TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren,44, Signal Mountain, 30 April, 2011 - #11

[CatFancier]

:clap:

I agree. To believe that LE knows she went off on her own would mean that:

1. They have information that points to that scenario;

2. That info is something none of Gail's friends, family OR private investigator have come across on their own;

3. The people in LE who know this have not shared any of that info with Gail's family;

4. They have somehow managed to keep everyone in these LE agencies (both SM and HC) from telling people outside LE (and starting gossip) and have kept it entirely away from the media;

5. They aren't telling CUE or any other agency that is involved, which means they're letting these agencies basically waste resources to find Gail (and with CUE's experience, wouldn't they have turned the case down if they thought Gail just ran off?);

6. HCSO keeps Gail's case on the front page of their website and the FBI agent keeps allowing people to report his email address in case they have info. If Gail was in hiding, would both these agencies really put their info out there so the public could keep wasting their time?

7. Gail would have to have abandoned her kids, despite so many of Gail's friends and relatives saying she would never do such a thing;

8. She has to have had plenty of resources to get fake IDs and a new vehicle to start a life in hiding;

9. She would have abandoned all the money and family jewelry she gave to a bunch of people. Actually, I can't think of a reason she would have given these items to people in the first place if she was just going to run off and abandon the kids;

10. MP -- who has obviously been putting out info about Gail to say she was mentally unbalanced, had run off before, may have killed herself from stress or grief, was "flat f----d up," etc. -- somehow hasn't provided evidence that she really DID run off. Instead he's thwarted timely searches and taken the computers away, and as far as we know hasn't volunteered to interview with LE.

These are the things I just can't get past when the theory that Gail ran off and LE knows it is presented.

And then there's the idea that with all the cases of women disappearing while the husband/bf had a woman on the side, wanted custody, possibly wanted money, where there was a history 911 calls immediately prior to the disappearance and a friend who said there might have been emotional and physical abuse, that somehow THIS case is really the one where the woman ran off and the guy is being unfairly maligned.

Just my 5 1/2 cents.

This sums up my thoughts exactly.

 

[Peliman]

BBM-yes they would. I have seen MP cases kept on the books well after LE has spoken with the person who was reported. One was a case out of Las Vegas. When I spoke with the detective, he said that he could not inform the family because of the person's right to privacy...basically their right to walk away.

In a case like Gail's, it is really tricky because she has received so much publicity, if she called them or even if she has, I dont know what LE would do. They wouldnt make an announcement of course, but would they tell her family??

I dont know.

Not sure if anyone's read this news article but it's very informative about Las Vegas LE protocol and another missing person. Even websleuths and a couple users are mentioned in the article. I have no idea how other LE juristictions handle things but it may be similar.

searching-for-the-missing-people-of-las-vegas

 

[confused]

I'm sure, with the statement about deleted data* from his attorney, it will take them some time. **** That bold statement still has me in shock and disbelief and boy I'd love to hear what the FBI has to say about that.

Davis said in an interview Thursday that the computer hard drives have been sent to technicians to see if any files or history can be recovered that might lead to Gail Palmgren.
“We’ve sent them off to see what’s on them,” he said. “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/08/missing-palmgren-computers-turned-over-defense-att/

Is this the statement you are referring to? If so, which portion of it is causing shock and disbelief? He didn't state they were deleting files, rather they were trying to recover files and history. I can't see how that could be a bad thing.

 

[Pearl*]

In reference to myself, until LE publicly announces Gail is alive and in hiding and MP is NOT in any way, shape or form involved or responsible with the disappearance of his wife, Gail Marie Nowacki Palmgren I will continue to believe Gail met up with foul play and Matt P is the one responsible for whatever has happened to her..
As I see it we are all entitled to believe what we choose to believe from information gleaned, and we are also free to change our minds IF what we believe is proven to be inaccurate .. For now, until I receive proof beyond a shadow of a doubt he is not involved in Gail's disappearance I'll continue to believe and assume he is involved.
His actions, as well as his non action concerning her disappearance is what has led me to believe what I believe... JMHO

ETA IF what I am assuming turns out to be wrong, I don't have a problem admitting I was wrong and apologizing... I can accept having to eat crow......JMHO

[bbm]

:thud:

Is this all in response to me? I'm not picking on anybody's opinions. Really.

