TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #25

[OldSteve]

Another article by Isabelle to dispute the differences

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-lauren-spierer-missing-officials-don-t-believe-cases-are-connected

Still, it would not surprise me if it turned out they are related. Actually, allot of things won't surprise me at this point!

 

[goldiegirl]

It's so sad to see this going nowhere. I log on every day to check Holly's thread. For some reason, this case has captivated me like none of the others that I follow. Maybe it's because I'm only a few years apart in age from Holly, maybe it's because I grew up in an area that looked similar to her small town... I have no idea what it is, but I'll think about her all the time until this is solved and long after.

 

[shefner]

It's so sad to see this going nowhere. I log on every day to check Holly's thread. For some reason, this case has captivated me like none of the others that I follow. Maybe it's because I'm only a few years apart in age from Holly, maybe it's because I grew up in an area that looked similar to her small town... I have no idea what it is, but I'll think about her all the time until this is solved and long after.

I know what you mean , Goldie...I was so hopeful this case would long ago be resolved. I don't understand what went wrong.

 

[iluvmua]

This case really is a mystery......

What happened to Holly after she was led into the woods????

That is the biggest piece of the puzzle right here.

 

[wfgodot]

They weren't really "good old days" - after all, a 19-year-old young woman was missing and assumed kidnapped - but I do remember an earlier time in this case when it seemed like publicity and top of the fold headlines were almost guaranteed until it was solved: a pretty blonde nursing student taken by force; her cousin - a pretty blonde country music singer - leading the call for justice; the case going nationwide with its appearance on TV; and a whole region mobilized in a ground search for the missing girl.

At one point a debate almost broke out on one of the Holly threads about some crime victims unfairly getting less attention and devotion in media than those victims deemed to have more viewer appeal.

Well, those days are gone.

Sorting out what went wrong won't bring Holly back, but it might provide an object-lesson for law enforcement
in how to handle similar cases in the future. For whatever reason, resources were not governed wisely here.

 

[mountainguy777]

:twocents:

This case really is a mystery......

What happened to Holly after she was led into the woods????

That is the biggest piece of the puzzle right here.

I don't think she ever made it into the woods. Like fuhrman said, the dogs scent stopped at the entrance to the woods.

 

[shefner]

If Holly never made it into the woods, then I wonder why the perp would take her in that direction. There would be no purpose to drag or lead her towards that area. If she never went into the woods, then why would her brother state that is where the perp took her?
So many unanswered questions....

 

[MLE]

Maybe he picked her up and carried her (picture a soldier carrying a wounded comrade) once they made it to the woods. Or perhaps the vegetation was sparse enough to drive an ATV.

 

[goldiegirl]

I don't know the layout of her street, but isn't it possible that he parked a car/atv/whatever it was off to the side of the house, and this is why they were walking toward the woods? He had to have had a vehicle somewhere, IMO. At first it seemed like this was some sort of Elizabeth Smart-like case with a creep who took her into the woods and set up camp, but I don't really believe that anymore.

I think a vehicle was hidden somewhere behind the house but off to the side or something like that. In order to get to the vehicle, he'd have to lead her behind the house (toward the woods), and that's probably as much as Clint saw. Since he initially said he didn't think anything of it and thought it was DS (this part wasn't included in the later versions, but I'm going off of the initial one for this idea), he probably didn't watch them the whole time they were walking; he probably just glanced out, saw them walking, and turned away. He might have seen them walking TOWARD the woods, but maybe after he stopped watching they veered off in another direction after getting to the tree line. Just a possibility.

If Holly never made it into the woods, then I wonder why the perp would take her in that direction. There would be no purpose to drag or lead her towards that area. If she never went into the woods, then why would her brother state that is where the perp took her?
So many unanswered questions....

 

[Oriah]

:twocents:


I don't think she ever made it into the woods. Like fuhrman said, the dogs scent stopped at the entrance to the woods.

