TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

[BeanE]

The challenge I have with this is that no papers had been filed and no attorney has stepped forward, at least in the public domain, indicating he/she was retained by Gail. Matt allegedly hired Hoss and co on the day he reported her missing, is that correct?

So neither appears to have been represented prior to Gail's disappearance, other than possibly by PI's...

Matt had made an appointment the week before to see attorney on Tue May 3, the day after he filed the missing person report, so I *think* May 3 is the day he retained the attorneys & the PIs. It's the closest I've been able to come for a date. He had to have retained them by Thu May 5, because on Fri May 6, they filed docs on his behalf.

I haven't seen anything about Matt having a PI prior to that - only Gail. Gail having a PI comes only from Arlene. I'd love to have some confirmation that Gail had a PI.

 

[Oriah]

Bean, you know what has me most confused about the PI situation?

The location of Gail's jeep, along with the cell phone pings from both Gail and Matt's phones- as well as any pings that might have come from alternate phones (such as LE, AD, etc.)

I know the two issues seem unrelated. But wouldn't either PI (if in fact there are two involved) have already researched this info, and possibly tagged three vehicles prior to Gail's disappearence?

So why can't we locate the Jeep?

 

[Some1Nose]

Snipped for brevity...

The location of Gail's jeep, along with the cell phone pings from both Gail and Matt's phones- as well as any pings that might have come from alternate phones (such as LE, AD, etc.)

I know the two issues seem unrelated. But wouldn't either PI (if in fact there are two involved) have already researched this info, and possibly tagged three vehicles prior to Gail's disappearence?

So why can't we locate the Jeep?

Do we even know for a fact that the main players' cell phone records have been requested by investigators other than hearing that a cell phone ping from GP's phone was discovered on May 2nd near the base of SM, on the back side?

Oriah, does LE need to request a SAR search or can family members of a missing person or their legal representatives and investigators request a SAR search, as well?

 

[fbx]

BBM. And we know that subsequently LE and Gail talked, and we know that LE has never revealed what they talked about.

Perhaps Gail told LE in that phone call that she was leaving.

I have noodled on that, and it would make a lot of things make sense.[/QUOTE]

Your noodling is great and is always interesting to read, but in this case I am wondering...if they knew she had left voluntarily...why spend money on air and water searches and man-hours to investigate...surely they would have left it with smpd and fielded the bad PR?? I don't know enough about how LE works, but it seems that Hamilton County wouldn't spend money unless they think there's good reason to?

 

[BeanE]

Bean, you know what has me most confused about the PI situation?

The location of Gail's jeep, along with the cell phone pings from both Gail and Matt's phones- as well as any pings that might have come from alternate phones (such as LE, AD, etc.)

I know the two issues seem unrelated. But wouldn't either PI (if in fact there are two involved) have already researched this info, and possibly tagged three vehicles prior to Gail's disappearence?

So why can't we locate the Jeep?

Has LE gotten Gail's phone records to get her pings? A tweet from a reporter yesterday indicates they haven't, because they don't have probable cause to get a subpoena for them.

Who was Gail's PI working for after Thu Apr 28th that they would have researched Gail's and Matt's pings for?

If Gail tossed her phone on Mountain Creek Rd where the last cell activity was reported to be (where did that info come from since it didn't come from LE?), and then she drove, say, to the lake house, or New York, or Mexico, or New England, then the pings wouldn't lead you to the Jeep, would they?

If Gail committed suicide by driving into a body of water, say Lake Jordan, then Matt's pings aren't going to lead to her Jeep, are they?

What happens to a cell's pings when a cell goes into a body of water?

 

[BeanE]

Your noodling is great and is always interesting to read, but in this case I am wondering...if they knew she had left voluntarily...why spend money on air and water searches and man-hours to investigate...surely they would have left it with smpd and fielded the bad PR?? I don't know enough about how LE works, but it seems that Hamilton County wouldn't spend money unless they think there's good reason to?

I haven't seen any reports on air searches, other than that they were planned. They've done little in the way of water searches - they haven't even searched Lake Jordan.

As to why they'd do air/water searches - that would include if they theorize that she may have committed suicide or had a car accident. I think LE finds both to be good reasons to expend funds.

