TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[~n/t~]

They frequently murder them. And one might be surprised (and horrified) as to how many home invasions then turn into multiple crimes of opportunity, such as physical and sexual assaults, torture, arson, etc.

Oh I know. Following the Petit family case for a while had me horrified. I couldn't handle the details of the torture they suffered in the hands of these monsters.

But my point is, in home invasions, victims are usually brutally assaulted in the home and not kidnapped as is the case with Holly so perhaps that is the reason LE changed it from Home Invasion to Kidnapping?

 

[~n/t~]

I think she meant something more along the lines of 'We still hope and pray that we will wake up from this nightmare and it will all have been a dream' kind of misunderstanding.

My interpretation only, of course.

Yes nightmare or dream would've been more appropriate. Perhaps I'm reading too much into what she's saying but taking her words and everything else about this case leaves me with more questions than answers.

I think there is a good possibility that they know (or suspect) who the perp is and they know why she was taken.

This is not a stranger abduction, imo

 

[Oriah]

Oh I know. Following the Petit family case for a while had me horrified. I couldn't handle the details of the torture they suffered in the hands of these monsters.

But my point is, in home invasions, victims are usually brutally assaulted in the home and not kidnapped as is the case with Holly so perhaps that is the reason LE changed it from Home Invasion to Kidnapping?

The Petit murders, truly a horrible case. And actually very close to my heart.

I can totally understand not following the torture aspect(s.)

Regarding home invasion definitions vs kidnapping etc- and this is my very humble opinion only- but for example, technically Ms. Petit was kidnapped (for the sake of simplicity let's use the trip to the bank) during the commission of the home invasion. It's just that by the time LE was able to clarify the situation, Ms. Petit was already murdered and had been recovered. So no need to change the definition publically. But it was in fact both.

In Holly's case, I believe it was changed because Holly has not been found- but we do know she was kidnapped. If she is found and can either relay what happened that morning- or god forbid found murdered and obviously unable to relay information- I would not be the least surprised if LE changed this case back to a home invasion.

 

[Frogzilla]

The Petit murders, truly a horrible case. And actually very close to my heart.

I can totally understand not following the torture aspect(s.)

Regarding home invasion definitions vs kidnapping etc- and this is my very humble opinion only- but for example, technically Ms. Petit was kidnapped (for the sake of simplicity let's use the trip to the bank) during the commission of the home invasion. It's just that by the time LE was able to clarify the situation, Ms. Petit was already murdered and had been recovered. So no need to change the definition publically. But it was in fact both.

In Holly's case, I believe it was changed because Holly has not been found- but we do know she was kidnapped. If she is found and can either relay what happened that morning- or god forbid found murdered and obviously unable to relay information- I would not be the least surprised if LE changed this case back to a home invasion.

Without trying to be to technical with definitions, the state of TN does not legally define a home invasion as a crime. Many times the term home invasion is used as a way to summarize what happened or to grab attention, without having to give great detail. IMO home invasion is only referenced to HB case because she was abducted from her home, the only true aspect of a home invasion I can see is the sequence CB tells about silhouettes being in the garage. To me it makes sense the original headline was a home invasion that was changed into a kidnapping for clarity, it shows the nature of the crime as well as eliciting a response from people when they hear about it.
I would agree though that if this crime happened in say, Michigan, home invasion statutes would factor into this case, but mostly because any crime that happens at a residence can be rolled into a home invasion statute. Also worth noting, the state of Michigan actually defines home invasion in the first, second and third degrees.

 

[Oriah]

Without trying to be to technical with definitions, the state of TN does not legally define a home invasion as a crime. Many times the term home invasion is used as a way to summarize what happened or to grab attention, without having to give great detail. IMO home invasion is only referenced to HB case because she was abducted from her home, the only true aspect of a home invasion I can see is the sequence CB tells about silhouettes being in the garage. To me it makes sense the original headline was a home invasion that was changed into a kidnapping for clarity, it shows the nature of the crime as well as eliciting a response from people when they hear about it.
I would agree though that if this crime happened in say, Michigan, home invasion statutes would factor into this case, but mostly because any crime that happens at a residence can be rolled into a home invasion statute. Also worth noting, the state of Michigan actually defines home invasion in the first, second and third degrees.

I did not know this, frog. (I'm not an attorney, or from TN.) But it is interesting to me that TN appears (going by other cases in the media) to charge concurrent crimes that result from home invasions- while still calling them home invasions. Such as kidnapping, burglary, rape etc. All seem to involve concurrent violent crimes.

