TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #1

[otto]

What kind of man is her husband? Is he the type that would put her in the back 40 and then throw away her phone near the river to throw police off the track? What time was it first reported to police that she was missing and anyone know who made the report? I heard it was 4 in the afternoon that her family was notified. Has the husband's computer been collected?

(I need to visualize everything)

 

[otto]

Regarding Nancy Grace and the implication that there is something wrong with the family of a missing person staying home rather than trudging through swamps searching ... what would she do if her children were missing? Would she seriously be wading through rivers searching, or would she be at home, grieving and hoping to receive a phone call with good news ... . Nancy Grace knows exactly what the family of a missing person would do, but she plays it up as though it's abnormal ... all for the ratings, not for the missing person or their family.

Granted, aloofness can mimic grieving, the need for privacy, hope, concern, and a cautiousness with the media, but sometimes it is nothing more than aloofness, perhaps callous disregard, or fear.

 

[otto]

If she was expected to be at the house that night, then it could be considered pre-meditated. Since, as far as we know, she was only there because her daughter needed to be taken home, it's difficult to believe that it was pre-meditated (although the thought was probably there). If it was an altercation from the top of the stairs, then I would suspect that she's in the back 40, with after thoughts about moving the car, slashing the tire and tossing the phone in a missippi river - just speculating.

Was she planning to stay away from the home that night, or was she coming home anyway after the party?

 

[~n/t~]

Transcripts up from tonight now

BBM & red below bothers me...
_____________________

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go to Levi Page, crime blogger, Internet radio host, and based in the area. Obviously, it`s standard procedure, Levi, to look at the closest family when somebody disappears. Karen filed for divorce from her husband 19 days before she goes missing.

Other than her daughters, who are very young, Karen`s husband is reportedly the last person to see her. I want to stress, cops say he is not a suspect, but what are your thoughts on how they need to investigate this to eliminate him or not?

LEVI PAGE, CRIME BLOGGER: Well, it will be interesting to note whether or not he`s taken a polygraph. We don`t know. The investigators are keeping everything close to the vest, as they should.

We do know that there was a friend -- her name was Laura Jane -- gave a quote to "The Huffington Post," and she described their relationship as volatile. And she also -- I don`t know this for a fact; the investigators have not confirmed it -- she says that David Smith, her estranged husband, hired an attorney and is refusing to cooperate with the investigators.

And going back to what the other guest just said earlier about a connection between Holly Bobo and other women who have disappeared in the same area here in Tennessee, the fact is, is that it could also be a hunter. Remember, in the Holly Bobo case, her brother seen her leaving into the woods with someone dressed in camouflage.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Good theories. We want to find her.
_____________________

Levi saying HUNTER reminded me that weekend was White Tail Deer season for Young Sportsman:

Young Sportsman Oct. 29-30, 2011
HUNTING HOURS: Crows, doves, ducks (including the early duck season), geese, gallinules, rails, turkey, woodcock, Wilson snipe - One-half hour before legal sunrise to legal sunset, except for dove hunting on opening day when shooting hours will begin at noon. All other game species (except fox chasing and raccoon, opossum, and bullfrogs) - One-half hour before legal sunrise to one-half hour after legal sunset. Fox and rabbit chasing, furbearer trapping, raccoon, opossum, and bullfrog hunting may be done day or night.

http://tn.gov/twra/pdfs/wallet.pdf

http://www.sunrisesunset.com/calendar.asp

snipped...
Oct 30 2011
Twi: 6:51am
Sunrise: 7:17am
Sunset: 6:05pm
Twi: 6:31pm

Just saying...

:banghead:

 

[cluciano63]

IMO, there is no connection between Karen's disappearance and Holly's, or Shelly's, etc...and it is irresponsible to be trying to connect them on these gossipy shows...JMO

 

[TxLady2]

I guess I was wondering if what he saw from the "top of the stairs" is that she was at the front door leaving (is the front door at the bottom of the stairs?). Is he saying that he just happened to be at the top of the stairs while she was moving around on the main floor sometime between 2 and 5 AM and she was walking by the stairs, or is he saying that she was at the front door ready to leave when he just happened to be standing at the top of the stairs? Was her car in the attached garage or parked in front of the garage?

Here's a layout of the property. The front door is in roughly the center of the front of the house, but if she was parked in the garage, she should not have been at the front door ... if that is what is at the bottom of the stairs ... she would have gone through the house to the attached garage. It also looks like there is an exit near the garage, so it's more likely she would have left through that door - if she was leaving alone in the middle of the night. I'm wondering about the layout in terms of why she would be at the bottom of the stairs - to understand if this is plausible.

