TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Plumeria5]

http://www.wikihow.com/Thwart-an-Abduction-Attempt

Steps to thwart an abduction attempt.

Especially look at #6 Make a Scene
Whether it would have made a difference for Holly since she lived in the country, I don't know, but hopefully it will make a difference for someone that reads this article.

 

[Chili Fries]

Perhaps you missed these 2 links. The first is directly from the TBI director

Nobody ruled out in Holly Bobo investigation - YouTube

and this one a quote from Special Agent John Mehr:



http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314

Thanks for posting that, ~n/t~. I have tended to err on the side of caution when any hint of suspicion toward the family has come up but now I don't know. It's tough to know whether to read anything into this or take it just as routine LE-speak. It does seem to me that the family has felt the heat of suspicion from the public in the past and likely has asked LE to publicly make a statement clearing Clint, and Special Agent Mehr's statement is at odds with that. We do know that the FBI bulletin considers her to have been kidnapped though.

 

[shefner]

There are so many questions in this case...problems that investigators must reconcile:

1. Clint is the only eyewitness in Holly's case. His description of what occurred does not line up with the timeline. This is not to say that Clint is guilty of anything. It could be:
a. He is not remembering correctly, for whatever reason.
b. He is lying.
c. Everyone else is wrong.

2. This perp would break all the standard rules of kidnapping if he followed the given timeline. He would take up to 20 minutes to complete the kidnapping....that doesn't happen. Kidnappings are fast...perps grab and go...they do not stick around to kneel and talk in the garage.

3. Neighbor's (and neighbor's son) reaction to scream/screams raises red flags...big ones. He was concerned enough to call mom but not enough to check it out. Also, he conveyed the scream in such an emphatic way that his mom called Karen at her job...and then drove over, but only after 20 minutes. Sigh....

4. Did Holly enter the woods? Big question. Clint says yes. I am thinking "no," which is a change of mind for me.

5. Why did Clint not call out? He thought it was his buddy Drew....so why not open the door and call out? That makes no sense.

6. Why did Clint not give chase? He was told to get the gun and chase the guy with Holly, because it wasn't Drew. Why didn't he chase Holly and the perp?

7. How was Holly injured in the carport/garage? Her blood is there. But, according to Clint, she is later seen walking "casually" into the woods with the abductor. Near her car, we hear that her blood is found along with a spilled can of Coke....so that leads us to believe she was startled while leaving for school. We know she was leaving for school around 7:35-7:40, around the time of the scream/s. But she wasn't seen entering the woods until almost 8:00? That doesn't add up. I think the perp was someone Holly knew...and she reasoned with him.

I could go on....but its a bit overwhelming....

ETA: Gotta point out one more thing that drives me nuts. Karen falling out at school after the phone call. Something was going on there that we don't know about.

 

[Whisperer]

If you go back and read the beginning threads of this case, you will discover that the scream was heard by both CB and the neighbor.

:thud:

 

[~n/t~]

:thud:

Hang in there Whisperer :therethere:. The earlier reports also indicated Karen witnessed the abduction.

 

[NCSleuth]

There are so many questions in this case...problems that investigators must reconcile:

1. Clint is the only eyewitness in Holly's case. His description of what occurred does not line up with the timeline. This is not to say that Clint is guilty of anything. It could be:
a. He is not remembering correctly, for whatever reason.
b. He is lying.
c. Everyone else is wrong.

2. This perp would break all the standard rules of kidnapping if he followed the given timeline. He would take up to 20 minutes to complete the kidnapping....that doesn't happen. Kidnappings are fast...perps grab and go...they do not stick around to kneel and talk in the garage.

3. Neighbor's (and neighbor's son) reaction to scream/screams raises red flags...big ones. He was concerned enough to call mom but not enough to check it out. Also, he conveyed the scream in such an emphatic way that his mom called Karen at her job...and then drove over, but only after 20 minutes. Sigh....

4. Did Holly enter the woods? Big question. Clint says yes. I am thinking "no," which is a change of mind for me.

5. Why did Clint not call out? He thought it was his buddy Drew....so why not open the door and call out? That makes no sense.

6. Why did Clint not give chase? He was told to get the gun and chase the guy with Holly, because it wasn't Drew. Why didn't he chase Holly and the perp?

7. How was Holly injured in the carport/garage? Her blood is there. But, according to Clint, she is later seen walking "casually" into the woods with the abductor. Near her car, we hear that her blood is found along with a spilled can of Coke....so that leads us to believe she was startled while leaving for school. We know she was leaving for school around 7:35-7:40, around the time of the scream/s. But she wasn't seen entering the woods until almost 8:00? That doesn't add up. I think the perp was someone Holly knew...and she reasoned with him.