All I'm saying is that I'm trying to be more open-minded than I have been in the past. I'm trying to pay more attention to notice what I know and what I don't know. I'm trying to be more careful about making assumptions, especially based on my own experiences and attitudes. Because I'm not Gail.

After a while, fact gets really muddled in with all the opinions and assumptions stirred up together. It gets hard to separate them IMO.

eace:

 

[Blue Moc]

Davis said in an interview Thursday that the computer hard drives have been sent to technicians to see if any files or history can be recovered that might lead to Gail Palmgren.
“We’ve sent them off to see what’s on them,” he said. “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/08/missing-palmgren-computers-turned-over-defense-att/

Is this the statement you are referring to? If so, which portion of it is causing shock and disbelief? He didn't state they were deleting files, rather they were trying to recover files and history. I can't see how that could be a bad thing.

I think this is one of the those statements we tend to filter through the lens of our assumptions, somewhat like what Pearl was referring to a few posts back. If we believe that MP and his attorneys are up to no good we immediately assume this refers to nefarious behavior on their part to cover up. If not, we read it much like you did, assuming it refers to files that could have been deleted in the normal manner of use by anyone using the computer.

None of us knows which is true, but it's always bugged me that this statement has been used to assume that MP and his attorneys were erasing incriminating files. I'm not saying that couldn't have happened, but this statement alone does not mean that did happen. Yet it's one of those things that seems to be assumed as fact by many.

 

[Emeralgem]

[bbm]

:thud:

Is this all in response to me? I'm not picking on anybody's opinions. Really.

All I'm saying is that I'm trying to be more open-minded than I have been in the past. I'm trying to pay more attention to notice what I know and what I don't know. I'm trying to be more careful about making assumptions, especially based on my own experiences and attitudes. Because I'm not Gail.

After a while, fact gets really muddled in with all the opinions and assumptions stirred up together. It gets hard to separate them IMO.

eace:

BBM... No, not in reponse to you... My reply was to explain why I feel and think as I do concerning this case....I'm not picking on anybody's opinions either. We are all entitled to have one, and most importantly to be respectful of other's who may share a different opinion than our own.

And, like you, I also believe it is important to keep an open mind..I have considered other scenarios but keep coming back to she did not leave of her own volition and she has met with foul play even IF LE hasn't found any physical evidence at this time to prove that to be the case.. IF and when infomation is presented that prove I'm not only off base but totally out of the ballpark I'm going to maintain my stance...I suspect MP is involved in Gail's disappearance, and the circumstances as to WHY no one has been able to locate Gail in almost five months now..JMHO

 

[Melodie]

BBM... No, not in reponse to you... My reply was to explain why I feel and think as I do concerning this case....I'm not picking on anybody's opinions either. We are all entitled to have one, and most importantly to be respectful of other's who may share a different opinion than our own.

And, like you, I also believe it is important to keep an open mind..I have considered other scenarios but keep coming back to she did not leave of her own volition and she has met with foul play even IF LE hasn't found any physical evidence at this time to prove that to be the case.. IF and when infomation is presented that prove I'm not only off base but totally out of the ballpark I'm going to maintain my stance...I suspect MP is involved in Gail's disappearance, and the circumstances as to WHY no one has been able to locate Gail in almost five months now..JMHO

Em, I agree with you completely. I have also considered other theories. I really have. Every time I do, though, I just keep coming back to my original gut feeling. Every other theory requires that I consider ideas that to me, are far-fetched and go against probability and statistics. The passage of so much time has also weakened other theories for me. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Davis said in an interview Thursday that the computer hard drives have been sent to technicians to see if any files or history can be recovered that might lead to Gail Palmgren.
“We’ve sent them off to see what’s on them,” he said. “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/08/missing-palmgren-computers-turned-over-defense-att/

Is this the statement you are referring to? If so, which portion of it is causing shock and disbelief? He didn't state they were deleting files, rather they were trying to recover files and history. I can't see how that could be a bad thing.

I didn't say anything WAS deleted either--- like the statement I was referring to: “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”

Just that I obviously think an attorney says everything for a reason...and I feel it was added info and all the attorney had to say was the hard drives had been sent to technicians. Just like LE, they choose their words carefully. Since he is a defense attorney for Matt, AND didn't see the need to share the info with LE...(which by the way would have been no cost to him or his client for LE to do the forensic work), it's prolly in his clients best interest if any incriminating evidence pointing to MP would be deleted. Whether it had to do with GP disappearing or other illegalities that may be found.