Just wanted to pop in here with a few thoughts regarding SAR dogs. (Using your post, mountainguy777 as a jumping point, not to disagree.)

I'm a bit confused by the tracking/trailing situation- or possibly the reporting of- Holly's scent 'stopping' at the woodline.

If Holly were lead in a different direction at the woodline, a properly trained dog would do a roundabout and continue to follow the scent, no matter the direction it took.

If placed in a vehicle at the woodline, then it would be much more difficult to pick up a scent after that point (assuming the vehicle traveled, and the individual was picked up and placed in the vehicle to begin with.)

Either way, it seems to me that a tracking or trailing dog should alert when they lost scent and backtrack the initial path of the missing person...

Did the dog(s) trailing Holly's scent stop at the woodline- and then return to the car?

 

[goldiegirl]

Just wanted to pop in here with a few thoughts regarding SAR dogs. (Using your post, mountainguy777 as a jumping point, not to disagree.)

I'm a bit confused by the tracking/trailing situation- or possibly the reporting of- Holly's scent 'stopping' at the woodline.

If Holly were lead in a different direction at the woodline, a properly trained dog would do a roundabout and continue to follow the scent, no matter the direction it took.

If placed in a vehicle at the woodline, then it would be much more difficult to pick up a scent after that point (assuming the vehicle traveled, and the individual was picked up and placed in the vehicle to begin with.)

Either way, it seems to me that a tracking or trailing dog should alert when they lost scent and backtrack the initial path of the missing person...

Did the dog(s) trailing Holly's scent stop at the woodline- and then return to the car?

Wow, what was I thinking about the dogs not going off to the side like I suggested? I didn't even take the dogs into consideration when I wrote my possible scenario. Obviously, you are correct. The dog would not stop at the woodline rather than go off to the side (as if the beginning of the woods would mean anything to the dog, haha). Well, there goes that.

I guess the only way the theory I suggested could have still been possible would be if the dogs weren't properly trained or if someone did carry her beyond a certain point. I guess, taking the dogs out of the picture, it made a lot more sense to me for her to have been led TOWARD the woods and into a vehicle/house/whatever rather than into the woods, so that's where I was coming from with that.

 

[BeanE]

Just wanted to pop in here with a few thoughts regarding SAR dogs. (Using your post, mountainguy777 as a jumping point, not to disagree.)

I'm a bit confused by the tracking/trailing situation- or possibly the reporting of- Holly's scent 'stopping' at the woodline.

If Holly were lead in a different direction at the woodline, a properly trained dog would do a roundabout and continue to follow the scent, no matter the direction it took.

If placed in a vehicle at the woodline, then it would be much more difficult to pick up a scent after that point (assuming the vehicle traveled, and the individual was picked up and placed in the vehicle to begin with.)

Either way, it seems to me that a tracking or trailing dog should alert when they lost scent and backtrack the initial path of the missing person...

Did the dog(s) trailing Holly's scent stop at the woodline- and then return to the car?

Hi, Oriah! :grouphug:

The information comes from only one source, and this teeny bit of info is all that's available about it:

Video – Frustration Mounts in Search for Holly Bobo
Fox News Geraldo at Large – Apr 25, 2011- 10:40am

Case Signal Transcriptions:

- Mark Furman @ 7:14: “I called Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. I actually talked to a dispatcher. I talked to somebody in the Sheriff’s department.”

- Mark Furman @ 8:39: “When I called Tennessee, I also found out that the dogs did not scent anything in that treeline where they supposedly entered.”

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4661350/frustration-mounts-in-search-for-holly-bobo

As you can see, it's unclear who exactly he got the info from. It may have only been a dispatcher, and we don't know who at the Sheriff's dept he talked to - could have been a secretary or a janitor. We don't even know when he says he "called TN" if he's referring to either of those agencies.

