TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #29

[cluciano63]

I can't remember if Clint had seen the blood when he first talked to mom...if he hadn't, why the immediate panic from mom? What was happening in Holly's life to make her know something terrible had happened? Didn't Clint just say he saw her walk into the woods at that point?

 

[Flmomof2]

That always struck me as odd. Why would the mom immediately jump to conclusions and think something was wrong. Even if it wasnt her boyfriend, couldnt it be a friend, neighbor, schoolmate since hunting is so popular with the guys there?

 

[OldSteve]

I can't remember if Clint had seen the blood when he first talked to mom...if he hadn't, why the immediate panic from mom? What was happening in Holly's life to make her know something terrible had happened? Didn't Clint just say he saw her walk into the woods at that point?

IIRC KB knew something bad was happening and went into panic mode as soon as she got Clint's call. IMO her panic was because Clint thought it was Holly's BF.

ETA: trying to find the right words to express this... by Clint saying he thought it was her BF, that caused a reaction in KB which I can well understand - KB picked up on whatever wasr taking place between Holly and this person was not right, he should NOT appear like her BF since he can't be - ergo panic mode....

 

[cluciano63]

Concern, yes, but straight to panic? That seems odd to me (in this otherwise very straightforward case...)

 

[Whisperer]

When karen expressed hysteria (I assume) when clint told her it was Drew, what exactly did clint do with that information?

 

[cluciano63]

When karen expressed hysteria (I assume) when clint told her it was Drew, what exactly did clint do with that information?

I THINK that is when he went outside and saw the blood...if so, that is why I am confused as to her immediate panic, just because she didn't think it could be Drew and because Holly should have been in school. Panic seems a bit much, unless Holly was being threatened in some way prior.

 

[SmoothOperator]

But yet we have an employee of the school state that Karen was hysterically crying loudly.. Like wailing crying.. This was while still at the school when first informed by a msg that a neighbor thought they heard a scream coming from the direction of the Bobo home!!

According to other staff members Karen Bobo was immediately hysterical wailing crying.. I remarked this was extremely, extremely odd to me when this was first quoted by the fellow employee..

 

[Plumeria5]

I THINK that is when he went outside and saw the blood...if so, that is why I am confused as to her immediate panic, just because she didn't think it could be Drew and because Holly should have been in school. Panic seems a bit much, unless Holly was being threatened in some way prior.

I am wondering about threats, too. If there had been some indication of anger towards Holly (ex: threatening phone call, hang-ups, etc). And because of that, Karen surmised immediately Holly was in danger.

 

[SmoothOperator]

SmoothOp's post from May 15thOf course all Jmo.. I just wanted to make sure and say that right off the bat..

IMO much was bungled in those first moments of that first day[just as Fortress posted above^]..of course I too understand completely the communities reasons and feelings and urgency that were displayed that very first day..It was done out of nothing but complete care..concern for a fellow citizen..a young and helpless 5 foot girl weighing no more than a buck o5..panic..anger and determination were fueling these citizens moves that day..and IMO it destroyed anything that could've been used investigative wise in the coming days and weeks.. Fortress I, too saw the video of which you speak and until its seen you just really cannot comprehend the most likely damage that was done to these areas within those first 24hours...

Sadly I personally feel that LE/Investigators have very little of anything that is giving them a direction to focus or zoom in their focus and even begin to solve and figure out what happened that day and by whom.. I do not feel this way because of LE refusing to release info or evidence..That is SOP to not release these type things to the public.. What has my opinion formed this way is a combination of things.. I believe that LE releasing the info of their belief that it was a member of the community that was the perp was mainly formed just by the most likeliest of scenarios.. It's my opinion that in those first hours if not even those very first days that LE was leaning towards this being the boyfriend[I AM IN NO WAY SAYING HE IS A SUSPECT OR INVOLVED]but I believe that in beginning the investigation that of course they relied very heavily on what Clint Bobo saw and stated that he witnessed..It will not surprise me that whenever the 911 call is released[NO TIME SOON IMO]that it is quite possible that we may even hear CB state he saw Holly with her boyfriend being "led into the woods" or however it ends up being actually worded by CB himself when relaying the info to 911.. And it is because of CB's initial belief and therefor reporting of that he saw the bf with Holly outside their home that LE at the earliest stages of this investigation probably thought that most likely that was the case[just as many detectives/investigators I have known/spoke with over the years always say that the majority of the time in investigating a crime it is NOT necessary to "think out of the box" but rather think simple and keep it simple and that 9 times out of 10 that is what leads to resolution of a case]..So, I think they were keeping it simple in the beginning and in that leaned toward "IT" being just as "IT" appeared to be..BF leading Holly into the woods..

