TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren,44, Signal Mountain, 30 April, 2011 - #11

[redfish]

I just saw the link today, and the paragraph about the calls (MP to Gail's sister) is gone.

Just caught up with the thread and see that others noted the editted report as well.

I think someone goofed and put the additional information in and then thought better of it or was told not to include after the fact. That assumption makes this "factual" information. On the other hand it could have been non- factual from the get-go.... wish JBean could give a thumbs up or down on this one. :banghead:

 

[JBean]

All I can say is that I have never heard anything about the "10 hour" '12 hour" calls before.
I think we should dump that info from our discussion for now. We have nothing to substantiate it-but if it should prove to be verified at some point we can pick it up then.

 

[Emeralgem]

All I can say is that I have never heard anything about the "10 hour" '12 hour" calls before.
I think we should dump that info from our discussion for now. We have nothing to substantiate it-but if it should prove to be verified at some point we can pick it up then.

I won't discuss it further here since it has been removed from their site but that information is in my brain and I can't ignore it...JMHO

 

[Some1Nose]

Where did the phone ping on the 2nd? Didn't someone say the Walmart area?
Walmart is on Signal Mtn Blvd not to far from Mtn Creek Road and not too far from Suck Creek Road.

(respectfully snipped)

"The last signal from Palmgren's cell phone was reported near Mountain Creek Road two days after she went missing."

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/

I also recall that it was reported in MSM that DN stated the last cell phone ping on 5/2/11 was on the north base of SM.

From what I've gathered from your excellent descriptions of the SM area roads, these two locations would not be near each other?

(I know we are all thankful for anybody willing to search for Gail and her Jeep Rubicon, but I couldn't help but notice the searchers in the photo accompanying the news article linked above weren't exactly dressed for rugged terraine searching....that still needs to be done, imho!)

 

[Some1Nose]

respectfully snipped

Thanks for the Jeep info - I didn't know how the Rubicon differed from other models. It explains why I've never seen a single Rubicon where I live, even though I check out every single Jeep I see now since Gail's disappearance. (There isn't much use for a rugged vehicle like that here - I live on the coast, in the land of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Even the SUVs here are luxury brands.)

I knew Gail's Jeep was capable of going off-road, but didn't know the extent. This means her Jeep could be pretty much anywhere (which we kinda already knew, but still).

Yes, her Jeep could be anywhere, whole or dismantled, but I don't believe she had off-roading on her mind the day of 4/30, at least not alone. On the other hand, maybe she liked to do off-roading to decompress and think things over...in that case scenario, maybe she did head for off-road areas....more intensive searches are needed, at least to rule areas out, imo.

Also, if Gail is the victim of foul play, I don't believe someone is going to travel too far off the beaten path to dispose of a body and vehicle because they'd have to turn around and return to the main roadways and would seemingly run a greater risk of being detected.

 

[Some1Nose]

Was doing some reading about the Rubicon jeep-
http://www.examiner.com/auto-review...rangler-rubicon-review-don-t-buy-this-vehicle

snipped-
The Rubicon is separated from lesser Jeeps with the addition of a special off-road part-time "Rock-Trac" two-speed transfer case with a truly crawl-worthy 4.0:1 low range. The front and rear axle lockers provide maximum grip for severe off-road use, with an electronic sway-bar disconnect that allows extra suspension articulation to help keep all four wheels on the ground--or rocks or whatever--in extreme situations you'll never see in the 'burbs./QUOTE]
(respectfully snipped)

When I did some reading about 2010 Jeep Rubicon performance reviews awhile back, I read that some tend to have a stability problem but don't recall the particulars. I just remember thinking I would not want to be on back roads and rough terrain in one of those!

Maybe some car (Jeep Rubicon) buffs can weigh in?

 

[Emeralgem]

(respectfully snipped)

"The last signal from Palmgren's cell phone was reported near Mountain Creek Road two days after she went missing."

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/

I also recall that it was reported in MSM that DN stated the last cell phone ping on 5/2/11 was on the north base of SM.

From what I've gathered from your excellent descriptions of the SM area roads, these two locations would not be near each other?

(I know we are all thankful for anybody willing to search for Gail and her Jeep Rubicon, but I couldn't help but notice the searchers in the photo accompanying the news article linked above weren't exactly dressed for rugged terraine searching....that still needs to be done, imho!)

The volunteers in that photo were combing all the streets in the neighborhoods on Signal Mtn looking for the jeep, they were not searching any areas that are extremely dangerous with rugged terraine.. I agree that needs to be done and we need professional SAR to accomplish that task..JMHO

 

[KathyJ]

Let me be more clear:

I am assuming that the message allegedly left by Matt on 4/29 referencing "12 hours" had to do with returning the children. My assumption is based upon the fact that Gail returned them to him.

Separately, SMPD gave her phone numbers to safe houses. Women certainly bring their children with them when they are fleeing abusive marriages. I would think that Gail should have known that first of all, she was not obligated to return the children to Matt. She had them. She had the right to have them with her.

So, one question-did Matt's alleged deadline regarding 12 hours have to do with the return of the children?