Is this accurate, do you know? It's referred to in many cases as such. TIA.

 

[~n/t~]

Frog, I'm not sure I understand your post.

I did google home invasions in TN and there are a few cases. Here are just a couple but there are more. There's even a youtube video from a company in TN selling a door brace.

Ripley, Tennessee Home Invasion Prevention. Install The ONGARD Door Brace Today - YouTube


http://www.wcyb.com/news/27096404/detail.html

http://www.wkrn.com/story/15789873/man-shot-in-home-invasion-dies-from-injuries

 

[Frogzilla]

I did not know this, frog. (I'm not an attorney, or from TN.) But it is interesting to me that TN appears (going by other cases in the media) to charge concurrent crimes that result from home invasions- while still calling them home invasions. Such as kidnapping, burglary, rape etc. All seem to involve concurrent violent crimes.

Is this accurate, do you know? It's referred to in many cases as such. TIA.

I am not a lawyer or from TN either, but I do think the question you posed is difficult to answer. As an example, MI and IL have several classifications of home invasions, all deal with whether or not a weapon was used (also how it was used) in the commission of any subsequent crime. In MI the maximum sentence is 20 years, in IL it is 60 years. Several other states such as FL and WA do not have as many definitions for home invasion, but they have discretion to apply their statutes and can also seek life imprisonment.
I believe there are around 15-20 states with home invasion laws and there is variation to the way each state applies their laws. In regards to a state like TN, with no home invasion laws, my best guess would be that the term home invasion is used at their discretion. TN laws make it more than likely that burglary statutes are applied when a crime involves a home invasion, in addition to any statues that may apply to any other crimes subsequently committed. This may be the part of the answer you were seeking.
I tried to elude to this in my previous posts, but the term home invasion does have the ability to paint a picture, or to summarize where a crime may have occurred. As an example, if John Doe is mugged on a city street, we would call that a robbery, but if John Doe was robbed in his home, we would call that a home invasion.

 

[Plumeria5]

More bizarre statements:





http://www.wreg.com/wreg-country-si...issing-cousin-20111115,0,5155339.story?page=2


ok I'm with those who think the family knows more than they're letting on. At first I thought they were clueless but now I'm convinced they know who took her and why. I also believe the person is not a threat to Holly. I sense a lack of urgency in trying to find her. Hope and prayers won't get her back.

Just when I thought this case couldn't get any more mysterious....

"Yeah, she's a country girl. She's tough.I said the biggest million dollar prize would to be home watching it with her," said Duncan. (from the same article above)

And I wouldn't think a tough, country girl is going to walk away with an abductor without fighting, screaming, and raising "you know what".

 

[Carla Lashelle]

Maybe it was a home invasion by someone they knew.

I know a lot of people think perhaps the family knows who did this... but I don't think they do, or at least not specifically. If they did know, or have some idea who was involved, then why go to the trouble to search every day, quit your job or school to search, pass fliers out in neighboring counties, do truck decals, do interviews on local and national tv and news etc for 7 months?

Perhaps there was some sort of anonymous threat but I dont know there... No mention of any prior threat or danger has ever been made and its not like keeping that secret would help anyone.

 

[~n/t~]

The article in the Jackson Sun entitled "Final hours with Holly: Family, friends, police reconstruct time" has been removed.

I get: Unfortunately, that page could not be found.

The other one entitled "Holly Bobo's family questions early handling of investigation" is still available.

hmmmmmmm

 

[Carla Lashelle]

The article in the Jackson Sun entitled "Final hours with Holly: Family, friends, police reconstruct time" has been removed.

I get: Unfortunately, that page could not be found.

The other one entitled "Holly Bobo's family questions early handling of investigation" is still available.

hmmmmmmm

hard to say a lot of news articles tend to vanish off the internet. Half of the links posted here over the last 7 months probably are dead now. Stories get dropped, updated (so the old version is gone) etc. Might be able to find it on an archive site though.

 

[Oriah]

I missed this post earlier, frog. I mostly agree- based loosely on the jumble of info we have gotten. However, several other thoughts have crossed my mind.

The bolded by me: I know there is flexibility given state to state when it comes to home invasion definitions, however regarding clarification of initial reports of home invasion vs the current 'Kidnapping' as per the FBI...
One is that early reports were that Clint heard voices (plural) and saw the sillouttes (also plural.) He saw Holly going toward the woods with what he believed to be a man. Is it possible that there were two assailants, and one left toward Swan Johnson while the other took Holly toward the woods? If Clint was in the carport/garage or out back and had been in the interior of the residence prior to that, he could well have missing seeing someone exit down the driveway toward Swan Johnson. Easily putting two persons in the carport with Holly, but only one taking her toward the woods.