For example, it looks like there was an addition put on the house in the last three years where the carport to the left of the house (facing front) was converted into living space and the garage was added on at the far left. Were two bedrooms added in that part of the house and, if so, why would Karen be at the bottom of the stairs? The house seems to have a layout - based on looking at previous similar houses - of great/dining rooms at the front of the house on either side of the front door, family/kitchen at the back of the house. Normally, there are no bedrooms on the main floor in that type of layout. With the addition on the left of the house, that could be two bedrooms and a hallway leading to the garage with an exterior people door just inside the garage (in case the car was parked in the driveway) ... not sure. Suppose this is true, then I'm very curious why Karen's husband saw her at the bottom of the stairs at an unknown time.

I can't answer all your questions, sorry. But you're doing a good job digging and looking at all the angles. That's exactly what LE has to do... be objective and look at everything, not just the obvious. They would be remiss to ONLY suspect the husband at this point.

I presume that when he said he saw her from the top of the stairs, she was either going down them, almost to the bottom or was already on the landing at the bottom, but that's just a guess. And if she planned to go back out, she could have left her car in the front, especially if she was helping a sick daughter into the house.

I am like you, I wish these shows like NG and JVM would not try to dramatiize everything, but that's what keeps the ratings up.

 

[TxLady2]

:banghead:

Yeah.... ditto for me. Frustrating, isn't it?

 

[tarabull]

Wow, i didn't mean to provoke frustration, but rather spurred my own thoughts back to the fact it WAS young sportsman hunting season that particular weekend...and then wonder what EXACTLY that might mean in and around Dyersburg & Dyer county.

i'm not a hunter, nor am i close to any...but i do suspect it's a popular sport in TN...so would it feel like christmas to a young sportsman?? therefore, would there be lots of folks (chomping at the bit) up early even on the move to get where they want to be so they are ready and waiting one-half hour before legal sunrise of 7:17 that morning????...i suppose it depends where you were going from and to, how you might get there and your means of travel - vehicle vs atv vs on foot, riverside, lakeside, definitely backroads and in the bush...or no?

IMHO, other peoples perceptions are always interesting. Not everyone thinks the same.

The word HUNTER stated on JVM got my mind racing about the facts of that morning.

Neither shows (JVM nor NG) made the stretch (?) to the fact that it was hunting season and if they did I MISSED IT but then again plenty of us would say those shows do tend to get tunnel vision in lots of cases.

:waitasec:

Just to reiterate, as i stated up thread, i will eat my hat if Karen's missing person case connects to anyone elses.

:banghead:

 

[~n/t~]

Wow, i didn't mean to provoke frustration, but rather spurred my own thoughts back to the fact it WAS young sportsman hunting season that particular weekend...and then wonder what EXACTLY that might mean in and around Dyersburg & Dyer county.

i'm not a hunter, nor am i close to any...but i do suspect it's a popular sport in TN...so would it feel like christmas to a young sportsman?? therefore, would there be lots of folks (chomping at the bit) up early even on the move to get where they want to be so they are ready and waiting one-half hour before legal sunrise of 7:17 that morning????...i suppose it depends where you were going from and to, how you might get there and your means of travel - vehicle vs atv vs on foot, riverside, lakeside, definitely backroads and in the bush...or no?

IMHO, other peoples perceptions are always interesting. Not everyone thinks the same.

The word HUNTER stated on JVM got my mind racing about the facts of that morning.

Neither shows (JVM nor NG) made the stretch (?) to the fact that it was hunting season and if they did I MISSED IT but then again plenty of us would say those shows do tend to get tunnel vision in lots of cases.

:waitasec:

Just to reiterate, as i stated up thread, i will eat my hat if Karen's missing person case connects to anyone elses.

:banghead:

Hi tara,

The frustration wasn't directed at you. Not sure if you followed Holly Bobo's case or not. Her brother the only eye witness said he saw Holly being dragged/lead into the woods by a man dressed in camouflage and it was hunting season so the theory is that whoever kidnapped Holly is a local hunter. His version has changed over time and 7 months later, Holly is still missing.

 

[tarabull]

Hi tara,

The frustration wasn't directed at you. Not sure if you followed Holly Bobo's case or not. Her brother the only eye witness said he saw Holly being dragged/lead into the woods by a man dressed in camouflage and it was hunting season so the theory is that whoever kidnapped Holly is a local hunter. His version has changed over time and 7 months later, Holly is still missing.

Thanks ~n/t~ and oh yes I am familiar...(above bbm)

So then ------------ ahem ------------ do you suppose Holly's case & the hunter theroy is well known throughout the area - specifically within 130 miles of Holly's home?

