TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30

[Eileen730]

BBM

I had once thought maybe an undergarment, but I forced my mind to divorce that thought because I just couldn't stand to think it.

I dont think this was a sex crime! But thats just my take on all this.

 

[cluciano63]

If you recall it was said her mother was RELEIVED!!!!


Nothing makes any sense..
if ya ask me

My understanding at the time, if she was indeed "relieved" was that if something was found, it could mean Holly could also be found, more so than what was found, but that was just my interpretation.

 

[~n/t~]

If it was a piece of clothing, wouldn't the family have to be notified and confirm whether or not it belonged to Holly?

To me, from reading and listening to some of the family statements, LE is not telling them much of anything. Didn't KB say there was some sort of law about what LE can say or not say.

Why would they tell them it was Holly's blood but not what was found?

 

[cluciano63]

One might be hard pressed to believe that LE's motto is generally "to serve and protect" in this case...JMO

 

[Wonless]

Her name is Heather Sullivan. The one thing that points to these incidents not being related is Heather said her attacker was skinny. She wrote about it on her FB and said she went out to her car to leave early in the morning when it was dark, but forgot her cigarettes. She went back into her house and when she came out again the man attempted to grab her. He stopped and fled when she dropped a kerosene lamp she was carrying and it shattered, and her boyfriend said something from inside the house.

I agree with you about the discription, but the thing is, I trust Ms. Sullivan's discription much more than Clint Bobo's for the following reasons:
1. Clint is seeing the perp from a much greater distance, and through a window, which could IMO distort his appearance.
2. Heavy clothing like Camoflague hunting gear is bulky and IMO could easily distort a person's wieght. I have a heavy camo winter coat(field and stream brand), and Im skinny(ish) and it makes me look alot bigger than I am.
3. Clint is not a trained eye at making descriptions...it is a skill that takes time to perfect.
4. Clint isn't alarmed by the sighting so he doesn't nessesarily take extra careful notice.
5. Clints discription of the man's height has changed allready(or at least the reporting of it) for 6" to 5" 10'...which I find very hard to believe he could judge to any accaracy from any distance without some training and experience.

6. Ms. Sullivan actual comes into physical contact or close proximity to the perp, so her discription I would assume would be based on her own size as a frame of reference..i.e...he was smaller than me or he was taller than me...

I can't dismiss that this could be the same guy at all based solely on the fact that Ms. Sullivan's attacker was skinny..because I can't trust Clint Bobo's discription.

 

[~n/t~]

I agree with you about the discription, but the thing is, I trust Ms. Sullivan's discription much more than Clint Bobo's for the following reasons:
1. Clint is seeing the perp from a much greater distance, and through a window, which could IMO distort his appearance.
2. Heavy clothing like Camoflague hunting gear is bulky and IMO could easily distort a person's wieght. I have a heavy camo winter coat(field and stream brand), and Im skinny(ish) and it makes me look alot bigger than I am.
3. Clint is not a trained eye at making descriptions...it is a skill that takes time to perfect.
4. Clint isn't alarmed by the sighting so he doesn't nessesarily take extra careful notice.
5. Clints discription of the man's height has changed allready(or at least the reporting of it) for 6" to 5" 10'...which I find very hard to believe he could judge to any accaracy from any distance without some training and experience.

6. Ms. Sullivan actual comes into physical contact or close proximity to the perp, so her discription I would assume would be based on her own size as a frame of reference..i.e...he was smaller than me or he was taller than me...

I can't dismiss that this could be the same guy at all based solely on the fact that Ms. Sullivan's attacker was skinny..because I can't trust Clint Bobo's discription.

Do you have a link to the description of Heather's perp/attacker? I googled and the only ones I could find was a tall white male. Other articles say tall skinny man.

