded anything that has been identified as the children's remains after several teams have gone through them (including a team that went to the ruins of the World Trade Centers), I think the children were not there.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://gantdaily.com/2012/10/04/search-continues-for-missing-tennessee-kids/

October 4, 2012 at 4:46 AM by AHN

Short article at link

 

[wantjustice]

I shudder to think of the implications that these two children were not found in the fire! I am still traumatized from the Joseph Duncan case. I pray that this isn't the case. Or that someone just wanted to raise two children and is delusional but that would still mean they murdered the grandparents.

 

[palaminodee]

why is WATE 6 news from TN saying they have been found on their fb page?
I have not found one article stating that, also the amber alert is still active...
are they incorrect??

 

[shefner]

why is WATE 6 news from TN saying they have been found on their fb page?
I have not found one article stating that, also the amber alert is still active...
are they incorrect??

Hmmmm....I don't know. Can you give us a link?

 

[Considering]

why is WATE 6 news from TN saying they have been found on their fb page?
I have not found one article stating that, also the amber alert is still active...
are they incorrect??

:dunno: I don't see it.