Now it would be really interesting if the technician lived and worked in Louisville, KY.

 

[Emeralgem]

Em, I agree with you completely. I have also considered other theories. I really have. Every time I do, though, I just keep coming back to my original gut feeling. Every other theory requires that I consider ideas that to me, are far-fetched and go against probability and statistics. The passage of so much time has also weakened other theories for me. JMO

Not a hair or a trace in almost five months now... Considering everything that transpired before her disappearance I have to go with this being methodically planned to have her "ERASED"....JMHO

 

[Annie_61]

Thank you Oriah and Believe09 for the answers to some of my questions back on the last page.

 

[hollyblue]

Not sure if anyone's read this news article but it's very informative about Las Vegas LE protocol and another missing person. Even websleuths and a couple users are mentioned in the article. I have no idea how other LE juristictions handle things but it may be similar.

searching-for-the-missing-people-of-las-vegas

I'm glad Gail didn't go missing in the area of LV. Common occurrence there and GP's case would one of the thousands! Truly a ? case and the only thing that makes sense, to me, is all his actions before hand were made to make no sense. Of all the places to abandon your car and walk by.... is the house of a US Marshall with a surveillance system.?? Unlike Gail's pending divorce, domestic issues, etc., there truly wasn't anything found at all leading to foul play. Not to say it didn't happen, but more inclined to think he did start a new life elsewhere.

 

[believe09]

A bit of a side issue, I guess, but do people have the right to walk away from dependent kids? That complicates things legally I would think?

The short answer is sure. People abandon kids all of the time.

It pretty much opens the absentee parent to at least a temporary loss of custody, but I can think of only a few set of circumstances where the custody issue is irreversable. I mean, if we take Gail for example. Matt is custodial parent by virtue of having the kids right now, right? If she comes back she can petition the court for whatever custody she wants-sole, physical, joint...she would probably need to explain what caused her to leave, but short of her being in jail for some kind of serious crime, it is hard to imagine her rights to her children wouldn't be restored. If she even lost them to begin with, of course.

 

[believe09]

From Peliman's link:

"If Henderson detectives find Koecher and he does not want officers to notify his family, they won't. They will honor that request and remove him from the National Criminal Information Computer, also known as NCIC, as a missing person, just as they would with any other adult who walked away and wants to stay away. Case closed."

 

[Annie_61]

Davis said in an interview Thursday that the computer hard drives have been sent to technicians to see if any files or history can be recovered that might lead to Gail Palmgren.
“We’ve sent them off to see what’s on them,” he said. “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/08/missing-palmgren-computers-turned-over- defense-att/.

This really caught my eye in that article, so even if they did find something that showed guilt on MP’s part it would not have to be revealed by his attorney and as long as the computers are with the attorney the LE would have a hard fight to get a search warrant for them.

“To me, the problem seems to be, he seems to be in possession of the computer (law enforcement) doesn’t know he has and won’t be able to discover otherwise,” Oliver said.
Clients’ statements of guilt are protected by attorney-client privilege under law.
The fact that Matthew Palmgren’s attorneys are in possession of the computers does not mean they’re exempt from a search warrant in the future.
However, Oliver said most judges are reluctant to grant warrants for law offices because of the confidential files contained on criminal cases.


As things stand at the moment Gail is a missing woman and one of the people that would have motive to remove her had his computers sent somewhere. My problem with the statement is why not give them to the LE to have analysed, nobody can say for sure what would be done to the computers plus the LE would have in their own mind what would be helpful to them which might be totally different to the things the people they were sent to would look for. If there was nothing on them why not hand them straight to police to check :waitasec: or can we compare this to the Powell case and wonder if the computers might contain other illegal information not related to Gail....Just a thought I had

 

[Annie_61]

Again I am trying to get my head around something, the theory that the LE have decided that Gail is setting up a new life and have put this case on the back burn and will only look more into the case if something crops up. If you look at the weeks leading up to Gail’s disappearance there is no doubt she was planning on leaving MP, not her life and children. So for her to make that change in a few hours just seems amazing. I would have thought for someone to have made such a successful” leave my life behind” move and not be seen or heard of for nearly 5 months there would have had to have been a lot of planning, setting up etc.