IMO that has most likely soon thereafter been nixed as a possibility due to boyfriends airtight alibi..possible passed poly..etc..etc.. or combo of several of those type things that led them to the conclusion that it was not gonna be that simple as they first thought in thinking that BF was there man.. I think this thought process in the extreme early stages of this case is what then allowed for the trampling and destroying of any/all possible other evidence not yet found or collected from the scene of the crime and its surrounding areas..

We saw the community come out in absolute full force because just as many have stated with an eyewitness..LE brought in within minutes.. and searchers and searches[alot of those not organized thru LE in the beginning IMO]quickly moving in and spreading out in order to find and bring this girl home..They just as many of us thought with all of those things "going for us"..seemingly in our favor[or better yet in Holly's favor] it sooooo looked as though that the chances were very high that they were gonna be able to quickly find her and bring her back..

Sadly as we now know that just didn't happen.. and now in hindsight looking back at those first hours IMO LE probably realizes that its so very possible that pieces of vital importance may have been destroyed with the fiasco unleashed in those first few hours..*

LE IMO does not at this point have anything positively indicative of anything except for the fact that Holly has seemingly vanished into thin air and at this point they haven't a clue as to the who, the why, or the where to.. One of LE's most resent statements released IMO hints at their not having anything.. Agent Locke said that where as they had asked earlier for people to not call in or come in with rumors that they wanted first hand knowledge and then at the end of last week Locke states that they want anything even if is just a rumor that's been heard circulating in the community..

IMO if LE had a specific direction that their investigation had reached a point that was positively indicating a person's possible involvement..then I believe that the latest statement wouldn't have been said.. If they had part of the who, they why, or the where that was giving them insight to the perp they wouldn't want to wasting any of Holly's precious and endangered time by wanting people to report rumors that were circulating but rather only specific, certain info or details that would only further corroborate the evidence they had pointing to a certain individual...

I am still unsure of what exactly happened to Holly???..was it possibly as it seems...as it has been painted for us to see..Holly vanishing into thin air as she stepped into the tree line of her property by a camouflaged perp??..or is it possible that is could be something totally and/or completely different from that which we know so far??..Of that I still am not sure..and only time will tell..For Holly's sake I continue praying that time will come very, very soon..

Lastly there is one last thing I wanted to mention..It was a detail I learned earlier from a link posted upthread^..and until just now reading this detail I, personally had never heard peep one about it..Wondering if any other of you were already aware of this and if so where and when this detail came to you..TIA..

**Below is the actual quote and link**
Quote:
Woman working at local school with Karen said she heard Karen scream and cry uncontrollably upon hearing news that her daughter may have been abducted


http://www.examiner.com/missing-pers...ws-something-1
Is this something that is fairly well known about?..Because as I said until just now reading from the above link is the first I have heard of this..maybe I had just missed it before...

I found it to be rather informative IMO.. She's stating that when Karen first heard of the possibility of Holly's abduction[at work..the elementary school]that mom's immediate response was actually screaming and crying..Anyone else see it as odd?

Because as we've been told Karen was contacted[by Clint or by neighbor..IMO never been clarified as to which it exactly was that made that call to Karen at work]while she was at school..and we also know that she was also back home before LE made it out to the house for the initial response..

So, if it were the neighbor that made the call[as some presume] and she was telling Karen of the scream that she heard coming from near her house.. I don't see how that would lead to having the response of screaming and crying..

And if it were Clint that called mom at work this was still so very early in[possibly even before CB made 911 call he made call to mom and she instructed him to call 911 and she would be en route back home..or possibly CB had already called 911 and then mom and thats when she left school and was home before LE arrived].. Either way it so very early in when everyone trying to figure things out I just do not understand first of all who would have even categorized it as abduction right away..immediately..

IMO this detail just doesn't add up or make sense IMO.. for her to be screaming and crying at the school..Just doesn;t correlate with how very early on into the case this was.. we are talking literally within minutes..

Because Karen/Dana Bobo were said to have left the residence right at around 7am. Holly was last seen right at the time of 7:30am and then LE state they initially got to the Bobo's just shy of 8am..and LE stated that Karen Bobo was already back home at the residence when they first arrived that morning..

So given that time this just doesn't add up and make sense IMO..

And then Ms. Facetious reply about this subject as well..