Also- early reports of Holly kneeling. It seems very possible that there may have been a sexual assault in process or recently committed. Could something like this have been committed on the Bobo property, inside a structure, by possibly two persons, with the use of a weapon?

Confidentiality laws in place (hopefully) protect a victim of sexual assault... but would not prevent the kidnapping designation made public. Confidentiality laws regarding sexual assault victims are due, in part, to stigma sometimes associated with the victim.
Could this have been such an appalling, witnessed crime, perceived as stigmatizing to the Bobo's- that they requested confidentiality pertaining to certain aspects of the crime? But because Holly was also abducted and has not been found- they wanted info to be released as 'Kidnapped"?

Just some thoughts I've had.

 

[~n/t~]

hard to say a lot of news articles tend to vanish off the internet. Half of the links posted here over the last 7 months probably are dead now. Stories get dropped, updated (so the old version is gone) etc. Might be able to find it on an archive site though.

I haven't experienced that yet with any of the links pertaining to this case except this one. Strange that they were both released at the same time but now one is gone but the other remains. These were 2 of the latest articles released in October.

All the older Jackson Sun articles are still available and so are the videos dating back to April!!


I'm getting an icky feeling. I experienced this with the McCann case.

 

[OldSteve]

"Yeah, she's a country girl. She's tough.I said the biggest million dollar prize would to be home watching it with her," said Duncan. (from the same article above)

And I wouldn't think a tough, country girl is going to walk away with an abductor without fighting, screaming, and raising "you know what".

Thanks for this! First, I like it because is shows Duncan in a good way. I would cut her lots of slack in anything she says that could be interpreted as not caring since it not easy to speak impromptu about such things.

Second, we have so little background about Holly, that info like paints a different picture than I had of her...

 

[Frogzilla]

I missed this post earlier, frog. I mostly agree- based loosely on the jumble of info we have gotten. However, several other thoughts have crossed my mind.

The bolded by me: I know there is flexibility given state to state when it comes to home invasion definitions, however regarding clarification of initial reports of home invasion vs the current 'Kidnapping' as per the FBI...
One is that early reports were that Clint heard voices (plural) and saw the sillouttes (also plural.) He saw Holly going toward the woods with what he believed to be a man. Is it possible that there were two assailants, and one left toward Swan Johnson while the other took Holly toward the woods? If Clint was in the carport/garage or out back and had been in the interior of the residence prior to that, he could well have missing seeing someone exit down the driveway toward Swan Johnson. Easily putting two persons in the carport with Holly, but only one taking her toward the woods.

Also- early reports of Holly kneeling. It seems very possible that there may have been a sexual assault in process or recently committed. Could something like this have been committed on the Bobo property, inside a structure, by possibly two persons, with the use of a weapon?

Confidentiality laws in place (hopefully) protect a victim of sexual assault... but would not prevent the kidnapping designation made public. Confidentiality laws regarding sexual assault victims are due, in part, to stigma sometimes associated with the victim.
Could this have been such an appalling, witnessed crime, perceived as stigmatizing to the Bobo's- that they requested confidentiality pertaining to certain aspects of the crime? But because Holly was also abducted and has not been found- they wanted info to be released as 'Kidnapped"?

Just some thoughts I've had.

I think in regards to the FBI classification of this crime being a kidnapping is the most accurate because the focus is on a possibly kidnapped woman. Also, there are no federal home invasion laws, it is completely up to the individual state. From everything I can find about TN, burglary statutes apply in cases of a "home invasion". The bottom line is that this case can be summarized as a home invasion that turned into an abduction or a home invasion with the intent to abduct an occupant, either way it is HB that is missing because somebody kidnapped her.
I went back to the JVM interview and wanted to post some snippets to keep our memories in order, IMO some of the ideas you bring up are touched upon in that interview.
C. BOBO: I saw the silhouette of two people in our garage. At the time I had no idea who either one of the people were. And then come to realize later that that was my sister and her abductor.
C. BOBO: No, I saw them from inside the house and they were outside the house in the garage.
C. BOBO: And then I got in touch with my mom and found out that Holly was supposed to be in school that morning and realized that that must have been her at the house and then I looked back out and saw Holly and a male walking towards the woods and that`s the last time I saw her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying you were able to call your mom before they left the garage and after you called your mom you see them walking towards the woods?
C. BOBO: Right. And I told my mom that once I realized it was Holly, I said well, Holly and Drew which is her boyfriend were out in the garage talking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So where did you find the blood?
C. BOBO: It was in the garage, under where I saw the silhouette of them kneeled down in the garage.
C. BOBO: No, I assumed -- I was inside the house and I assumed that that was Holly and her boyfriend Drew and he was dressed in full camouflage so I thought that Drew had been to the woods and killed a turkey and brought it back to the house and the two were sitting there over the turkey talking. After I saw the blood, I thought that was blood of a turkey that Drew had killed.
C. BOBO: I spoke with mom -- I spoke with mom initially to find out who the people -- I heard two voices outside our house and I called mom to try to find out who these people were outside our house. But I had no idea who they were.