 

[BeanE]

I'm unclear on whether Gail and Diane talked 2 times or 3 times on Apr 30. Can anyone clarify? Is #3 actually a part of #2? Or are they separate calls, giving us a total of 3?


1) 6:30am Gail/Diane talk. Gail says she's going back to SM.
http://www.thewetumpkaherald.com/news/article_be9da4a6-832f-11e0-990c-001cc4c03286.html


2) Gail/Diane talk. Gail begs Diane to call LE and have them meet her at the SM house.
She told Eyewitness News hours before her sister was last seen, Gail begged her to call police while leaving the family's Alabama lake house. She wanted police at her Signal Mountain home when she arrived.
"They did have some marital problems," said Nichols, who says her sister never said why she wanted her to call police. "Maybe she was possibly seeing coming home and having some kind of confrontation with her husband."
Police called Gail at her sister's request, but details of that conversation haven't been released, not even to Nichols. She believes her Gail is still out there.
http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14987811


* Gail/LE talk. Contents of conversation unknown.


3) 12:15 Gail/Diane talk. Gail keeps saying she's scared. Hard to figure out what she's saying, something about she thinks she's being followed. This is just before she drives off from the SM house.

Transcribed from the video starting at approx. 00:56

Reporter: Her whereabouts are a mystery that's only been intensified by Palmgren's last conversation with her sister, moments before she was last seen.

Diane: She was nervous. She was anxious. She sounded scared.

Reporter: The Nichols say they couldn't get Palmgren to say why she was scared though, but they did make out this much...

Diane: She just said that she thought, you know, she was being followed
http://www.myfoxchattanooga.com/story/14651377/search-continues-for-missing-signal-mountain-woman

and

Gail Palmgren's whereabouts are a mystery that has only been intensified by her last conversation with her sister Diane, moments before Palmgren was last seen.
http://m.newschannel9.com/news/palmgren-1001216-nichols-last.html

and

JBean 05-19-2011, 11:11 PM
If the phone call was moments after she was least seen that would make the call on 4/30 somewhere between 12 and 12:15,imo.

and

JBean 06-04-2011, 01:30 AM
She had her phone at least up until noonish 4/30.

 

[Oriah]

Do we even know for a fact that the main players' cell phone records have been requested by investigators other than hearing that a cell phone ping from GP's phone was discovered on May 2nd near the base of SM, on the back side?

Oriah, does LE need to request a SAR search or can family members of a missing person or their legal representatives and investigators request a SAR search, as well?

Some1- do you mean if cell records have been requested by PI's, or by LE... or both?
I'm not certain either way. But it is easy enough to do; and even easier done when the account holder consents. I would think if both Gail and Matt had PI's, they would have already done this. Whether seeking information to be used in a divorce case, or to be used to locate a missing person. Kwim? :waitasec:

If Gail's phone was in her possession on May 2nd, and she was with her Jeep at that time, at the base of SM on the W side (of the ping)... then the Jeep should be able to be located using satellite and cell pings. And it seems like it would be even easier if PI(s) had tagged Gail's vehicle.

In regard to requesting a search- it depends. Some SAR organizations will take requests from family and/or PI's etc, without LE support. Some will not.
Imvho, it is much more wise to attempt to go through LE SAR efforts, before requesting SAR from other sources. LE (on all levels) generally will contact private SAR if they have exceeded their resources, and need help.

On the flip side of the coin; if there is distrust, or lack of communication, or frustration with LE on the part of family or friends with how a missing persons' case is being handled... then many SAR groups will take this into account if requested.

JMO of course. Does that make sense?

 

[Jade]

I know what the old timers say about HCSD and CPD but times have changed.

Many of the officers and reserve officers are active Guard and there is lots of young war Veterans.

It really pains me to read sweeping innuendos about their departments when they have dedicated their lives to the dangerous, low paying occupation of protection of the citizens locally as LE and nationally by serving our country during military engagements.

Any information regarding improprieties should be reported, of course.

The law as it stands will have to be followed in due course by LE in order for there to be a successful court case if it ever comes to that end and imo they need our support.

For all we know the boxes being carried out of the homes were part of the MP/BCBS actions and could have been documentation, computers, paperwork etc that needed to be returned to BCBS or gathered at MPs attorney’s office for review.

I feel sorry for SMPD because its reported usual tenacity and diligence may have been compromised with the disastrous results of the tornados on the region.