I could go on....but its a bit overwhelming....

ETA: Gotta point out one more thing that drives me nuts. Karen falling out at school after the phone call. Something was going on there that we don't know about.

I agree. From the timeline, we know there was at least 10 minutes from the time of the scream until CB woke up (7:40 - 7:50). We also know CB saw them talking in the carport/garage. What in the world was going on in those 10 minutes! If story is true, I think it was someone HB knew and was reasoning with also. Why else would it take at least 10 minutes to grab her and leave. You don't hang around out in the open for 10 minutes if you are committing a crime. He was very comfortable being there and was not afraid of being seen.

 

[NCSleuth]

How many of you think the story being reported is not accurate?

I don't think the family is involved, but I have to wonder if the story was changed for some reason, maybe to try to protect HB in the beginning.

I keep going back and forth on whether its a true account. I learned a long time ago, if something doesn't make sense its probably not true.

This whole story doesn't make sense. Too many changes from the initial story. I keep thinking about the "home invasion" that was originally reported. And HB beign "dragged". I was one of the first to come to CB defense on the word dragged, I am from the south and use it all the time. "Don't drag me into the conversation, or my wife drug me to the mall with her". So who knows about that.

Then the 15-20 span between the scream and entering the woods. Then CB could hear the police car coming down the road but didn't hear the getaway vehicle. CB seeing them crotched down and heard them talking but not just opening the door and asking who was out there. KB collapsing at work with the first phone call. LE not releasing the 911 tapes (I think they would be very telling). CB contacting his mom because he heard voices out there, then we hear he contacted her because he say HBs car. on and on. All those things make me think the whole story is not true. Something else happened.

BUT. HB has been missing since April, wouldn't the family have come forward by now and set the record straight! Wouldn't they be doing everything possible to get her home.

What do you guys think? Is the story that has been told fairly accurate?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I agree. From the timeline, we know there was at least 10 minutes from the time of the scream until CB woke up (7:40 - 7:50). We also know CB saw them talking in the carport/garage. What in the world was going on in those 10 minutes! If story is true, I think it was someone HB knew and was reasoning with also. Why else would it take at least 10 minutes to grab her and leave. You don't hang around out in the open for 10 minutes if you are committing a crime. He was very comfortable being there and was not afraid of being seen.

Not only that, but if the events were 7:30-7:35 --"flurry of phone calls"
7:40---------Scream heard
7:40-7:50---Scream/ garage sighting
walk to woods

a) if the garage sighting and walk to woods was witnessed by Clint--the SCREAM had to have been heard by Clint, right?

b) Furthermore if those flurry of phone calls were to a home phone "land-line" wouldn't the ring have awoken Clint?

c) My guess?? Clint was part of that 10 minute abduction--in a bystander capacity????

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Sorry NC Sleuth--

Must have been typing my comment the same time as you , as we are on the same wave-length. I agree!!

 

[mountainguy777]

Im thinking they went TO the woods, not INTO
the woods.

 

[Plumeria5]

Not only that, but if the events were 7:30-7:35 --"flurry of phone calls"
7:40---------Scream heard
7:40-7:50---Scream/ garage sighting
walk to woods

a) if the garage sighting and walk to woods was witnessed by Clint--the SCREAM had to have been heard by Clint, right?

b) Furthermore if those flurry of phone calls were to a home phone "land-line" wouldn't the ring have awoken Clint?

c) My guess?? Clint was part of that 10 minute abduction--in a bystander capacity????

It does seem strange that the flurry of phone calls occurred just minutes before Holly's disappearance. While there were a lot of phone calls there is really no proof (I am right about that?) what the phone calls were about. Holly was ready to leave the house for a very important test. Mom had just seen Holly at 7am. I'm not sure I would bother her when she is focused on getting to school for the test with a phone call about Drew's problem with turkey hunting. Just me I guess...

Clint didn't seem to have time to physically be a part of Holly's abduction but elaborating on your (c) that doesn't mean he didn't have knowledge that it was going to happen. The hanging out in the garage during an abduction and then omitting it from the timeline is very puzzling. Let's say I was burglarizing a house. I find a portable game system. I'm not going to sit down in the house and play a game on it for 10 minutes! It's called smash and grab!! Same thing applies for a kidnapping!

If she got hurt, did that person care enough to try to console her in the garage? We can only hope that was the case so there is some hope that she is still alive.

Then the statement from Clint something to the effect that Holly might not be found for quite some time. Strange.

