TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Carla Lashelle]

I don't buy the accidental shooting idea for a variety of reasons:

no one hurt a shot

a fatal gunshot would bleed more than the said small amount of blood

screams - you dont generally scream when you get shot

time line - with the neighbor hearing a scream, the various documented phone calls etc. there is no way you could cover up for an unplanned accident

motive - accidents happen all the time. why cover it up and then spend 6 months wasting your own time handing out fliers?? You dont generally make an accident look like a crime. No reason to.

LE does not seem to doubt the basics of Clint's story which says he saw Holly walking away.

 

[OldSteve]

Well, tomorrow marks the 7-month anniversary.... wish LE would say something.... my gut feel is that they have a POI but that person has an alibi from family or friends.... I say that only because I've seen a number of cases on TV that go cold because of this kind of alibi, till the family member or friend giving the alibi has a falling out with the POI.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Well, tomorrow marks the 7-month anniversary.... wish LE would say something.... my gut feel is that they have a POI but that person has an alibi from family or friends.... I say that only because I've seen a number of cases on TV that go cold because of this kind of alibi, till the family member or friend giving the alibi has a falling out with the POI.

But I have seen a lot of cases where they have named names. LE will say that John Doe may have some knowledge of what happened in a particular case, etc. I think they do that to get other people to come forward. Look at the Haleigh Cummings case... I don't think Ron and Misty were ever officially named as POI's or suspects but everyone suspected them and LE certainly did. LE was always saying how they felt that the pair knew more than they were saying.

 

[Frogzilla]

But I have seen a lot of cases where they have named names. LE will say that John Doe may have some knowledge of what happened in a particular case, etc. I think they do that to get other people to come forward. Look at the Haleigh Cummings case... I don't think Ron and Misty were ever officially named as POI's or suspects but everyone suspected them and LE certainly did. LE was always saying how they felt that the pair knew more than they were saying.

I agree with you that many times LE will try to put the squeeze on somebody to get them to react. The TBI has said they believe that people are withholding information and are not sharing it, there just was no name attached to the statement. I find it hard to say if that statement was made in general, or if it was pointed at a specific person, but I would lean toward the latter. Like you said, in many cases names do surface and usually a report about lawyers being involved then appears in a timely manner. That has never happened here, but how much would you wager that people have retained lawyers in this case? If it wasn't for the Topix threads, would you know the names of anyone in this case besides the Bobo family?
I have asked myself, why the need to change the witness accounts, to act confident with seemingly nothing to base it on, to allow rumors to dominate, to never clarify/update any information, to do large scale volunteer search groups into the woods and then call them off suddenly. If we were to assume that HB and her abductor were the only two people who know what happened, why the need to obfuscate the story? Who would they be trying to fool? The first media reports on this case were not consistent with each other, let alone what we have been told over time. The first change, or spin, to CB account came 2-3 days after the abduction happened. It seems to me the decision to spin the story happened once the TBI was in control. Maybe to confuse the alibi's people tried to build? Being told a lot of second hand information can be tricky to keep straight, we all know that feeling. Or maybe it was to limit facts of the case from spreading any further than they already had, allowing a cover story of sorts for people to discuss/leak.
One of the main reasons I believe this case is so hush-hush is that the crime happened in a small, seemingly close knit community and the TBI has said numerous times that they believe the abductor is a local within the community. IMO there are many reasons to believe this person is a local and the TBI constantly saying the same makes it hard to look past that. But that is a double edged sword, because in pointing the finger at the local area collectively, it puts everyone on high alert and gives cause to cast suspicion on anybody for anything. To me, that is the breeding ground for many of the rumors that have popped up. The other side of the sword would be to name a POI in this case without arresting them. I do believe the POI after they have been named would be in need of protection, with circumstantial evidence or not. IMO it probably is not a stretch to assume a small rural community like this would not hesitate to enforce their own brand of justice.
This case makes me feel very uneasy, and is ironically one the reasons I follow it, but I feel that any possible subterfuge from LE should be more of a practical application than a primary way of communicating with the public. The truth is the truth, regardless of how simple or complicated that truth is presented.
If we recall, it did not take most, if not all, concerned local posters very long to leave internet forums, a distancing of themselves from this investigation, but firmly keeping the desire for this tragedy to have some resolution. I very much feel like the Bobo's, and also the community at large, have been boxed in by LE in this case with NOTHING to show for it 7 months later. But I do not think that means that LE is incompetent or incapable of solving this crime, it just means that they have seemingly played their cards in such a way that it is hard to tell if they are playing go fish or 52 card pickup.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I suppose im more cynical than Frog and think LE doesn't have a clue as to what happened. They blew it the first day...