To quickly summarize, CB wakes up and from inside the house, he looks outside into/toward the garage and sees two silhouettes (he later realizes this was HB and camo man). He hears two voices and cannot identify them (odd considering at this point in his narrative, he has yet to call his mother to find out who the people are, but later indentifies one of the voices as possibly being HB because she was in the garage with camo man). He sees the silhouette of them kneeled down in the garage ( I have asked myself how is it possible to tell TWO silhouettes are kneeling down unless there is a distance between them or they are doing something that cannot be mistaken for anything else and I am not sure looking over a turkey would be descriptive enough). He talks to his mother(at work) and tells her that HB is out in the garage talking with DS. After talking with his mother, he sees HB and camo man walk away towards the woods together. He goes into the garage and sees blood under where the silhouettes had been kneeling.
I know lately, probably more than ever, we have been tossing around the idea that CB's actions were more like a frightened person than an ignorant person. I think everything you wrote is plausible and as I was writing this post, many things do allow one to look this case as possibly being 2 abductors and a sexual assault.
I tend to stay away from focusing on more than one abductor because from all appearances, only one person was needed to remove HB from her property and there is no available info to work with on that. The only shred of a trail for that idea is maybe the turkey CB thought the silhouettes were looking at was HB, but if CB could see them in the garage and then see them walk away, wouldn't he notice another "camo man" as well?
The sexual assault aspect is an idea that does not get tossed around very often, mostly because of the lack of clear info, but it would fit in line with the 10 minutes or so that HB and abductor spent according to the most recent article and also with finding a non life threatening amount of blood under where CB saw them (silhouettes) kneeling in the garage.
Lastly, the privacy issue is certainly another possibility as to why this story is so mangled. If the family did not want to give these types of details and LE did not want to share any details with them or the public, that would certainly muddy up the waters.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/04/ijvm.01.html

 

[cocomod]

I think in regards to the FBI classification of this crime being a kidnapping is the most accurate because the focus is on a possibly kidnapped woman. Also, there are no federal home invasion laws, it is completely up to the individual state. From everything I can find about TN, burglary statutes apply in cases of a "home invasion". The bottom line is that this case can be summarized as a home invasion that turned into an abduction or a home invasion with the intent to abduct an occupant, either way it is HB that is missing because somebody kidnapped her.
I went back to the JVM interview and wanted to post some snippets to keep our memories in order, IMO some of the ideas you bring up are touched upon in that interview.
C. BOBO: I saw the silhouette of two people in our garage. At the time I had no idea who either one of the people were. And then come to realize later that that was my sister and her abductor.
C. BOBO: No, I saw them from inside the house and they were outside the house in the garage.
C. BOBO: And then I got in touch with my mom and found out that Holly was supposed to be in school that morning and realized that that must have been her at the house and then I looked back out and saw Holly and a male walking towards the woods and that`s the last time I saw her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying you were able to call your mom before they left the garage and after you called your mom you see them walking towards the woods?
C. BOBO: Right. And I told my mom that once I realized it was Holly, I said well, Holly and Drew which is her boyfriend were out in the garage talking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So where did you find the blood?
C. BOBO: It was in the garage, under where I saw the silhouette of them kneeled down in the garage.
C. BOBO: No, I assumed -- I was inside the house and I assumed that that was Holly and her boyfriend Drew and he was dressed in full camouflage so I thought that Drew had been to the woods and killed a turkey and brought it back to the house and the two were sitting there over the turkey talking. After I saw the blood, I thought that was blood of a turkey that Drew had killed.
C. BOBO: I spoke with mom -- I spoke with mom initially to find out who the people -- I heard two voices outside our house and I called mom to try to find out who these people were outside our house. But I had no idea who they were.