 

[cluciano63]

Between Holly's case, Lauren's case, Hailey Dunn's case, Kyron's case, etc. etc. I guess LE really does not have any responsibility to update their communities on anything. I wonder what it would take for the people in these and other communities to get to a point to demand a face-to-face with LE once in a while, to discuss the "problem" of people simply disappearing.

My belief is that no LEA has any real idea how to deal with missing persons cases and don't want that known. They talk about huge numbers of tips and show stacks of files every once in a while, but I can't remember the last time LE actually found a missing person...JMO

 

[shefner]

Why would the kidnapper walk Holly TO the woods but not INTO the woods? That's just a waste of time. And we all know that abductors/kidnappers are in a hurry.

 

[plaidmom]

Between Holly's case, Lauren's case, Hailey Dunn's case, Kyron's case, etc. etc. I guess LE really does not have any responsibility to update their communities on anything. I wonder what it would take for the people in these and other communities to get to a point to demand a face-to-face with LE once in a while, to discuss the "problem" of people simply disappearing.

My belief is that no LEA has any real idea how to deal with missing persons cases and don't want that known. They talk about huge numbers of tips and show stacks of files every once in a while, but I can't remember the last time LE actually found a missing person...JMO

The more I read Websleuths, the more I want to believe in alien abduction.

I mean seriously, do this many human beings just go *poof* every year? :waitasec:

:crazy:

 

[cluciano63]

The more I read Websleuths, the more I want to believe in alien abduction.

I mean seriously, do this many human beings just go *poof* every year? :waitasec:

:crazy:

Apparently so. And it just seems wrong that LE can hold a community hostage by saying they don't have to tell them anything, when in fact they may know nothing at all. At least in Katelyn Markham's case, LE came out recently and admitted they are no closer to knowing what happened to Katelyn. You don't hear that from LE very often.

 

[Wonless]

Respectfully Wonless, NO, I do not think your comment makes sense, perhaps it is the way it is worded. On one hand you say the "children" could always be very noisy and scream frequently, not prompting an alarming response from the neighbor. Then you say they may Not have be "loud" normally and the scream still would not alarm the neighbor.

So it would seem if You were their neighbor "at no time " would you feel the need to concern yourself with a Scream, and that's ok, that is you, but I find that reasoning difficult to accept on the part of most people.

No way, No how--a scream alarming enough to cause one to notify another should have been dismissed without some investigation by the neighbor who heard it. They live 350 yrds away. He probably passes their house on the way to work? If he did not want to do that, then at least go in his house tell his mom, and wait with her while she makes a few calls to check it out. Then if it really seems like something is wrong--both should go over. Why does he relinquish ALL responsibility to his mother, even allowing her to go over to their house alone. WTH kind of man just dumps something like that on his mother to take care of.

As you said "country does things differently", they keep to themselves? I find it hard to believe a "religious based community like Parson's" doesn't look after their own. MOO The scream and EVERTHING about it is off.


N/T had an interesting observation. Why did the neighbor call Karen first? Why wouldn't she have tried to reach someone at the house first to see if everything was ok? If she did call the house , why did that phone call not wake Clint before 7:50?

My point about the scream is that IMO its contrary to the way things work in the country . I say that from the point of view of someone who lives and has lived in the country a long time. IMO unless it was one hell of a scream from 350 yards, I would bet money the neighbors would mind there own business...UNLESS, it was on hell of a blood curling, long, drawn out scream. Thats just my experience with country folk. They like to be left alone. N/T has a good point about this...its a concatination of circumstances that just don't add up, this guy gets upset enough to take action from a scream 3 + football fields away, but Clint never hears a thing. I think we should all go out and walk 3 football fields and see what we think.

PS.. If you live with you parents, in my book that makes you a kid, regardless of age, and kids make noise and run around screaming all the time, city or country, but IMO especially in the country.

 

[mountainguy777]

Why would the kidnapper walk Holly TO the woods but not INTO the woods? That's just a waste of time. And we all know that abductors/kidnappers are in a hurry.

Its easy to picture that clint sees them walking towards the woods, takes or makes a call and holly and abductor make their way to a closer vehicle. As far as a kidnapper taking time, what we know....if true....is there was no panic to set a speed record for abductions here.

 

[docwho3]

I think someone recently asked if we thought news reports have been
accurate or told us everything (something like that.)
This is my opinion on the matter:

It is almost certain that we are not being told everything about this case
and that some of what we have seen reported in MSM is incorrect.
This is something I have come to expect in cases we read about.
I do not think it is sinister. It just is what happens (for various reasons.)