It`s a tall, white male. That`s how Heather Sullivan described her perpetrator, her attacker. Also, she also lives in a home that`s surrounded by a wooded area. So there are some similarities here. Now she managed to escape, luckily for her.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/20/ng.01.html

Heather Sullivan, 31, who lives only 45 minutes from the Parsons home where Holly was taken last week, said a 'tall skinny man' tried to grab her arm as she got out of the car at her home in January.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cal-woman-says-skinny-man-tried-grab-too.html


Not much of a description considering she was so close to him. No hair colour, clothing, etc

 

[Oriah]

.....and I am only speaking for MYSELF, Oriah, "right up there-shoulder to shoulder with their loved ones ' rescue and recovery" would be a distant "shoulder" if procuring that prosecution meant control and constraint of the situation by LE.

If finding a person alive would mean sharing information that might jeopardize the conviction of that person, I would say there is not one family who would put that prosecution "shoulder to shoulder" in their priorities.
Maybe I misunderstood your comment, since I know you have worked extensively with the families of the missing. Please correct me if I got it wrong.:nono: Thanks, Oriah.

Not sure if I understand what you're saying.
But what I was saying is that in my experience, most families of missing persons want their missing person found (with the exception of those who are responsible for a disappearance. Which is much more rare than the media would have it appear, imo.)

And if their loved one has been abducted, they usually want to prosecute the person(s) responsible for the abduction- whether their loved one is rescued OR recovered. And so does LE.

 

[mag84]

I dont think this was a sex crime! But thats just my take on all this.

I'm curious as to why you think that way? I've been trying to keep an open mind to all possibilities, but there's always that thing there in the back of my mind that I try to block out. I guess being the victim of an attempted sexual assault makes it hard for me to block out that scenario. So I really am curious as to your thoughts.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Not sure if I understand what you're saying.
But what I was saying is that in my experience, most families of missing persons want their missing person found (with the exception of those who are responsible for a disappearance. Which is much more rare than the media would have it appear, imo.)

And if their loved one has been abducted, they usually want to prosecute the person(s) responsible for the abduction- whether their loved one is rescued OR recovered. And so does LE.

OK, I agree absolutely that a family would want to prosecute the person's responsible , whether their loved one is rescued or recovered". However the prosecutable evidence cannot be the priority. If there is a chance of a "rescue" any and all information "case sensitive or not" that might bring that victim home ALIVE trumps the effort to preserve that evidence for a successful prosecution when that case goes to court.
Do you agree?
I mean if it becomes fact the victim is deceased (body is recovered) then all bets are off as to what info is released or retained. Time is no longer important for a rescue. I think we are on the same wavelength, we just said it differently?:dunno:

 

[Oriah]

[/b]

OK, I agree absolutely that a family would want to prosecute the person's responsible , whether their loved one is rescued or recovered". However the prosecutable evidence cannot be the priority. If there is a chance of a "rescue" any and all information "case sensitive or not" that might bring that victim home ALIVE trumps the effort to preserve that evidence for a successful prosecution when that case goes to court.
Do you agree?
I mean if it becomes fact the victim is deceased (body is recovered) then all bets are off as to what info is released or retained. Time is no longer important for a rescue. I think we are on the same wavelength, we just said it differently?:dunno:

BBM:

That's why I said shoulder to shoulder.

Prosecutorial evidence becomes an unfortunate priority in the event an abducted person is found deceased. It's all that can be done at that point. But if an abducted missing person is found alive- then evidence is still needed- because a terrible crime has taken place.

These two needs do not cancel one another out. It is possible to preserve evidence of a crime involving a missing person, while at the same time searching for a missing person.

In my experience, most loved ones of missing abducted persons want resolution for either-or both- of these issues.