 

[Oriah]

Hi, Oriah! :grouphug:

The information comes from only one source, and this teeny bit of info is all that's available about it:

Video – Frustration Mounts in Search for Holly Bobo
Fox News Geraldo at Large – Apr 25, 2011- 10:40am

Case Signal Transcriptions:

- Mark Furman @ 7:14: “I called Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. I actually talked to a dispatcher. I talked to somebody in the Sheriff’s department.”

- Mark Furman @ 8:39: “When I called Tennessee, I also found out that the dogs did not scent anything in that treeline where they supposedly entered.”

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4661350/frustration-mounts-in-search-for-holly-bobo

As you can see, it's unclear who exactly he got the info from. It may have only been a dispatcher, and we don't know who at the Sheriff's dept he talked to - could have been a secretary or a janitor. We don't even know when he says he "called TN" if he's referring to either of those agencies.

Thanks, BeanE. It seems like so many of the cases we've been seeing have questionable reporting of evidence found/ or not found by SAR- dogs especially.

The timeline for the report on Holly's disappearance, and the 911 calls- mother returning home, etc- fortunately fall within a very vital time frame for tracking/trailing dogs.

But I can't understand how dogs brought in during that time frame would simply 'lose scent' in such an environment described during Holly's abduction. Does that make any sense?

What piece is missing from this puzzle??

 

[docwho3]

I have heard of dogs losing scent at the point a person enters a vehicle.
LE had released that the were looking for any info such as an ATV
being reported stolen and so forth so I am thinking they believe she may
have been taken that way.

An ATV not being enclosed but still able to move fast enough so that not
much scent particles were left behind might be the reason for scent loss.
I have no real knowledge in this area other than stuff I have read so this
is all a guess.

 

[MLE]

Is there a map that shows where the scent stopped and where the scream is thought to have occurred?

 

[iluvmua]

I have heard of dogs losing scent at the point a person enters a vehicle.
LE had released that the were looking for any info such as an ATV
being reported stolen and so forth so I am thinking they believe she may
have been taken that way.

An ATV not being enclosed but still able to move fast enough so that not
much scent particles were left behind might be the reason for scent loss.
I have no real knowledge in this area other than stuff I have read so this
is all a guess.

I believe that there was most likely a Car/Truck/SUV/Van waiting on the side of the road. Once Holly was subdued, they were off and running.

They would not get very far on an ATV.

 

[MLE]

I believe that there was most likely a Car/Truck/SUV/Van waiting on the side of the road. Once Holly was subdued, they were off and running.

They would not get very far on an ATV.

But it seems plausible that an ATV could've been used as a transportation device between the edge of the woods and the truck, especially if she was heard screaming a considerable distance from the edge of the woods. I doubt she was inside a car or truck when she was heard screaming.

 

[TxLady2]

Maybe he picked her up and carried her (picture a soldier carrying a wounded comrade) once they made it to the woods. Or perhaps the vegetation was sparse enough to drive an ATV.

Even if he picked her up and carried her, or put her on an ATV, her scent would still have been in the air enough for the dogs to keep tracking her scent, I think. Just guessing, of course. I know it's the skin particles that give off the scent, so not being on the ground walking would not make that much of a difference, IMO.
It's just puzzling that the trail stopped at the tree line. It had to go somewhere, she didn't just evaporate.

 

[shefner]

Even if he picked her up and carried her, or put her on an ATV, her scent would still have been in the air enough for the dogs to keep tracking her scent, I think. Just guessing, of course. I know it's the skin particles that give off the scent, so not being on the ground walking would not make that much of a difference, IMO.
It's just puzzling that the trail stopped at the tree line. It had to go somewhere, she didn't just evaporate.

This is what I was thinking also. What happened at the treeline?

 

[Silkprint]

I don't see anything about poor Holly on the news here in Mass at all anywmore .
Actually ANYWHERE ..except here .
I would think that these dogs are used to tracking through the heavy woods there .
If they lost her scent at the treeline then she never entered those woods .