No mention of weapon has been made until suddenly we learn Holly's
brother had a handgun.

Still no mention of the perp having a weapon & yet we know Holly left
blood behind.

No mention of trail of foot prints or blood beyond edge of yard & yet we
know it was not a deed done by magic. They did not levitate away.
Bleeding people leave a scent trail and usually blood trail. People walking
leave behind tracks. Even if he had taken her to the edge of the yard &
then doubled back there would be some trail to follow to indicate that.

People on dirt roads or going cross country by vehicle generally leave
evidence of some sort that they have passed through. Therefor reports
in MSM that indicate otherwise are likely incorrect/incomplete.

No mention of anyone having stepped in the blood being left behind at the
carport but if there had been a footprint in the blood left by the perp
I do not think LE would have allowed it to be reported.
In past cases footprints of perp have often been withheld from stories
to help ID the perp later.

Personally I think LE found evidence of the two passing through the
yard into the woods and then to a vehicle trail of some sort but perhaps
there were both ATV & other vehicle tracks at some point which
made it hard to know which vehicle was THE vehicle. People evidently do
hunt the area & probably have left tracks of their own, ATV & others.
So LE asked about vehicles in the early MSM reports and 'car' was
mentioned along with 'ATV'.

'. . .The suspect apparently may have cleaned out his car or reported the
car or ATV stolen, Kristen Helm, a public information officer for the
Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, said. . .'
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/17/law-enforcement-continue-search-tenn-woman-250-leads/

We can decide to believe that a ghost levitated Holly away or we can
choose to believe that physical laws still apply & thus evidence was
indeed left behind that we just have not been told about no matter
what MSM news reports have said or have failed to say.

The deed was not magic.

 

[Eileen730]

It does seem strange that the flurry of phone calls occurred just minutes before Holly's disappearance. While there were a lot of phone calls there is really no proof (I am right about that?) what the phone calls were about. Holly was ready to leave the house for a very important test. Mom had just seen Holly at 7am. I'm not sure I would bother her when she is focused on getting to school for the test with a phone call about Drew's problem with turkey hunting. Just me I guess...

Clint didn't seem to have time to physically be a part of Holly's abduction but elaborating on your (c) that doesn't mean he didn't have knowledge that it was going to happen. The hanging out in the garage during an abduction and then omitting it from the timeline is very puzzling. Let's say I was burglarizing a house. I find a portable game system. I'm not going to sit down in the house and play a game on it for 10 minutes! It's called smash and grab!! Same thing applies for a kidnapping!

If she got hurt, did that person care enough to try to console her in the garage? We can only hope that was the case so there is some hope that she is still alive.

Then the statement from Clint something to the effect that Holly might not be found for quite some time. Strange.

This is just a thought i had about that morning.

I think Clint was the one in the garage that morning meeting with someone
Holly interrupted them and whatever was transpiring there in that garage
wasnt someting Clint nor the other person wanted found out, Remember Clint was NOT supposed to be home that morning.

Ok so Holly interrupts and either Clint or the other guy goes after her as she runs away she screams as she is caught She gets hit in the face and knocked out
now everything falls apart, the neighbor hears the scream calls karen, karen calls clint ans says what the heck is going on he says holly is with drew and karen knows its not drew drew is hunting with dad at the grandmothers home.

Meanwhile this other guy takes off with Holly and she is not seen again.

I think instead of looking at thos that Holly knows take a look at Clint 's friends
and associates.

JMO.

 

[mag84]

No mention of trail of foot prints or blood beyond edge of yard & yet we
know it was not a deed done by magic. They did not levitate away.
Bleeding people leave a scent trail and usually blood trail. People walking
leave behind tracks. Even if he had taken her to the edge of the yard &
then doubled back there would be some trail to follow to indicate that.

People on dirt roads or going cross country by vehicle generally leave
evidence of some sort that they have passed through. Therefor reports
in MSM that indicate otherwise are likely incorrect/incomplete.

Respectfully snipped to save space.

BBM

And to add to all of this we were told in the latest article that it had rained nearly an inch the day before. And the pictures we have seen of the back yard showed it was pretty much all dirt, which would have been mud after an inch of rain the previous day. So yeah, footprints and/or tire tracks had to be left behind. I'm pretty sure we haven't bold told nearly everything, and unfortunately may never be, unless somehow LE has a change of heart, which I seriously doubt, or they manage to solve the case, which I seriously hope (although the way things have gone to date I'm not holding my breath). I still hold out hope that Holly is alive somewhere, no matter what statistics and others say. It is possible.