Another question- how did SMPD advise her regarding the children, or did they at all?

Last question: why did she drop the kids off and then leave?

That last question is the one haunting me. Why would she drop the kids at the house and leave them there alone especially under the circumstances. This one just does not sit right with me at all. IMO it makes me think this was the plan---all part of a big plan so that the kids were safe and not with Gail...Just makes me wonder what was set up for that day that we don't know about. All we know is she returned home quickly after leaving the night before and we still don't quite realize why she came back so quickly that next day.

IMO I think there was some plan to get Gail back home and make sure she was alone after dropping the kids off. As we all know something went terribly wrong after she dropped the kids off. I am almost wondering if she was tricked into returning the kids and then possibly leaving to meet someone only to run into trouble.

 

[glorias]

Excellent points! I'm snipping just to highlight this bit:

Gail wanted SMPD to meet her at the SM home when she dropped the kids off - why? Why would one make such a request of the police? Fear. I think she didn't want to be alone w/ MP for some reason. So when she got home and the police weren't there, she dropped the kids off and hightailed it outta there, to avoid a confrontation. And because she is a loving, responsible mother (IMO), she called SMPD to let them know that she dropped the kids off at the house, and that they were alone because MP wasn't there yet.

Maybe she wanted the time the kids came back documented by a 3rd party for future divorce claims. If MP had told her he would tell the court during the impending divorce proceedings that she was "stealing" the kids or had a history of not returning them at an agreed-upon time, it might affect custody, so she may have wanted someone else out there so she had documentation that she DID return them.

 

[glorias]

I also recall that it was reported in MSM that DN stated the last cell phone ping on 5/2/11 was on the north base of SM.

From what I've gathered from your excellent descriptions of the SM area roads, these two locations would not be near each other?

Hopefully someone local can correct me on this, but I think the Mountain Creek Road location is the location of the ping. I'm wondering if that "north base" report was a typo/mistake? They must have meant "south base," surely.

The Wal-Mart the May 2nd ping may have come from I THINK is the one at 501 Signal Mountain Road. It's the specific Wal-Mart that Forums4Justice always listed on their timeline, and I think it's the one that fliers were passed out in a few days after Gail went missing, too.

I'm not good with maps so until Emeralgem thankfully posted that great map the other day, I didn't realize how close the 501 Signal Mt Rd Wal-Mart is to that area at the base of the mountain where Ridgeway Ave meets Suck Creek Road and Mountain Creek Road. JBean confirmed Gail was seen at the base of the mountain, and I think it's pretty solid speculation that the path Emeralgem's map highlights is the most likely road Gail took.

That means we know Gail was confirmed on the 30th to be in that area, and then two days later on the 2nd her phone pinged one last time from very near that area.

Which makes me go all the way back to something asked very early on -- Do we know if anyone has looked at Wal-Mart security footage? How closely was that area searched for a cell phone? I know that's a needle/haystack situation, but I definitely wonder. A phone could be easily overlooked in a busy Wal-Mart parking lot, especially if it had been run over or was over in a grassy area.

 

[glorias]

Just thinking about the ping if it really WAS at the north base of the mountain -- I can't find a Wal-Mart near the area in the north, not until you get all the way up to Dunlap. If I'm reading the info about the ping right, it sounds like the ping was picked up at a tower near a Wal-Mart.

This ping situation has always confused me, but I think I'd like to finally get it straight in my head:

DN said "traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2."

This seems kind of vague to me. It doesn't specifically state the north base pings were on the 2nd. Do we know for certain those north base pings were May 2nd, that they were the last activity on the phone?

 

[Snowbunny]

Excellent points! I'm snipping just to highlight this bit:



Maybe she wanted the time the kids came back documented by a 3rd party for future divorce claims. If MP had told her he would tell the court during the impending divorce proceedings that she was "stealing" the kids or had a history of not returning them at an agreed-upon time, it might affect custody, so she may have wanted someone else out there so she had documentation that she DID return them.

There was no legal separation/divorce proceedings going on at said time and MP wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this scenario. Gail had just as much right to those kids and if MP tried to pull that kind of crap in court it wouldn't hold water.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I think at the time she drove those kids home she was less worried about what MP may or may not do in a future court action and more worried about invoking his temper at that moment....JMHO

 

[Emeralgem]

Just thinking about the ping if it really WAS at the north base of the mountain -- I can't find a Wal-Mart near the area in the north, not until you get all the way up to Dunlap. If I'm reading the info about the ping right, it sounds like the ping was picked up at a tower near a Wal-Mart.

This ping situation has always confused me, but I think I'd like to finally get it straight in my head:DN said "traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2."

This seems kind of vague to me. It doesn't specifically state the north base pings were on the 2nd. Do we know for certain those north base pings were May 2nd, that they were the last activity on the phone?

BBM... Me too.. I just don't understand how the Walmart area on Signal Mtn Blvd close to Mtn Creek Road can be referred to as the north base of the mountain...