To quickly summarize, CB wakes up and from inside the house, he looks outside into/toward the garage and sees two silhouettes (he later realizes this was HB and camo man). He hears two voices and cannot identify them (odd considering at this point in his narrative, he has yet to call his mother to find out who the people are, but later indentifies one of the voices as possibly being HB because she was in the garage with camo man). He sees the silhouette of them kneeled down in the garage ( I have asked myself how is it possible to tell TWO silhouettes are kneeling down unless there is a distance between them or they are doing something that cannot be mistaken for anything else and I am not sure looking over a turkey would be descriptive enough). He talks to his mother(at work) and tells her that HB is out in the garage talking with DS. After talking with his mother, he sees HB and camo man walk away towards the woods together. He goes into the garage and sees blood under where the silhouettes had been kneeling.
I know lately, probably more than ever, we have been tossing around the idea that CB's actions were more like a frightened person than an ignorant person. I think everything you wrote is plausible and as I was writing this post, many things do allow one to look this case as possibly being 2 abductors and a sexual assault.
I tend to stay away from focusing on more than one abductor because from all appearances, only one person was needed to remove HB from her property and there is no available info to work with on that. The only shred of a trail for that idea is maybe the turkey CB thought the silhouettes were looking at was HB, but if CB could see them in the garage and then see them walk away, wouldn't he notice another "camo man" as well?
The sexual assault aspect is an idea that does not get tossed around very often, mostly because of the lack of clear info, but it would fit in line with the 10 minutes or so that HB and abductor spent according to the most recent article and also with finding a non life threatening amount of blood under where CB saw them (silhouettes) kneeling in the garage.
Lastly, the privacy issue is certainly another possibility as to why this story is so mangled. If the family did not want to give these types of details and LE did not want to share any details with them or the public, that would certainly muddy up the waters.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/04/ijvm.01.html

Sorry, this post may offend some. Graphic for me to type!

Thanks Frog!! I have followed this case from day 1; and I check back often for news of Holly. I hadn't really thought about 2 abductors until today. You have helped me to expand and think "outside of the box". What if there were 2 abductors that morning? What if Clint heard 2 different voices besides Holly? Could one have been assaulting Holly and he could only see the two abductors there at that time, while Holly was laying there being assaulted? One of the abductors maybe hears Clint and runs to get the car, the other tells her that if she wants to live, she will walk quietly with him. They walk towards the woods, then they head towards the car that the other abductor has ran to get.

This scenario is not one I had ever even considered before, but... Just a theory, just a possibility?

 

[wishuwerehere]

IMO the sexual assault in the carport theory would fit in with a plausible motive. This also would be an explanation of Holly’s blood being found in the carport. However, LE has not revealed (of course) if an unidentified male’s semen (or any other type of DNA) was found in the carport.

Without the findings of semen in the carport, I don’t know how LE would know that a sexual assault had occurred, except by an eyewitness account. I can’t fathom Clint witnessing his sister being sexually assaulted and not doing anything about it. However, I can fathom Clint witnessing the aftermath of a sexual assault and being confused about what he is seeing.

jmo

 

[cluciano63]

I've never heard of an sexual assault taking place at the location (outside and daylight) and then the victim being taken and never seen again, in this way...if the intent was sexual assault, why do it right there, if he intended to take her anyway? That seems very odd...JMO

 

[wishuwerehere]

I've never heard of an sexual assault taking place at the location (outside and daylight) and then the victim being taken and never seen again, in this way...if the intent was sexual assault, why do it right there, if he intended to take her anyway? That seems very odd...JMO

Maybe the intent was not to take her away, but if the perp realized he was seen by a witness (Clint), plans changed. Everything about this case is odd.

jmo

 

[cocomod]

Again, I am just thinking outside of the box. Possibly they began a sexual assault, one of them heard Clint moving inside the house, and they took her because she could recognize them. They may have taken her to continue the assault, or simply because she could recognize them. If they used a condom, there would not be semen at the scene, but there may be blood from Holly. I am not suggesting that Clint really knew what he saw. If he only saw "shadows" kneeling in the garage, he may not have known that Holly was under the "kneeling shadow". If he thought they were looking at a turkey, it may have been the shape of Holly's head. I am NOT in any way saying that this is what happened, but just throwing out a possible scenario that I have not yet thought of before today.