 

[Wonless]

I suppose im more cynical than Frog and think LE doesn't have a clue as to what happened. They blew it the first day...

I agree, this guy got away. I think the only chance that this case gets solved is that the guilty party gets caught for something else and either confesses or is somehow linked to other crimes in the area. Or Holly is found, and that leads the investigation in a new area...but in that terrian, it would be way to easy to never be found.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

FrogZ,

I have always thought that the "witness" accounts have Morphed perhaps in compliance with LE, but was not sure of their reasoning. I found your comment interesting and quit possible if I am to understand it correctly.

Are you saying you feel the TBI has purposely presented varying accounts of that day as a means of "tripping" up the perp in his alibi....as in the truth is always the truth in it's retelling. With so many differing accounts, the guilty party will eventually make a mistake with his alibi?

I would like to believe this rather than take the position I have at this point, which is pretty much in line with Carla.

 

[cluciano63]

If the abductor is a local and no male has been reported to be missing since April 13th, then I do not see a way that Holly could be alive/being held somewhere. LE saying this is a local makes it more likely, IMO, that she is not alive. Surely a missing man would have been noticed by now, even if he did happen to be a loner-type. FWIW, I don't really believe in the "mountain man" scenario some have presented, where a caveman living outside of society decided to come to town for a "wife." So most likely, the abductor does have at least a small number of people who would take note of his absence and perhaps link it back to the timeframe. JMO

But I personally do not believe this had to be a local. Whoever he was, he got a lot of lucky breaks that morning, but that could have happened to anyone, and as several have mentioned, a local should have been better prepared to possibly encounter a Clint with a gun. How could he have known that even with Clint and armed, he would still end up not being a threat?

 

[Frogzilla]

FrogZ,

I have always thought that the "witness" accounts have Morphed perhaps in compliance with LE, but was not sure of their reasoning. I found your comment interesting and quit possible if I am to understand it correctly.

Are you saying you feel the TBI has purposely presented varying accounts of that day as a means of "tripping" up the perp in his alibi....as in the truth is always the truth in it's retelling. With so many differing accounts, the guilty party will eventually make a mistake with his alibi?

I would like to believe this rather than take the position I have at this point, which is pretty much in line with Carla.

First of all I want to say I do not believe I am being very optimistic at all, this case has it's obvious share of pitfalls. What I see happening with this case is LE assuming the worst and acting accordingly. Do we really think all those volunteer searchers were sent out into the woods to find HB and a dangerous abductor sitting there waiting for them? Why did LE make the statement to look for people washing/cleaning their cars or ATVs?
If there were no tire tracks on the ground(ATV and car wheel bases are easy to distinguish), what kind of surface would allow that? If there were no shoe impressions leading up an into the woods, they probably did not enter the woods. The word the TBI once used was that it is as if she was "spirited" out of the area.
Why did LE make the statement that on Easter searches would expand out more if nothing had turned up. The Easter comes, there is some type of find, then all volunteer searches were stopped. Some of the next statements from the TBI were that have no reason to believe HB has left West TN, people have information they are not sharing and they are just one clue away.
In regards to tripping up a perps alibi, I cannot say that I feel that IS the case here, but I presented it as something to consider. I find it too convenient to pin all the changing stories on CB, partially because we have heard nuanced versions from him, but mostly because the TBI has also nuanced their information as well. The question I posed before, which I do not have an answer for, is- If only HB and abductor knew what happened, why would there be any need to change elements of a story? I can buy the idea of possibly changing dragged to forcibly led to protect CB from being further scrutinized for not immediately pursuing, but the third nuance is an oddball. Of all the things to clarify, why is that sighting CB had of them walking away being continually obscured? In the latest telling, the camo man may have been wearing a hat and gloves. I am not sure that information is very helpful, but okay.....
I really do not think the abductor's own alibi of that morning would be effected by a story change through the media, because their story is their story, they would not elaborate any more than they had to, especially to LE. If somebody already had or was later given direct knowledge of the abductor's plans/deeds, would that not make them an accomplice? Do we really think this abductor confessed their crime to somebody else, their mother, their pastor? I do not believe so. If more than one person is involved, I tend to believe they were in on it together or had a mutual understanding, partners in crime so to say. But keep in mind, a person cannot alibi themselves, if they cannot account for X amount of time, then there is no alibi so to speak. If the abductors alibi is somebody who has no knowledge of the crime, then it is possible that the story they know from the media may contradict what they may be told or overhear from this person. This could fall into the category of parents, friends or a spouse who may develop a suspicion, but choose to overlook or stay in denial of the possibility.
I do believe that misinformation can be a way to weed out who is trying to gain and or control info. Also, this can be a way for LE to distinguish what they think they know, versus what may be actual truth. IMO this is where all the rumors could potentially cripple this case. If LE isn't extremely confident in what they believe/evidence, how will they distinguish rumor from truth.
As an example, how does the nuance of HB being dragged, to forcibly led with an arm around her, to walking casually side by side have any bearing on the case as it has developed?
Think about this tactic in the long term, if this case goes into a prosecutorial phase, do we think the defense is going to attack the changing stories and accounts? The first problem I see, is that the one witness to this kidnapping has stated that HB casually walked away. If she walked away under no obvious duress, then how do you prove it was a kidnapping? There was blood found in the garage/carport, okay, but how do you prove that this blood was caused in the act of a kidnapping? In one telling of the story, CB said he saw silhouettes in the garage kneeling and heard voices, he also stated that camo man was the silhouette in the garage. Regardless of all the nuances and versions of the story, this aspect was only broached once and was not very clear, but it does place camo man in the garage with another person where blood was found that belongs to HB.
I see these types of nuances as possibly being the ties that bind parts of the whole story together, which i do not believe we even know a fraction of. I get the impression that if/when this case is solved, some people are going to be completely blindsided.
In conclusion, what I am eluding to is that I don't see much of a case here without finding HB. If they locate or can prove HB was murdered, then tying a kidnapping case into a possible murder becomes much easier. As in, Camo man was spotted where HB blood was found, camo man was spotted leaving the premises with HB, in knowing what eventually happened to HB, the main question becomes proving who camo man was, not as much as the specifics of what he may have done after the abduction. LE could be holding onto forsensic evidence for all we know, but with no provable conclusion to draw from it. Hope I am not making this too confusing!
This is a wiki link to add some backdrop to what I am saying-
Corpus delecti (body of crime)
Corpus delicti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TxLady2]