IF CC did see Gail on Big Fork Road on April 30th and the sighing was in Sequatchie County that area could most definitely be referred to as being north base.. Thats all I know.....
IF someone reading here has definite and accurate knowledge as to what area is considered to be north base please speak up and help us solve this problem.... TYIA..

JMHO.

 

[sreshowtime]

Just thinking about the ping if it really WAS at the north base of the mountain -- I can't find a Wal-Mart near the area in the north, not until you get all the way up to Dunlap. If I'm reading the info about the ping right, it sounds like the ping was picked up at a tower near a Wal-Mart.

This ping situation has always confused me, but I think I'd like to finally get it straight in my head:

DN said "traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2."

This seems kind of vague to me. It doesn't specifically state the north base pings were on the 2nd. Do we know for certain those north base pings were May 2nd, that they were the last activity on the phone?

When they say activity on cell 5/2, do they mean actual calls, coming or going? Or just that the phone was still on, therefore 'pinging' off a tower?

SO April 30 is when she disappeared, yet her cell phone was still showing in the immediate area up to May 2.....correct?
Was it pinging on any other towers prior to the last one?

 

[glorias]

There was no legal separation/divorce proceedings going on at said time and MP wouldn't have a leg to stand on in this scenario. Gail had just as much right to those kids and if MP tried to pull that kind of crap in court it wouldn't hold water.

I want to be clear that I am not saying MP was making any kind of valid argument.

See, we know they were headed for divorce before she disappeared, both AD and DN have said so, plus Gail was documenting things for the upcoming divorce. Maybe MP was too, and that got me to thinking, what if MP said he was documenting Gail not returning the kids home at a time he insisted upon? Or that she took the kids when he didn't approve of it or know of it?

If Gail was scared, it wouldn't matter if MP was making a valid argument or not, just as long as he could manipulate her.

Tangentially, I would say that the validity of anything MP might claim in a hypothetical divorce case would be determined by a judge, and unfortunately I've seen some judges rule in some really weird ways IMVHO.

Just my 2 cents on all that.

 

[Some1Nose]

Just thinking about the ping if it really WAS at the north base of the mountain -- I can't find a Wal-Mart near the area in the north, not until you get all the way up to Dunlap. If I'm reading the info about the ping right, it sounds like the ping was picked up at a tower near a Wal-Mart.

This ping situation has always confused me, but I think I'd like to finally get it straight in my head:

DN said "traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2."

This seems kind of vague to me. It doesn't specifically state the north base pings were on the 2nd. Do we know for certain those north base pings were May 2nd, that they were the last activity on the phone?

LE reportedly not only were led to cell phone activity (ping?) at the north base of SM, but also searched a portion of Suck Creek which I thought was near the Walmart on SM Blvd? (Does Suck Creek run to the north base, as well?)

Sooo....maybe there were pings detected at both the South and North bases of SM between 4/30 to 5/2??

One thing is clear, imo...if Gail left the area, her cell phone did not!

 

[Some1Nose]

It would be helpful to know if Gail was a person who kept to a routine? For example, did she drive the same route to and from SM and the AL lake house?
(Especially going down and up Signal Mountain?)

It sounds as though Gail had not had much rest on 4/29 and 4/30...so it seems reasonable that she may have chosen the most direct route up SM and down again on the early afternoon of 4/30 (epecially with apparently only minutes between driving up and down again); unless, she had plans to meet with someone and/or go to a particular place that involved an uncustomary route for her.

 

[Some1Nose]

Was doing some reading about the Rubicon jeep-
http://www.examiner.com/auto-review...rangler-rubicon-review-don-t-buy-this-vehicle

snipped-
The Rubicon is separated from lesser Jeeps with the addition of a special off-road part-time "Rock-Trac" two-speed transfer case with a truly crawl-worthy 4.0:1 low range. The front and rear axle lockers provide maximum grip for severe off-road use, with an electronic sway-bar disconnect that allows extra suspension articulation to help keep all four wheels on the ground--or rocks or whatever--in extreme situations you'll never see in the 'burbs.

(respectfully snipped)

When I did some reading about 2010 Jeep Rubicon performance reviews awhile back, I read that some tend to have a stability problem but don't recall the particulars. I just remember thinking I would not want to be on back roads and rough terrain in one of those!

Maybe some car (Jeep Rubicon) buffs can weigh in?

Just doing a little editing of a recent post of mine to display the correct quote from sreshowtime.

 

[Emeralgem]

LE reportedly not only were led to cell phone activity (ping?) at the north base of SM, but also searched a portion of Suck Creek which I thought was near the Walmart on SM Blvd? (Does Suck Creek run to the north base, as well?)

Sooo....maybe there were pings detected at both the South and North bases of SM between 4/30 to 5/2??

One thing is clear, imo...if Gail left the area, her cell phone did not!

Mountain roads around here can be so confusing. Suck Creek Road runs from the foot of Signal Mtn located in Hamilton County over to Powell's Crossroads located in Marion County.
Sequatchie County is located north of Marion County.
For the most part both Marion and Sequatchie counties are west and north of what i consider to be the foot of Signal Mtn...

http://mapq.st/pO0oe6