I know there were complaints posted about SMDP nosiness and thoroughness of applying the law but I have a parent in a private community who pays for such attentiveness and still doesn’t get the level of protection that the SM residents complained about!

All IMO

 

[Emeralgem]

I could very well be wrong but my understanding is the (attorney) friend down in Alabama is the one handling MP's case against BCBS not Davis and Hoss...To my knoweldge Mike Mathis is not employed by the attorney (friend) down in Alabama....JMHO

 

[hollyblue]

Has LE gotten Gail's phone records to get her pings? A tweet from a reporter yesterday indicates they haven't, because they don't have probable cause to get a subpoena for them.

Who was Gail's PI working for after Thu Apr 28th that they would have researched Gail's and Matt's pings for?

If Gail tossed her phone on Mountain Creek Rd where the last cell activity was reported to be (where did that info come from since it didn't come from LE?), and then she drove, say, to the lake house, or New York, or Mexico, or New England, then the pings wouldn't lead you to the Jeep, would they?

If Gail committed suicide by driving into a body of water, say Lake Jordan, then Matt's pings aren't going to lead to her Jeep, are they?

What happens to a cell's pings when a cell goes into a body of water?

BBM: WTH? Picking myself up off the floor. A woman is missing--- is that not probable cause to AT LEAST search her cell phone records? Even if they don't think foul play is involved. Nothing at you Bean, just my frustrations, but this is just unbelieveable, a D shame, or pure negligence. IMO.

I'm not feeling very good or hopeful about this case at all anymore. Hoping it's just my hormones today, but I feel for every female in that area who has domestic issues and may have to deal with LE there. :maddening:
They should be outraged and should be speaking out. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Some1- do you mean if cell records have been requested by PI's, or by LE... or both?
I'm not certain either way. But it is easy enough to do; and even easier done when the account holder consents. I would think if both Gail and Matt had PI's, they would have already done this. Whether seeking information to be used in a divorce case, or to be used to locate a missing person. Kwim? :waitasec:

If Gail's phone was in her possession on May 2nd, and she was with her Jeep at that time, at the base of SM on the W side (of the ping)... then the Jeep should be able to be located using satellite and cell pings. And it seems like it would be even easier if PI(s) had tagged Gail's vehicle.

In regard to requesting a search- it depends. Some SAR organizations will take requests from family and/or PI's etc, without LE support. Some will not.
Imvho, it is much more wise to attempt to go through LE SAR efforts, before requesting SAR from other sources. LE (on all levels) generally will contact private SAR if they have exceeded their resources, and need help.

On the flip side of the coin; if there is distrust, or lack of communication, or frustration with LE on the part of family or friends with how a missing persons' case is being handled... then many SAR groups will take this into account if requested.

JMO of course. Does that make sense?

\

Duh here. What do mean by her vehicle being "tagged".? TIA

 

[Oriah]

Sorry, holly!

I meant GPS or any other locating surveillance that might be of aid in the future, of any possibly involved vehicles.

I just can't see how a PI hired by either GP or MP for any purpose would fail to do this- at the very least for the safety and protection of their own client? You know?

 

[happy409]

CHATTANOOGA (WRCB) - The Hamilton County District Attorney's Office is asking for the Governor's help in the search for a missing Signal Mountain mother.

On Wednesday, District Attorney General Bill Cox submitted a letter to the Governor's Legal Counsel requesting a reward for information related to the disappearance of Gail Palmgren.

In the letter, Cox adds a new piece of information in to the disappearance, stating "she last spoke to her estranged husband, Matthew Palmgren, on April 30, 2011 and since that date no reported communication with her has existed."

Previously, no information about communication with Gail Palmgren following a dispute with her husband had been released.

ETA: Obviously they do have cell phone records!


http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15075938/da-asks-for-governors-help-in-palmgren-case

 

[Emeralgem]

BBM: WTH? Picking myself up off the floor. A woman is missing--- is that not probable cause to AT LEAST search her cell phone records? Even if they don't think foul play is involved. Nothing at you Bean, just my frustrations, but this is just unbelieveable, a D shame, or pure negligence. IMO.