If the abductor is a local and no male has been reported to be missing since April 13th, then I do not see a way that Holly could be alive/being held somewhere. LE saying this is a local makes it more likely, IMO, that she is not alive. Surely a missing man would have been noticed by now, even if he did happen to be a loner-type. FWIW, I don't really believe in the "mountain man" scenario some have presented, where a caveman living outside of society decided to come to town for a "wife." So most likely, the abductor does have at least a small number of people who would take note of his absence and perhaps link it back to the timeframe. JMO

But I personally do not believe this had to be a local. Whoever he was, he got a lot of lucky breaks that morning, but that could have happened to anyone, and as several have mentioned, a local should have been better prepared to possibly encounter a Clint with a gun. How could he have known that even with Clint and armed, he would still end up not being a threat?

Women have been kidnapped and taken to some unknown location and locked up in a basement while the perp went about their daily business, and no one suspected a thing. It's rare, but it has happened. Not saying that's the case here, but we can't assume that whoever took her would have to be "missing" too.
I don't know whether LE in this case knows anything, has any suspects or is completely in the dark. But it's not often that they actually name someone as a suspect publicly unless they have some pretty strong evidence against them. Many LE often don't name a suspect until they have them in custody.
Some of the changing stories or discrepancies in this case may be due to bad reporting, either by the media or LE themselves, or just maybe once the initial shock was past, their heads are clearer and their memory of the events improved, IDK.
Sometimes these cases take years to solve. I just feel bad for Holly's family and friends, it must be horrific for them.

 

[OldSteve]

Women have been kidnapped and taken to some unknown location and locked up in a basement while the perp went about their daily business, and no one suspected a thing. It's rare, but it has happened. Not saying that's the case here, but we can't assume that whoever took her would have to be "missing" too.
I don't know whether LE in this case knows anything, has any suspects or is completely in the dark. But it's not often that they actually name someone as a suspect publicly unless they have some pretty strong evidence against them. Many LE often don't name a suspect until they have them in custody.
Some of the changing stories or discrepancies in this case may be due to bad reporting, either by the media or LE themselves, or just maybe once the initial shock was past, their heads are clearer and their memory of the events improved, IDK.
Sometimes these cases take years to solve. I just feel bad for Holly's family and friends, it must be horrific for them.