:waitasec:

 

[~n/t~]

Thanks ~n/t~ and oh yes I am familiar...(above bbm)

So then ------------ ahem ------------ do you suppose Holly's case & the hunter theroy is well known throughout the area - specifically within 130 miles of Holly's home?

:waitasec:

Levi Page covered Holly's case on his show a couple of times so perhaps it was just one of his theories.

I don't think Holly's and Karen's case are connected nor do I believe the other 3 are connected.

I think they each have their own suspicions on who the perp might be and it's not the same guy in the 5 cases, imo.

I'll be very disappointed if local LE or TBI doesn't solve this case. :banghead:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Please hold the tomatoes!! I am only talking generalities here and I personally do not believe the cases Are connected.. However instead of just "bumping" Karen's thread I thought I'd discuss a couple other generalities that they have in common..

As I said the chances are pretty much zero IMO that there is a connection, Mainly due to the fact that I strongly feel as tho Karen's husband is involved in what's happened to her.. That said not only are both of these homes in areas of big hunting country and it being peak hunting seasons..
I'll list them.. Again just generalities but what a coinkidink!

Holly and Karen uncanny similarities
- both's homes are located in rural area of Tennessee

-both's homes are located in an area of hunting and disappearance during hunting season

- both women disappeared in the early morning hours*

- as well as it's likely that both women disappeared from their own homes/property(I personally believe that Karen never left her home after going to bed with her 9yr old daughter at 2:00am)

- Holly's address is Swan Johnson Rd/Karen's address is Willie Johnson Rd

- both were last seen by one individual, a family member(Holly-brother/Karen-husband)

- and if you look at the aerial photos of each they are eerily similar.. Both have the circular swimming pool in identical spots..

- along with both homes had recently enclosed their "garage" area into home interior living space..

I know that others have listed other commonalities between the two but these are just some of the more general commonalities that were off the top of my head..*

As I said I personally do not believe these two cases are related.. But when you add the ^above^ multiple similar details go the multiple one's others have already listed and discussed it does really make ya go..hhmmmmmmmm...

As I said hold the tomatoes!! Not necessary and just putting food for thought out there.. Sadly I believe that it will be Karen's husband that is found to be responsible for her disappearance which am ATLEAST thankful in that it will not continue to drag out like Holly's case unsolved and no closure.. I feel Karen's will likely be solved within the near future.. Jmo, tho!!

 

[ThoughtFox]

Okay, yeah, it could be a hunter in this case, young or not.

But :cow: . . . Just my opinon only . . .

No neighbor has mentioned hearing a gunshot that night, right? Hunters often do stupid things like hunt behind people's houses in residential areas, but they don't use silencers.

And a hunter wouldn't explain why she left the house either at night or early in the morning on a Sunday.

And a hunter wouldn't explain why the husband didn't ask where she was going that night/morning (surely he would?) if he saw her at all.

Also, we have to look at motive. Who slashed her tire? Who put her in the river? A teenage hunter? I don't think so. :twocents:

JMOO

 

[TxLady2]

Wow, i didn't mean to provoke frustration, but rather spurred my own thoughts back to the fact it WAS young sportsman hunting season that particular weekend...and then wonder what EXACTLY that might mean in and around Dyersburg & Dyer county.

i'm not a hunter, nor am i close to any...but i do suspect it's a popular sport in TN...so would it feel like christmas to a young sportsman?? therefore, would there be lots of folks (chomping at the bit) up early even on the move to get where they want to be so they are ready and waiting one-half hour before legal sunrise of 7:17 that morning????...i suppose it depends where you were going from and to, how you might get there and your means of travel - vehicle vs atv vs on foot, riverside, lakeside, definitely backroads and in the bush...or no?

IMHO, other peoples perceptions are always interesting. Not everyone thinks the same.

The word HUNTER stated on JVM got my mind racing about the facts of that morning.

Neither shows (JVM nor NG) made the stretch (?) to the fact that it was hunting season and if they did I MISSED IT but then again plenty of us would say those shows do tend to get tunnel vision in lots of cases.

:waitasec:

Just to reiterate, as i stated up thread, i will eat my hat if Karen's missing person case connects to anyone elses.

:banghead:

My frustration was not aimed at you... please forgive.

With all due respect to Levi, I cannot make the connection between Holly's case and Karen's just because the perp in Holly's case was wearing camo clothes. I know some are going on the theory by that detective guy who is trying to connect 5 separate cases, but to assume it's a hunter going around stalking and kidnapping young women is just a bit of a stretch, IMO.
Karen is not a young, single female, she is in her 40's with 4 children. She may look similar to these others, but so do 2/3 of the young women in America with blonde hair.

 

[katydid23]

IF, and I say IF, she was out pre-dawn, and had a flat tire, then I could see a car full of hunters possibly having their way with her. But I am not convinced that she was actually out of the house voluntarily at that time.