1) Find housing.
2) Get a fake identity.
3) Get rid of the Jeep and purchase new vehicle.
4) Set up a new bank account. (Do you need and ID to set up
accounts in the US?)
5) Find employment (apart from sweat shop sort of work can you get
a job in the US without valid ID)
6) Buy whole new wardrobe (it didn’t sound like she took clothing with
her but I could be wrong)
7) Change looks
8) Be mentally prepared to cut off all contact with loved ones
including children (that’s a biggie in my eyes) and be prepared for
media attention given to you being a missing person.

Now I know it is very possible to create a whole new life and not be found if that is what you want, but do we really believe that it can be done easily and without the chance of being found if not fully planned for. I think if there was any sign of planning like that on the computers MP’s attorney would be waving it around like a banner saying see we found this. (he didn’t hesitate to put info out there to try and make Gail look mentally disturbed).

The whole new life theory is again one with a happy ending as in Gail is alive, but just not one I can get my head around.

Just some more random thoughts I have been running through my head.

 

[Melodie]

From Peliman's link:

"If Henderson detectives find Koecher and he does not want officers to notify his family, they won't. They will honor that request and remove him from the National Criminal Information Computer, also known as NCIC, as a missing person, just as they would with any other adult who walked away and wants to stay away. Case closed."

What do you think they would say after that if approached by family members or the media with inquiries about the investigation? Would they tell them the case was closed or would they say they are still investigating and have no new information to report and it's still a "missing persons case under investigation"? Just curious how in the world that would be handled because if they say the case is closed, that will kind of let the family know what's going on. If they say it's still a missing persons case under investigation, that's lying and would open them up to continued eternal questioning on the matter.

 

[McSpy]

:goodpost:

BBM- Thank you. This was an answer to a question I asked a couple of days ago. I wanted to know if others felt that the behavior of LE suggests that they are thinking foul play and therefore, keeping everything under wraps and wouldn't things be different if they really were thinking Gail just walked away. Thank you for your opinion and I completely agree with you.

Any serious investigator would be looking at MP under a microscope. I'm guessing LE is holding everything close to the vest. They may be just as frustrated as we are . . .

JMO

 

[McSpy]

What do you think they would say after that if approached by family members or the media with inquiries about the investigation? Would they tell them the case was closed or would they say they are still investigating and have no new information to report and it's still a "missing persons case under investigation"? Just curious how in the world that would be handled because if they say the case is closed, that will kind of let the family know what's going on. If they say it's still a missing persons case under investigation, that's lying and would open them up to continued eternal questioning on the matter.

IMO, they cannot say the case is closed, unless they find Gail-- dead or alive, and if she is not alive, they'll need to find out what happened. If it was a crime, they will try to find the culprit. If they find Gail hiding in another state and she refuses to let anyone know of her whereabouts, LE will still tell the family that they located her. However, they may not disclose her location, because of her wishes.

 

[McSpy]

I'm hoping they run out of money for their lawyers. This can go on for a looooong time. LE should approach the lawyers for all possible questions to keep the meter running . . .$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[glorias]

I think this is one of the those statements we tend to filter through the lens of our assumptions, somewhat like what Pearl was referring to a few posts back. If we believe that MP and his attorneys are up to no good we immediately assume this refers to nefarious behavior on their part to cover up. If not, we read it much like you did, assuming it refers to files that could have been deleted in the normal manner of use by anyone using the computer.

None of us knows which is true, but it's always bugged me that this statement has been used to assume that MP and his attorneys were erasing incriminating files. I'm not saying that couldn't have happened, but this statement alone does not mean that did happen. Yet it's one of those things that seems to be assumed as fact by many.

Many? My recollection is that one or two people think it means files were erased. I may be wrong, but I think most people just believe it's part of improper behavior. I'm only speaking for myself here, though, when I say I don't see it as proof that they're erasing "incriminating" files. I see the whole situation as problematic for several reasons. And yes, I'm posting this in a list again:

1. They chose to take the computers and send them off to a private facility while they were telling LE you can't search unless you follow our rules;

2. If you read the whole article, you'll see Davis doesn't even know if LE knows they have the computers. That means they didn't even tell LE they had the computers;

3. The statement "if files are deleted, they're deleted" sounds incredibly dismissive. It sounds like it's said with a shrug.

The last thing is an opinion of mine, yes, but the first two aren't just my assumptions, they are based on what I read in news articles. So I personally do not accept the idea that I'm just "assuming" because I have a preconceived notion.