TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #25

[Oriah]

I don't see anything about poor Holly on the news here in Mass at all anywmore .
Actually ANYWHERE ..except here .
I would think that these dogs are used to tracking through the heavy woods there .
If they lost her scent at the treeline then she never entered those woods .[/quote]


BBM: I 100% agree, Silkprint. Unless they were improperly trained dogs, or the reporting of last seen is incorrect?

Why would the dog(s) used not return to the carport if scent stopped at the tree line, and Holly was witnessed walking towards the woods??

This makes no sense to me. None.

 

[BeanE]

I don't see anything about poor Holly on the news here in Mass at all anywmore .
Actually ANYWHERE ..except here .
I would think that these dogs are used to tracking through the heavy woods there .
If they lost her scent at the treeline then she never entered those woods .[/quote]


BBM: I 100% agree, Silkprint. Unless they were improperly trained dogs, or the reporting of last seen is incorrect?

Why would the dog(s) used not return to the carport if scent stopped at the tree line, and Holly was witnessed walking towards the woods??

This makes no sense to me. None.

Or, since we've heard this from one and only one person, who's not involved in the case, and wasn't even there, and we don't know where he got the info, maybe it's not true that the dogs stopped at the treeline.

Don't get me wrong - I like Mark Furman. I'm just not sure of his source on this, and no one else has stated it.

 

[Oriah]

Or, since we've heard this from one and only one person, who's not involved in the case, and wasn't even there, and we don't know where he got the info, maybe it's not true that the dogs stopped at the treeline.

Don't get me wrong - I like Mark Furman. I'm just not sure of his source on this, and no one else has stated it.

I agree, BeanE.

Perhaps LE could clarify this for us- because otherwise, I think it is a gaping hole in what happened the morning Holly disappeared.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Is there a map that shows where the scent stopped and where the scream is thought to have occurred?

No it has never really been disclosed where they were seen entering the woods. Reports vary or are vague. Since woods surround the house on all sides it makes it difficult to even guess. Depending on the direction they were going the woods can be a few yards to maybe 50 yards from the house itself.

Based on what LE has said about car tires, ATV tires, etc. I assume they think the kidnapper had a vehicle parked in the woods/by the woods/in the tree line/on a trail behind the treeline, etc. It could even be on the main road at the end of the long driveway and no one would see it from the house.

 

[BeanE]

Agreed, Carla.

If you go in this video and stop it at 2:28, you'll be facing the back yard, same as Clint was. Looking in any direction, there are woods, and not only woods, but look at all those little roads.

We know Clint saw Holly and the abductor going "across the carport", "towards the woods" or "into the woods", but we don't know which direction. Hardly matters, because no matter where you look, there are woods - and those troubling little access roads.

YouTube - ‪Criminal Profiler Pat Brown discusses missing girl Holly Bobo on MSNBC Live‬‏

There's another video in which a reporter asks Gwyn from TBI if there are access roads through there where a vehicle could have been waiting, and Gwyn says yes. Wish I could remember exactly what he said, and seeing his body language/hearing his voice, he was very emphatic, and that's when I became sure Holly was pretty immediately put in a vehicle and taken away that way.

I'll try to find this video in a bit. I want to see if anything happens when they bring the jury in for the Anthony trial this morning. Then I'll look for the Gwyn video.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped from BeanE:

<We know Clint saw Holly and the abductor going "across the carport", "towards the woods" or "into the woods", but we don't know which direction. Hardly matters, because no matter where you look, there are woods - and those troubling little access roads.>

I understand what you're saying, Bean- but it does matter when factoring in the dog's losing scent factor. Kwim? If it is both true that Holly was last seen entering the woods somewhere- and that tracking or trailing dogs lost scent at the woodline....then the exact coordinates of where they specifically lost scent would give an indication of what route may have been traveled by a vehicle- and what size vehicle.

If the dogs just lost scent, and didn't double back to the carport- I am skeptical of either the reporting of the 'woods' location... and/or the training of the dogs- because if both ARE true...then the direction of travel should have been relatively easy to predict (N/S/E/W)

Does that make any sense? Or am I confusing again?!