Ms. Facetious post from May 15thQuote:

"Blood curdling scream" is how I had seen it worded.*

4th comment from the top and 3rd comment from the bottom.*

http://abcnews.go.com/US/comments?ty...-9B7C52EE1012}

And Smooth, I saw it within about 24-36 hours of Holly's abduction, the next day.*

Which is why I had no issue believing the initial accounts of "dragged" into the woods.*

When reporters were saying "according to the police report she was dragged into the woods" and the family reacted like they did... it made perfect sense.

But yes... we have heard before that she screamed. Definitely remember that.

I've always always found this very strange..FWIW.. It makes perfect sense when paired with the description of Holly being "dragged into the woods".. But as we all know and have been told numerous times, even by Clint himself, he never ever stated to anyone, especially LE that Holly was dragged anywhere.. Infact he says he never even said she was led into the woods by her arm either.. That what he witnessed was his sister and whom he believed to be his sister's bf, Drew walking casually towards the woods..

That does not fit with blood curdling screaming and uncontrollable crying by Karen within the very first minutes of this taking place..*

 

[cluciano63]

Well, did Holly's mom get the "dragged into the woods version" right off the bat? That would make a mother scream...

 

[SmoothOperator]

Yep clu that's exactly what I stated back in May..

SmoothOp's post from May 15thAs I touched on above this reaction correlates with the original story of her being "dragged" into the woods..so yes I, too would have a similar reaction if that was what I was told..

We now know this is not what was told.. And the truth of what was described that morning was very much benign in comparison..Not only do we have LE stating that Clint Bobo infect did not ever use the description that he saw his sister "dragged into the woods" but rather looked out and saw her walking into the woods as if being led by whom he thought was her boyfriend.. As I said extremely benign in comparison..Not only do I believe that is the more accurate story of how CB first described what he saw that morning because LE publicly stated such..but more importantly I believe it because if I am to believe that CB originally looked out a window and saw his sister walking towards the woods with whom he thought was her boyfriend and thought NOTHING OF IT AT THAT TIME..for me to believe that is true then it would have to be as we have been told[not dragged but rather walking with boyfriend..meaning he saw nothing that alarmed him or that he thought was anything out of the ordinary]..and thus we know that it was until a short time later because of other things coming to light[those I do not believe have been clarified for certain in a specific order but they were: a possible call from a neighbor or from his mom relaying the info about hearing a scream coming from direction of their home by a neighbor..him then going outside seeing his sister's car is still there, etc, etc.. which as we know is what seems to have gotten the ball rolling with getting LE involved..

So, in now knowing that Clint did not see some traumatic act such as his sister being dragged into the woods and that infact what he saw was "at that time" seemingly nothing out of the ordinary and a common every day occurrence that he went on about his business..

In knowing this there are several who feel that now putting the blood curdling, uncontrollable screaming and crying at the school does not seem to correlate.. and along with adding in that this was within moments just minutes of this all having taken place[i.e. Karen Bobo left home at 7am..Holly last seen outside at 7:30am..and Karen Bobo back home when LE arrives on scene at the home just shy of 8am..and FYI it is 26 mins to travel from school to back home for Karen Bobo]..knowing all of that we are talking within literal moments of CB having seen his sister walking towards woods with who thought was boyfriend..literally moments..and the reaction to that was blood curdling, uncontrollable screaming and crying..

 

[SmoothOperator]

Ok, in going back and reviewing details as well as refreshing my memory on what tiny bit of a time line that we have something is now standing out to me like a very sore thumb.. And I am left literally questioning if anything we know is any semblance of what occurred that morning.. I'll explain..

To refresh EVERYONE's memory of the times that we know.. Initially we were all focused on saying Holly left the door of the house right at 7:30am headed to her car.. Once the family family spoke out we were corrected that the time was 7:40am when Holly was out the door headed to her car.. I really need others opinions on what I'm outlining here and what your thoughts are because we have some definite times to work with according to what LE has told us as well..

So, if Holly's outside of her home at 7:40am.. Then we know for a fact that there is some amount of minutes that pass to the point of Clint being awakened by dog's bark.. His going to the window where he is looking outside of the house into the inside of the attached garage where he sees 2 silouhettes and hears voices.. I am not even going to attempt to put an amount of time, as in minutes, as to how long these things would have taken to occur from the time of 7:40am when Holly is leaving headed to the car(again that's the time been given us by LE and family)..

Clint calls his mom after he sees and hears these two people to find out who it is..