I'm not feeling very good or hopeful about this case at all anymore. Hoping it's just my hormones today, but I feel for every female in that area who has domestic issues and may have to deal with LE there. :maddening:
They should be outraged and should be speaking out. JMO

I agree wholeheartedly this is just unbleievable, a D shame or pure neglience..... The very fact she disappeared w/o a trace on the 30th after going to SMPD on the 29th should give them reason enough to suspect foul play is involved.. FGS.. SMPD gave her a number for a safe house to get away from him.. IF that isn't reason enough to suspect foul play could be involved, I don't know what is....Not to mention she called her sister and asked her to call SMPD.. She desperately wanted them to meet her at her house when she arrived home on the 30th.. JMHO

 

[hollyblue]

CHATTANOOGA (WRCB) - The Hamilton County District Attorney's Office is asking for the Governor's help in the search for a missing Signal Mountain mother.

On Wednesday, District Attorney General Bill Cox submitted a letter to the Governor's Legal Counsel requesting a reward for information related to the disappearance of Gail Palmgren.

In the letter, Cox adds a new piece of information in to the disappearance, stating "she last spoke to her estranged husband, Matthew Palmgren, on April 30, 2011 and since that date no reported communication with her has existed."

Previously, no information about communication with Gail Palmgren following a dispute with her husband had been released.

ETA: Obviously they do have cell phone records!


http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15075938/da-asks-for-governors-help-in-palmgren-case

I hope your right and it's not D & H or his PI just now coming forward...with a bit of info.

I so wish we had all the communications on her cell from 4/28-4/30.

She saw his car there unexpectedly on 4/29 and drove to the police station...and he followed her there. Argument insues. So he must have been home? Not quite clear on this.

 

[fran]

Perhaps the additional reward money will loosen some lips.

just sayin'
fran

 

[happy409]

I hope your right and it's not D & H or his PI just now coming forward...with a bit of info.

I so wish we had all the communications on her cell from 4/28-4/30.

She saw his car there unexpectedly on 4/29 and drove to the police station...and he followed her there. Argument insues. So he must have been home? Not quite clear on this.

Not sure I understand what you mean. This was from the breaking news article I posted. It states the 30th, not the 29th. I assume 'someone' or 'cell phone records' gave the DA confirmed information Matt last spoke to Gail on the 30th, and there was no other communication from her since...JMHO

Based on this quote in the article from DA Cox "In the letter, Cox adds a new piece of information in to the disappearance, stating "she last spoke to her estranged husband, Matthew Palmgren, on April 30, 2011 and since that date no reported communication with her has existed."

I hope that clears that up.

 

[BeanE]

I hope your right and it's not D & H or his PI just now coming forward...with a bit of info.

I so wish we had all the communications on her cell from 4/28-4/30.

She saw his car there unexpectedly on 4/29 and drove to the police station...and he followed her there. Argument insues. So he must have been home? Not quite clear on this.

BBM. Hi holly. Could you share where you got the info that she saw his car and drove to the PD and he followed her there?

TIA

 

[happy409]

I know what the old timers say about HCSD and CPD but times have changed.

Many of the officers and reserve officers are active Guard and there is lots of young war Veterans.

It really pains me to read sweeping innuendos about their departments when they have dedicated their lives to the dangerous, low paying occupation of protection of the citizens locally as LE and nationally by serving our country during military engagements.

Any information regarding improprieties should be reported, of course.

The law as it stands will have to be followed in due course by LE in order for there to be a successful court case if it ever comes to that end and imo they need our support.

For all we know the boxes being carried out of the homes were part of the MP/BCBS actions and could have been documentation, computers, paperwork etc that needed to be returned to BCBS or gathered at MPs attorney’s office for review.

I feel sorry for SMPD because its reported usual tenacity and diligence may have been compromised with the disastrous results of the tornados on the region.

I know there were complaints posted about SMDP nosiness and thoroughness of applying the law but I have a parent in a private community who pays for such attentiveness and still doesn’t get the level of protection that the SM residents complained about!

All IMO

It's all been speculation (or known cases shared here) and it is what it is, but no one is saying we respect them less or should respect them more for their military service? Signal Mountain Police Department does not have the resources for this type of case. Period. There are many known domestic disturbances (verbal altercations as in the Palmgren case) and MOST end up fine after a cooling off period. This could be the ONE case based on the outcome that may have them reevaluate how they handle these cases, but prior to that there was never a need. JMHO