 

[shefner]

We have heard that Holly's dad is searching those woods daily.....so that leads me to think that her family believes she was taken into the woods.

I really wish we had more details about the days leading up to Holly's disappearance...and more details about the hours just after. Mostly, I want to hear those 911 tapes.

 

[Oriah]

We have heard that Holly's dad is searching those woods daily.....so that leads me to think that her family believes she was taken into the woods.

I really wish we had more details about the days leading up to Holly's disappearance...and more details about the hours just after. Mostly, I want to hear those 911 tapes.

I'd like to know the exact coordinates as to where the dog(s) lost scent in/at the woods.

 

[BeanE]

Respectfully snipped from BeanE:

<We know Clint saw Holly and the abductor going "across the carport", "towards the woods" or "into the woods", but we don't know which direction. Hardly matters, because no matter where you look, there are woods - and those troubling little access roads.>

I understand what you're saying, Bean- but it does matter when factoring in the dog's losing scent factor. Kwim? If it is both true that Holly was last seen entering the woods somewhere- and that tracking or trailing dogs lost scent at the woodline....then the exact coordinates of where they specifically lost scent would give an indication of what route may have been traveled by a vehicle- and what size vehicle.

If the dogs just lost scent, and didn't double back to the carport- I am skeptical of either the reporting of the 'woods' location... and/or the training of the dogs- because if both ARE true...then the direction of travel should have been relatively easy to predict (N/S/E/W)

Does that make any sense? Or am I confusing again?!

Oh I agree, Oriah. What I meant was that there's so much woods all around, it's hard to point to an area and say - there's the spot. I was just trying to exemplify with the video what Carla was saying.

 

[Oriah]

Oh I agree, Oriah. What I meant was that there's so much woods all around, it's hard to point to an area and say - there's the spot. I was just trying to exemplify with the video what Carla was saying.

I completely understand, Bean.
It is certainly a very heavily wooded area with both animal and vehicle trails running through.

My question is more to the access point than anything else, if that makes any sense? If the dog(s) tracked Holly to the 'edge' of the woods (or wherever) then where was that exact location?

 

[Knox]

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2011/06/23/dnt.holly.bobo.parents.speak.WBBJ.html

Clint & Family Speak.

 

[Frogzilla]

Almost three months later, it's nice to see there are still discussions about details of the day HB was abducted, but on that same note it is very unfortunate that we still have to examine every little detail to see if there is even a shred of truth to each aspect. IMO the authorities must have a good idea of what happened that morning/who may be involved to continue on with the course they have maintained and are just waiting for that "one clue" to tie it all together. The hush-hush nature of this case is perplexing, from the disinformation given and the obvious attempts to answer questions in a way that only raises more questions, it certainly makes this case seem even more complex than it probably is.
I came across this article awhile back and it is called- Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation (Michael Sweeney) http://restoredusa.blogspot.com/2010/12/25-rules-of-disinformation.html
I could not find the original source, so I linked to a blog that has posted the article.
Excerpts from article-
"3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations.
Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well.
This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'."
"12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

 

[mountainguy777]

Release the 911 tapes. Tell everyone what you know. Give people a chance in that area to help. It's been way to long to play the "giving too much may ruin the investigation" card. JMO!

 

[FXSTS]

I find it hard to discuss a lot of things about this case because I simply do not believe the information or "time line" that has been given to the public.
I believe that so much was withheld from the start that they had to pretty much fabricate a time line. Someone thought that this was the right thing to do at the time. If this is the case, it would be extremely difficult to say, " We really botched this up, here's what really happened that morning...." Just a thought but nothing we've been told about that morning makes any sense to me.

And I agree that after almost 3 months it would be hard to "compromise the integrity of an investigation that has not yet produced Holly or the perp.:twocents:

 

[shefner]

I find it hard to discuss a lot of things about this case because I simply do not believe the information or "time line" that has been given to the public.
I believe that so much was withheld from the start that they had to pretty much fabricate a time line. Someone thought that this was the right thing to do at the time. If this is the case, it would be extremely difficult to say, " We really botched this up, here's what really happened that morning...." Just a thought but nothing we've been told about that morning makes any sense to me.