We know from there that he sees the two walk off towards the woods and many think likely at some point thereafter the scream was heard by neighbors.. Quite possibly due to Holly and the abductor being closer to the neighbor's property as they walk thru the woods.. Thus why they heard the screams and not Clint..

Another quick refresher that we know from having researched it and early on had some locals weigh in as well.. That the distance from the Bobo residence to Karen's elementary school is 27 minutes travel time one way..
We know from Karen and Dana Bobo that they left the home at 7:00am that morning.. Then we have Holly leaving out to head to her car at 7:40am that morning and then we have the events described by Clint that would cause some passage of time(again I am not going to even guesstimate on how much time elapsed from Holly exited the house to the point in which Clint's awoken, goes to window, and eventually sees silouhettes, as well as gets close enough to hear voices, at which time he then makes a call to mom to find out whose in the garage.. I'll let each person decide for themselves how much time they think elapsed from 7:40am for all of those events in between to the time Clint actually makes the call to mom..

Because what I do know as well is this.. LE states that they arrived on the scene at the Bobo residence a few minutes before 8am and that when they arrived that Karen Bobo was at the residence..

How can this be?? Anyone?? Because I don't care if Clint actually was placing the call to mom as Holly was walking out the door to leave at 7:40(obviously we know that didn't happen).. But even if he had made the call at 7:40 that still does not allow for Karen Bobo to be home prior to 8am when LE arrives????

The call wasn't placed at 7:40am tho.. Because Clint still had to be awakened, went to an area and viewed and heard voices coming from the garage, notices Holly's car still home, and decides to then call mom to see who was in the garage..
That without a doubt is going to make that call closer to 7:50 than 7:40 at the least.. No matter how you slice it, how you calculate it.. It still does not fit.. How could Karen have received this call she says she was in the cafeteria when it came in, has her blood curdling reaction, and travels home and arrives at home prior to LE arriving a few minutes before 8am.. I just cannot make it fit.. It makes me wonder what happened that morning.. Because these times do not fit, either..

Would love to hear others opinions.. And especially those who totally disagree and see nothing questionable with this small, tiny piece of the tiny, partial time line that we do know and has been verified for certain.. Because I just can't make it fit.. The travel time to the school is 27 mins.. The travel time home is 27 mins.. I don't care who is hauling azz, unless there is teleporting involved, or Samantha from Bewitched's magical nose, there is no way in He!! That Karen could have been back home BEFORE LE arrive a few minutes prior to 8am.. before, not as LE is arriving but BEFORE LE ARRIVES A FEW MINUTES BEFORE 8am Karen Bobo is at home at the Bobo residence on Swan Johnson Road..??

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

The things that has bothered me most in the Holly Bobo case are
#1, the family for the most part had others speak for them, and I don't think (at least in the beginning) that Clint ever spoke directly with the media
#2 I watched the mother's reaction ( getting rubber legged) in front of the camera and no matter how many times I watched it, or tried to see it as genuine, I just can't. It looked like very poor acting. I know some will think me cruel for stating that, but that's the way I see it.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Ok. Seems I'm the only one here right now.. lol.. But in doing some further thinking on this trying to make it fit.. I am going to plug in the scenario that Karen received the call from the neighbor first(meaning the scream did not take place once Holly and abductor were in the woods as many of us have theorized).. But that the scream came at some point prior.. That means that still we have Holly exiting the house at 7:40am.. Even if the scream came soon thereafter she exits the home at 7:40 we are still talking a lapse of a few more mins between the time the neighbor and/or neighbor's son hear the scream and decide to call Karen at work.. That call still at the very earliest is not going to be made before 7:45am and likely even a few minutes later..

Also, what we know per Karen is that she did not speak directly with the neighbor but rather that she was in the cafeteria when someone who'd taken the call came and found Karen in the cafeteria and relayed the msg to her that her neighbor had called the school to say she heard scream(s) coming from the direction of the Bobo's home.. Think about this.. There still in going with Karen was leaving as soon as she got the neighbor's msg it still could not be humanly possible that she left that elementary school until ATLEAST 7:50am!!

Holly exits at 7:40
Neighbor hears scream 7:40-7:45
Neighbor calls school 7:45
Msg is taken from neighbor and someone seeks out and finds Karen in cafeteria to relay the neighbor's msg 7:50

And those times are being extremely generous because it is likely that there easily could have been several more minutes in between any and all of those events occurring..