Hope this makes sense. :waitasec:

 

[Wonless]

Do you have a link to the description of Heather's perp/attacker? I googled and the only ones I could find was a tall white male. Other articles say tall skinny man.



http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/20/ng.01.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cal-woman-says-skinny-man-tried-grab-too.html


Not much of a description considering she was so close to him. No hair colour, clothing, etc

I don't have anything more than what you have listed here, I am just going by her story...I was under the impression that the lack of description was due to darkness, but IMO in a dark environment, the only thing you would be able to determine is a person's size (outline), especially if that person comes physically close to you, so that the frame of reference is to yourself, i.e. the person was taller than me..etc. I don't know, my point is that its possibly a pattern, and I really think its possible that Holly Bobo's disappearance is the work of a total stranger, and possible a serial killer. It just makes the most sense to me, although the more Clint Bobo and the family speak, the less the "story" make sense.

 

[~n/t~]

I don't have anything more than what you have listed here, I am just going by her story...I was under the impression that the lack of description was due to darkness, but IMO in a dark environment, the only thing you would be able to determine is a person's size (outline), especially if that person comes physically close to you, so that the frame of reference is to yourself, i.e. the person was taller than me..etc. I don't know, my point is that its possibly a pattern, and I really think its possible that Holly Bobo's disappearance is the work of a total stranger, and possible a serial killer. It just makes the most sense to me, although the more Clint Bobo and the family speak, the less the "story" make sense.

I was hoping she had given a better description. The perp in that case grabbed her arm so one would think she would get a close up of his face. I realize it was dark but hair colour and perhaps facial features...if he had a mustache, etc.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about Holly's perp being a stranger but the camo makes no sense to me. A stranger wouldn't go out of his way to dress up in camo, especially not a serial killer. He'd act on impulse, grab his victim and take off which doesn't seem to be what happened in Holly's case.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

BBM:

That's why I said shoulder to shoulder.

Prosecutorial evidence becomes an unfortunate priority in the event an abducted person is found deceased. It's all that can be done at that point. But if an abducted missing person is found alive- then evidence is still needed- because a terrible crime has taken place.

These two needs do not cancel one another out. It is possible to preserve evidence of a crime involving a missing person, while at the same time searching for a missing person.

In my experience, most loved ones of missing abducted persons want resolution for either-or both- of these issues.

Hope this makes sense. :waitasec:

:thumb:Got It!

Achieving that goal depends on the qualifications of that particular LE agency. Not sure what we have in Parsons.
I'll stop beating that poor horse now. LOL!!

 

[concentric]

It is possible that more than one perp. is working together as a team. And we've been discussing fugitives all along.

Perhaps the Heather and Holly cases are not unrelated. There is no way to know yet.

Also, we have no idea if the perp.(s) have contacted LE, the media, or the family. Maybe that is the reason for information being withheld. LE may be tracking and not want to alert the perp.(s) to what they are doing.

 

[~n/t~]

It is possible that more than one perp. is working together as a team. And we've been discussing fugitives all along.

Perhaps the Heather and Holly cases are not unrelated. There is no way to know yet.

Also, we have no idea if the perp.(s) have contacted LE, the media, or the family. Maybe that is the reason for information being withheld. LE may be tracking and not want to alert the perp.(s) to what they are doing.

Why would the perp have contacted LE? The family? For ransom? Nah. Especially not a fugitive.

 

[Wonless]

I was hoping she had given a better description. The perp in that case grabbed her arm so one would think she would get a close up of his face. I realize it was dark but hair colour and perhaps facial features...if he had a mustache, etc.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about Holly's perp being a stranger but the camo makes no sense to me. A stranger wouldn't go out of his way to dress up in camo, especially not a serial killer. He'd act on impulse, grab his victim and take off which doesn't seem to be what happened in Holly's case.

I saw the google earth of the Sullivan house and it is very rural and wooded, and it can be really really dark, like unbelieable dark to somebody from the city.

I disagree, many serial killers don't act on pure inpulse..They get the impulse and then go out and start hunting for a victim, and the hunt can be very much a part of the psycotic fantasy. If this guy's MO is to stalk rural area's such as the Swift's, the Bodo's, or the Sullivan's, I would expect he would be wearing Camo, I mean he would fit in and could always use the excuse that he was hunting if he was seen someplace he shouldn't be, and he could more easily hide it that terrian. I would however totally agree with you if these attacks had happened on a city street, Camo would be out of place.