And I agree that after almost 3 months it would be hard to "compromise the integrity of an investigation that has not yet produced Holly or the perp.:twocents:

I don't know if I agree with everything you have said here but, like you, I have lots of questions about what happened the morning Holly disappeared. There has to be something wrong with the information we have been given, or LE would not be hesitant to release the 911 calls, which is fairly standard in most criminal cases now. What is it in those calls that prevent them from being released to the public? Is it the timing of the calls that would throw off the timeline given? Is it the tone of the caller/s? Is it the specific names of the initial person suspected? What is it....I don't get it!

 

[Frogzilla]

I don't know if I agree with everything you have said here but, like you, I have lots of questions about what happened the morning Holly disappeared. There has to be something wrong with the information we have been given, or LE would not be hesitant to release the 911 calls, which is fairly standard in most criminal cases now. What is it in those calls that prevent them from being released to the public? Is it the timing of the calls that would throw off the timeline given? Is it the tone of the caller/s? Is it the specific names of the initial person suspected? What is it....I don't get it!

Yes I agree with this post, I have felt since the beginning there were elements of deception at play, starting with the very first reports of this story. This is all in no particular order. The story was quickly changing from the mother and brother watching HB be dragged across the carport by a man in camo, to only the brother catching a glimpse of HB and who he thought to be her boyfriend walking toward the woods. We were given the led into the woods in fear of her life statement and also a story about a possible home invasion. Also dogs losing scents, flecks or a pool of blood, a phantom scream, possibly someone excessively cleaning or selling an atv or car/truck/suv and an eerie silence by the family/LE/locals. The media has to get their information from somewhere, and even though some reports were flat out bad reporting, they still had to get the story from official sources, right?

 

[Oriah]

I agree- something is off. I wonder what exactly?

Anyway, been looking at maps of the (visable) trails all around the Bobo property- and Natchez Trace state park just for good measure...
And randomly a thought popped into my head. There appears to be a lot of horseback trails, as well as atv trails, walking trails, and animal trails.

Does anyone know if there are signs designating which are which? (Horses Only, 4-Wheelers Only, etc?)

 

[shefner]

I wonder why TE was never contacted to help in this search. As Oriah stated above, if horses are used as a means of getting through these trails, it seems logical to ask TE to help search. TE will only come if its requested by LE...and we know LE hasn't asked for much help from anyone.
Something about this case does not make sense to me at all...something is off. Not really sure what to make of it.
I hope Holly is alive somewhere. I just pray she is found either way.

 

[kas227]

I agree- something is off. I wonder what exactly?

Anyway, been looking at maps of the (visable) trails all around the Bobo property- and Natchez Trace state park just for good measure...
And randomly a thought popped into my head. There appears to be a lot of horseback trails, as well as atv trails, walking trails, and animal trails.

Does anyone know if there are signs designating which are which? (Horses Only, 4-Wheelers Only, etc?)

Oriah, Do you happen to know how populated the area is? I looked at Google maps and it appears that the residences are spaced some distance apart (of course I really couldn't tell that much from the satellite view of the Bobo property). Are maps of the area published out there somewhere on the web or did you get them from another source? The reason I ask is because I think you are definitely on to something there. I've thought the same thing for some time but didn't know of a resource for any off road maps of the area. This is my theory ... if someone were going to hide a body, even as small as Holly is, carrying dead weight a good distance wouldn't be easy. So, it would be feasible that someone could have transported her part of the way via 4 wheeler, then carried her body off trail from there to hide it deeper into the woods. Makes sense to me.

 

[BeanE]

Shefner ... I will see if I can find the YouTube address and post it. I have it written down ... just gotta find where I put it! :/

Are we allowed to do that if we don't have confirmation who the person/people in the video are? In case they're just innocent people unrelated to the case?