Well said on this 7th-month sad anniversary. Here in the northeast, the leaves are off the trees. Wonder how it is in TN, and will there be any searches (by air or foot) once they are. Visibility should be much better to see if anything is stuck on branches etc... though fallen leaves would have covered anything left on the ground.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I agree w/ Frog in that: no Holly - no case.

In this case no POI has been named w/ no motive tied in.

In the case against Scott Peterson if Lacy and Connor had never been found, the prosecution would still have had the testimomy of Amber Frey to point to a motive against SP, and I believe a guilty verdict would have been produced, however, definitely not the death penalty (maybe manslaughter).

In the case against Casey Anthony if Caylee had never been found, there probably would not have been a trial.

LE nor the Bobo family have come forward with info that would suggest someone in particular has knowledge of Holly's disappearance, or even a motive. I hate to say it, but this does not bode well for the discovery of Holly. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I just realized that the two example cases I refer to in my previous post the perpetrator or accused perpetrator are family members of the victim. Please note I did not try to purposefully insinuate anything in this case. Subconsciously - another story, probably because it seems as though this case is staring at a brick wall. :banghead:

jmo

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Good buddies! If you were planning to kidnap someone, would you really try to convince them to sit behind you on a 4-wheeler while you drive them to their doom? They could just roll off the 4-wheeler and run in the woods. They could simply fall off when you hit a bump. If Holly was kidnapped alive (this is only a supposition and not necessarily my theory), she would have been in the trunk of a car and less likely, in the cab of a truck with a weapon against her side. But if she was not alive, she would be in the trunk of a car. Think about this.

But respecting some of the other fine sleuthers, I maintain a 5% chance that Holly is alive. This requires some fantastic circumstances, but this is far from a typical case.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Good buddies! If you were planning to kidnap someone, would you really try to convince them to sit behind you on a 4-wheeler while you drive them to their doom? They could just roll off the 4-wheeler and run in the woods. They could simply fall off when you hit a bump. If Holly was kidnapped alive (this is only a supposition and not necessarily my theory), she would have been in the trunk of a car and less likely, in the cab of a truck with a weapon against her side. But if she was not alive, she would be in the trunk of a car. Think about this.

But respecting some of the other fine sleuthers, I maintain a 5% chance that Holly is alive. This requires some fantastic circumstances, but this is far from a typical case.

Mr. N,

Is this comment in response to a particular post, or just thinking out loud? LOL!
Kinda came out of the blue.

 

[Carla Lashelle]

I think really now we are at an impasse here...

Weather the family and /or law enforcment know any more details or not than what have beep put forward (in a very convoluted way) nothing much can happen without this happening:

1) break in the case like they find Holly somewhere and can then work backwards towards the beginning

2) Law enforcement or the family suddenly put out a whole lot more information/details

3) third party who is as of yet unknown comes forward with new/different/detailed information, like an unknown witness, friend of a friend who knew the suspect, etc.

4) someone happens to confess


without SOMETHING new happening I can not see any resolution here. I think for us, most people have done about all we can do with the limited info we have at hand.

 

[Frogzilla]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Good buddies! If you were planning to kidnap someone, would you really try to convince them to sit behind you on a 4-wheeler while you drive them to their doom? They could just roll off the 4-wheeler and run in the woods. They could simply fall off when you hit a bump. If Holly was kidnapped alive (this is only a supposition and not necessarily my theory), she would have been in the trunk of a car and less likely, in the cab of a truck with a weapon against her side. But if she was not alive, she would be in the trunk of a car. Think about this.

But respecting some of the other fine sleuthers, I maintain a 5% chance that Holly is alive. This requires some fantastic circumstances, but this is far from a typical case.

First I have to ask this- Is it possible this abduction was done only using an atv as a mode of transportation? Not is it likely, is it possible? I say this because I know in rural areas where everybody has an atv, those people can move around the woods faster than you could drive around the area in a car or truck, especially if they are going to a specific destination. They can also weave around the trails and paved roads, as a way to fool anybody trying to follow their tracks. Also, there is so much water around that area, is it possible to use an atv and use the water to mask your tracks?
I sort of agree with what you are getting at. It does not seem very efficient to kidnap somebody using a 4-wheeler, or any atv for that matter, but I tend to think more about why did the TBI even mention ATV's? My best assumption is that whatever trail they followed, there must have been multiple tire tracks, car and atv, and they could not distinguish all of them, which we can only hope LE has compared any tracks to people's vehicles who frequent the area,. Also, I would not box myself into thinking there is only one type of ATV. There are ATV that could carry several unwilling passengers. But let's assume we are talking a typical four wheel atv. If the abductor is 6' 200lb and HB is 5'3 110lb, then hypothetically he could carry her while driving the atv. He could also tie them together, or tie her to a rack, so even if she tried to jump out, his own strength would prevent her from getting any separation. Also, and this cannot be overstated, this type of community has a hunters mentality. I would assume almost every young man growing up there is familiar with hunting, handling weapons, handling carcasses, driving ATV's, familiarity to the area, especially the backwoods. In other words, many of the men in that community have the means to pull off this abduction, it would not take somebody with any special training or skill sets to abduct and then disappear using the woods as cover. If the TBI felt any atv tracks they found were fresh or somehow related to the abduction, that would immediately make one think it is probably a local abductor. I am not saying that is the case, just throwing out possibilities.
In regards to what happened once HB and abductor may have reached a car/truck, all bets are off.