IMO the evidence is that Holly was suprised and attacked via the dropped coke can and the blood..and that because of the setting the attacker couldn't carry her so he had to talk to his injured/bleeding victim who was likely in shock, in order to tell her what he needed her to do so he could get her to a vehicle. I think these are the voices Clint heard, and I think that when Clint heard them, thats when he though it was Drew. I think that when he later saw them, it wasn't that he possitively IDed Drew, but just that nothing made him think it wasn't Drew..and that due to some dynamic we don't understand, he didn't pay much attention. Here is a list of some of the things I think that dynamic could have been.
He was only partially awake/possibly drug or alcohol related.
He was on the phone with a girlfriend.
He was just out of the shower/not dressed
He was in the middle of a "private moment".
He was in the habit of not paying much attention to his sister went she was alone with her BF, which he thought she was.
A combination of several of these.
My point is, the factual things he witnessed make sense, but he never understood what they meant/what was actually happening.
After his mom freaked out, he possibly was frozen with shock also...which is very common, even if a person is physically brave. Thats why Military and LE personal have such difficult training, so that they will be able to react instantly under sever stress situations. Clint didn't have this type of training that we know of.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I hope the word is out for all these young ladies that no matter what... don't allow anyone to get you into a vehicle and take you to another location. I just can't picture Holly complying without restraints in the vehicle unless it was someone she knew and thought she could talk her way out of it.

I read this in a true-crime book, but now I can't remember the citation...I think the chapter was how to handle yourself to maximize the chances that you'll survive an assault: do everything you can to prevent yourself from being taken to a second location (away from the original site). It may have been the book about Sexual Homicide by Robert Ressler et al. Just wanted to share this because it really struck me when I was reading.

 

[cluciano63]

The bit about "camo" doesn't really stand out to me in this case, seeing how many relative locals signed on early in the case and indicated that "camo" is just another words for "clothes" in certain parts. Probably would stand out more not wearing camo around wooded areas.

As a person, I can't imagine worrying about convictions while a family member was still missing. That would be so far from my mind. LE's job is supposed to be to serve their community, which includes locking up the dangerous and guilty, but also should include (all IMO again) to communicate with their community, work less secretly, at the very least hold press conferences to inform them as to why they are being so silent, etc...

JMOJMOJMO

 

[Wonless]

The bit about "camo" doesn't really stand out to me in this case, seeing how many relative locals signed on early in the case and indicated that "camo" is just another words for "clothes" in certain parts. Probably would stand out more not wearing camo around wooded areas.

As a person, I can't imagine worrying about convictions while a family member was still missing. That would be so far from my mind. LE's job is supposed to be to serve their community, which includes locking up the dangerous and guilty, but also should include (all IMO again) to communicate with their community, work less secretly, at the very least hold press conferences to inform them as to why they are being so silent, etc...

JMOJMOJMO

IMO only the guilty should be locked up..if being dangerous was a criteria, every person who text's while they drive would be in jail. But I agree, a conviction should be second to saving someones life. LE should seek the public's help by releasing information. I just think that in Holly's case, they don't have anything to release.

 

[cluciano63]

IMO only the guilty should be locked up..if being dangerous was a criteria, every person who text's while they drive would be in jail. But I agree, a conviction should be second to saving someones life. LE should seek the public's help by releasing information. I just think that in Holly's case, they don't have anything to release.

If it is true that they have nothing to release, IMO, all the more reason to seek out help from the public. Many people are probably assuming LE has this all figured out and are just trying to get the proof, so perhaps they are no longer thinking about the possible whos, whats, wheres, of that day anymore. If LE ever does come out and ask for help, they will be facing a lot of cold memories.