Again no matter how it is sliced it cannot have Karen Bobo at the Bobo residence prior to 8am??? And LE states that Karen was present at the Bobo residence when they arrived a few minutes before 8am.. How is this humanly possible when the travel time is 27 minutes from school to the home??? Again no matter is Mario Andretti is behind the wheel given the times we know combined with the events that we know there isn't a way that it's humanly possible that Karen Bobo was at home on Swan Johnson Road a few minutes before 8am..

Aarrgghhh!!! Banging my head hard at this point!!!!!

 

[goldiegirl]

SmoothOperator, those are some very good points about the timeline. Never thought about that before....

 

[NCSleuth]

Smoothoperator,
I have always thought the same thing, how in the world did KB get home before 8:00 am. I don't think we are getting all the details so I just assumed the times we were given were not accurate. I assumed LE had checked into such a simple detail as that and we just don't have the actual story.

Until we are given more information, this story is not going to make sense.

 

[Frogzilla]

The timeline and sequence of events has never been directly stated or clarified. I remember early on in the investigation the head of the TBI said that there would not be any release of a timeline. When the Bobo family started to speak out for themselves there was not a timeline or clear sequence of events given. It is all very jumbled to say the least. I think it is safe to assume HB left her house around 7:30AM and police were dispatched to the home no later than 8AM.
IMO this case is deliberately murky and to what end it serves has yet to be seen. In looking back to older MSM articles, the apparent disconnect between this family has LE has possibly been there since the very beginning. There are many conflicting statements that have been made over time and I know I am not the only one who sees that. I am going to throw some quotes out there that have stuck with me as a reminder to others.

“At approximately 7:30 [a.m.] this date we received a call on Swan Johnson Road of a young lady there that had been abducted supposedly,” Sheriff Wyatt said.
When asked who saw Holly being abducted Sheriff Wyatt said, “It was a neighbor that lives just up the road there from the house. She didn’t see it but heard the screams of the young lady as she was leaving the house.” -- Later MSM articles state her son heard the scream(s)
Asked how many personnel he thought they had out there that first day, Sheriff Wyatt said, “I’d be afraid to guess. I’d say probably a 100 plus law enforcement people.”
Asked how disturbing this was to his community he said, “Very, in a small rural area that we live in. We would never dream anything like this would happen. But it has and I guess that maybe big city things are coming to rural areas anymore. It’s very disturbing to our community. It’s very disturbing to us as law enforcement." --HB is not the only person to disappear in that area in recent years
On Thursday police announced they no longer believed Holly was abducted during a home invasion. John Mayer, spokesman for the TBI told ABCNews.com that “the suspect was never inside.”-- CB has stated that two people were in the garage and blood was also found there
"He actually had an arm holding her, so we feel she knew she was in fear of her life, so she was compliant with his commands," said John Mehr with the TBI. -- CB says they walked side by side and that he later learned she must of been threatened (very confusing)
Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt said Clint Bobo was the only one at home with Holly Bobo.
"This is according to her brother that he had seen her being led into the woods," said Wyatt.
Clint Bobo thought the man he saw wearing camouflage and walking toward the woods with his sister was her boyfriend. Investigators were initially not clear about how long it took her brother to realize something was wrong, but Wyatt said it did not take long.
"A very, very short time," said Wyatt.
Wyatt said Clint Bobo called his mother first. She then called 911. Soon after, people were searching the wooded area around the Bobo family's house.
Decatur County Sheriff Roy Wyatt told the newspaper the item was found after authorities received a phone call tip about it.-- Easter Sunday find
"The person responsible for Holly's disappearance lives in the area," Mark Gwyn, director of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, said. "Because of the terrain, you have to know where you're going, entrances and exits. We feel the person is in the community. We're asking the community if you know someone who has changed their routine, please let us know."
Gwyn said Bobo may have been spirited away from the immediate area but investigators believe she is still in the state. -- If they believed she was still in the state then, did they have a suspect that never left the area? Why even make this type of statement? They must of had a GOOD reason to look at somebody really hard. What happened? Very confusing.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011...nt-for-missing-Tenn-woman/UPI-72981303702724/
http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-week-review
http://www.wmctv.com/story/15037152/three-months-later-what-happened-to-holly-bobo

 

[Plumeria5]

"Neighbor lives just up the road" To me when I hear up the road I think north.
How far away is the neighbor to the north? Off to Google map.

 

[Plumeria5]

Well, I don't see any close neighbors to the north at all. It has to be the south neighbor I guess but why say "up the road?"

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Has Clint ever been interrogated with or without his parents present? Everything seems to hinge off him, and yet the parents (it would appear) have shielded him from the media.