 

[OldSteve]

I think really now we are at an impasse here...

Weather the family and /or law enforcment know any more details or not than what have beep put forward (in a very convoluted way) nothing much can happen without this happening:

1) break in the case like they find Holly somewhere and can then work backwards towards the beginning

2) Law enforcement or the family suddenly put out a whole lot more information/details

3) third party who is as of yet unknown comes forward with new/different/detailed information, like an unknown witness, friend of a friend who knew the suspect, etc.

4) someone happens to confess


without SOMETHING new happening I can not see any resolution here. I think for us, most people have done about all we can do with the limited info we have at hand.

Sadly you are right - we are at an impasse. Essentially, all we really know that is confirmed by more than one person is that Holly left for school April 13, there were phone calls between mother and son about Holly and someone outside, neighbor called mother about scream, mother was extremely upset, and that Holly hasn't been seen or heard from since.

I would expand on your #3, - perhaps someone in prison comes forward with something they heard, motivated by hope of getting favorable treatment.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Sadly you are right - we are at an impasse. Essentially, all we really know that is confirmed by more than one person is that Holly left for school April 13, there were phone calls between mother and son about Holly and someone outside, neighbor called mother about scream, mother was extremely upset, and that Holly hasn't been seen or heard from since.

I would expand on your #3, - perhaps someone in prison comes forward with something they heard, motivated by hope of getting favorable treatment.

Sadly, OldSteve, The only thing I know for sure is that Holly is missing, and I wish we could throw out everything we have heard or read and just start over. The way this entire case has played out leaves so many unanswered questions, I don't think we can even be sure how she disappeared.

"The Whole Story", as Karen Bobo mentioned, has not been told. :sigh:

 

[Wonless]

First I have to ask this- Is it possible this abduction was done only using an atv as a mode of transportation? Not is it likely, is it possible? I say this because I know in rural areas where everybody has an atv, those people can move around the woods faster than you could drive around the area in a car or truck, especially if they are going to a specific destination. They can also weave around the trails and paved roads, as a way to fool anybody trying to follow their tracks. Also, there is so much water around that area, is it possible to use an atv and use the water to mask your tracks?
I sort of agree with what you are getting at. It does not seem very efficient to kidnap somebody using a 4-wheeler, or any atv for that matter, but I tend to think more about why did the TBI even mention ATV's? My best assumption is that whatever trail they followed, there must have been multiple tire tracks, car and atv, and they could not distinguish all of them, which we can only hope LE has compared any tracks to people's vehicles who frequent the area,. Also, I would not box myself into thinking there is only one type of ATV. There are ATV that could carry several unwilling passengers. But let's assume we are talking a typical four wheel atv. If the abductor is 6' 200lb and HB is 5'3 110lb, then hypothetically he could carry her while driving the atv. He could also tie them together, or tie her to a rack, so even if she tried to jump out, his own strength would prevent her from getting any separation. Also, and this cannot be overstated, this type of community has a hunters mentality. I would assume almost every young man growing up there is familiar with hunting, handling weapons, handling carcasses, driving ATV's, familiarity to the area, especially the backwoods. In other words, many of the men in that community have the means to pull off this abduction, it would not take somebody with any special training or skill sets to abduct and then disappear using the woods as cover. If the TBI felt any atv tracks they found were fresh or somehow related to the abduction, that would immediately make one think it is probably a local abductor. I am not saying that is the case, just throwing out possibilities.
In regards to what happened once HB and abductor may have reached a car/truck, all bets are off.

The only way I could see this is if She was hand cuffed to the metal luggage rack...that would work...but it seems to me an atv would leave more of a trail and be easier to follow..but that may be worng if there where alot of atv tracks..