 

[samsmom]

IF, and I say IF, she was out pre-dawn, and had a flat tire, then I could see a car full of hunters possibly having their way with her. But I am not convinced that she was actually out of the house voluntarily at that time.

and it could have been a car full of Halloween partiers too. Anything is possible, but the most probable is someone close to her. IMO

 

[ThoughtFox]

Guys, camo clothing is like a second skin to some people in rural areas. It's not indicative of anything except that some people like to wear it, especially hunters.

But hunters are not the only people who wear camo.

(This sounds like one of those venn diagram things they study in legal logic classes, lol.)

People wear it who have never shot a thing, especially in winter or early spring because it is warm. Some people wear it just because they work outside. Tons of this type of clothing goes on sale every year at K-Mart and Wal Mart in rural areas.

It's just very very very common. :twocents:

IF, and I say IF, she was out pre-dawn, and had a flat tire, then I could see a car full of hunters possibly having their way with her. But I am not convinced that she was actually out of the house voluntarily at that time.

With all due respect, I don't see that scenario as plausible. Most hunters in TN are just ordinary guys, and if this was young hunter weekend they might have their kids with them. Not all hunters are hell-raisers.

 

[katydid23]

Guys, camo clothing is like a second skin to some people in rural areas. It's not indicative of anything except that some people like to wear it, especially hunters.

But hunters are not the only people who wear camo.

(This sounds like one of those venn diagram things they study in legal logic classes, lol.)

People wear it who have never shot a thing, especially in winter or early spring because it is warm. Some people wear it just because they work outside. Tons of this type of clothing goes on sale every year at K-Mart and Wal Mart in rural areas.

It's just very very very common. :twocents:



With all due respect, I don't see that scenario as plausible. Most hunters in TN are just ordinary guys, and if this was young hunter weekend they might have their kids with them. Not all hunters are hell-raisers.

Of course they aren't. My uncles and cousins are avid moose/deer/quail hunters. And they are upstanding, kind family men.

Just saying that IF she was out stranded before dawn, there is a possibility that she would be seen by hunters because they would be out at the same time, and they would be armed.

ETA: But I still am not convinced she left home willingly.

 

[cluciano63]

My frustration was not aimed at you... please forgive.

With all due respect to Levi, I cannot make the connection between Holly's case and Karen's just because the perp in Holly's case was wearing camo clothes. I know some are going on the theory by that detective guy who is trying to connect 5 separate cases, but to assume it's a hunter going around stalking and kidnapping young women is just a bit of a stretch, IMO.
Karen is not a young, single female, she is in her 40's with 4 children. She may look similar to these others, but so do 2/3 of the young women in America with blonde hair.

I am just waiting for someone to add Baby Lisa to the list, she is a cute blond too

 

[OldSteve]

Please hold the tomatoes!! I am only talking generalities here and I personally do not believe the cases Are connected.. However instead of just "bumping" Karen's thread I thought I'd discuss a couple other generalities that they have in common..

As I said the chances are pretty much zero IMO that there is a connection, Mainly due to the fact that I strongly feel as tho Karen's husband is involved in what's happened to her.. That said not only are both of these homes in areas of big hunting country and it being peak hunting seasons..
I'll list them.. Again just generalities but what a coinkidink!

Holly and Karen uncanny similarities
- both's homes are located in rural area of Tennessee

-both's homes are located in an area of hunting and disappearance during hunting season

- both women disappeared in the early morning hours*

- as well as it's likely that both women disappeared from their own homes/property(I personally believe that Karen never left her home after going to bed with her 9yr old daughter at 2:00am)

- Holly's address is Swan Johnson Rd/Karen's address is Willie Johnson Rd

- both were last seen by one individual, a family member(Holly-brother/Karen-husband)

- and if you look at the aerial photos of each they are eerily similar.. Both have the circular swimming pool in identical spots..

- along with both homes had recently enclosed their "garage" area into home interior living space..

I know that others have listed other commonalities between the two but these are just some of the more general commonalities that were off the top of my head..*

As I said I personally do not believe these two cases are related.. But when you add the ^above^ multiple similar details go the multiple one's others have already listed and discussed it does really make ya go..hhmmmmmmmm...

As I said hold the tomatoes!! Not necessary and just putting food for thought out there.. Sadly I believe that it will be Karen's husband that is found to be responsible for her disappearance which am ATLEAST thankful in that it will not continue to drag out like Holly's case unsolved and no closure.. I feel Karen's will likely be solved within the near future.. Jmo, tho!!

No tomatoes - thanks for interesting observations! In fact when I saw the overhead photo that otto had posted, I thought at first it was the Bobo property by mistake.