Identified! TN - Knox Co, 'Shotgun Jane Doe' WhtFem 607UFTN, 21-30, Jun'87 - Tena Marie Gattrell

[Roselvr]

There is a new organization called DNA Doe Project that is trying to identify Does using the family tree DNA site GEDmatch and GEDmatch Genesis. One co-owner is Colleen Fitzpatrick who identified Lori Ruff this way.

I suggested her to them. I think it would be better if LE makes contact with them as they have a long list of UP's suggested. LE can email them at: admin@dnadoeproject.org for more information

If you haven't heard, they ran Lyle Stevik (March 22) and Buckskin Girl's (Thursday) DNA thru GEDmatch. They know Lyle's Y-DNA haplogroup: R1b-DF81 and his mitochondrial DNA haplogroup, which is B2a; most commonly found among Native Americans in the Southwest US and Northern Mexico. See the article to read more - Internet sleuths, DNA link John Doe to Northern New Mexico

Someone posted on Buckskin Girl's FB page that their mom got a call from LE on Good Friday saying a relative matched BG's DNA on GEDmatch. The posts have been removed due to family being harassed. DNA Doe Project can not confirm the match; it would be LE's job and the DNA has to be a CODIS match; so they have to do a missing person's report, then take the mothers DNA. It could be a long process.

Anyway, I'd love to see SJD run thru GEDmatch. LE has done whatever they could to ID her with isotopes. I do wonder if they'd also consider having pollen done on her clothes/ shoes.


DNA Doe Project cases
DNA Doe Project Facebook

Buckskin girl is confirmed IDd 4/11 by LE. They confirmed DNA Doe project got a family match then LE ran mom's DNA to confirm.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

I contacted the DNA Doe Project. They say they are "deluged" at the moment and can't help. Plus they have upped their DNA cost to $1650. When I offered to pay myself without a fundraiser, they said they would need to add another $1000 for themselves. It is all by text so I have proof of the conversation. Some lady named Margaret. Anyone else want to try?

 

[Roselvr]

I contacted the DNA Doe Project. They say they are "deluged" at the moment and can't help. Plus they have upped their DNA cost to $1650. When I offered to pay myself without a fundraiser, they said they would need to add another $1000 for themselves. It is all by text so I have proof of the conversation. Some lady named Margaret. Anyone else want to try?

I'd like to see the convo where they wanted another $1,000 for themselves. My email is my user name at gmail

 

[Tssiemer]

An additional $1000? Isn’t it all volunteers? I mean. I can see the cost of the test and maybe a nice donation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[C. Walter Brown]

Sent to your email a JPG of the thread.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

Full text of their reply:

Hi Chipper (Margaret here). Please email us at admin@dnadoeproject.org. We're deluged at the moment so give us a day or two to respond. We do note cases where funding has been offered. The next step would be for the agency to email us directly and we'll explain the DNA requirements and pricing. For your own information the lab costs alone are about $1650. We need to start adding a $1000 fee ourselves to cover our own costs.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

My question to them was that if I covered the costs what would they need from us. The DNA has already been sequenced. Would I need the LE to send paperwork or a sample of the DNA? $2500 still isn't that much money, but I would like to know what databases we would check against etc.

Their website reads:
Each case costs approximately $1500 to process. As soon as the funding goal for a Doe is reached, we will give the lab the green light to start the sequencing. Results will become available in one to two months.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

One additional question. I see that Barbara Hunt was excluded from this Jane Doe. Does anyone know on what basis she was excluded?

 

[Roselvr]

Full text of their reply:

Hi Chipper (Margaret here). Please email us at admin@dnadoeproject.org. We're deluged at the moment so give us a day or two to respond. We do note cases where funding has been offered. The next step would be for the agency to email us directly and we'll explain the DNA requirements and pricing. For your own information the lab costs alone are about $1650. We need to start adding a $1000 fee ourselves to cover our own costs.

Thanks for sending it. I've emailed Colleen to see whats going on. I'm shocked to see the extra $1,000 and would like clarification. Will let everyone know when I hear so please don't start sharing it find out. They're a new organization, I'm sure there is an explanation for it.

 

[Roselvr]

My question to them was that if I covered the costs what would they need from us. The DNA has already been sequenced. Would I need the LE to send paperwork or a sample of the DNA? $2500 still isn't that much money, but I would like to know what databases we would check against etc.

Their website reads:
Each case costs approximately $1500 to process. As soon as the funding goal for a Doe is reached, we will give the lab the green light to start the sequencing. Results will become available in one to two months.

They can't use the NamUs sample it would have to be a fresh one by blood, tooth or bone from what I remember reading. I haven't seen any of the Doe's cost $1,500; the $1,650 is what I've seen.

One additional question. I see that Barbara Hunt was excluded from this Jane Doe. Does anyone know on what basis she was excluded?

Not sure if we turned her in. Her NamUs says prints and DNA available

 

[C. Walter Brown]

Interesting now that they have identified Buckskin Jane Doe. I noticed that her isotope test gave her area as:
Texas and southern Oklahoma (Close)

But she was from Arkansas. And was reported missing from Ohio.

Authorities can point to her being in Louisville, Ky. before she died—and Pittsburgh, Pa., in March 1981, in the month before she was killed.

It makes me wonder how much we should really rely on Shotgun Jane Doe's Isotope test.
I agree that it is an interesting tool. But even if 100% accurate it tells us where she spent MOST of her time. Not where she is missing from. And if less than 100% accurate, I don't feel we can exclude any candidate based on it.

Thoughts?

 

[Roselvr]

Interesting now that they have identified Buckskin Jane Doe. I noticed that her isotope test gave her area as:
Texas and southern Oklahoma (Close)

But she was from Arkansas. And was reported missing from Ohio.

Authorities can point to her being in Louisville, Ky. before she died—and Pittsburgh, Pa., in March 1981, in the month before she was killed.

It makes me wonder how much we should really rely on Shotgun Jane Doe's Isotope test.
I agree that it is an interesting tool. But even if 100% accurate it tells us where she spent MOST of her time. Not where she is missing from. And if less than 100% accurate, I don't feel we can exclude any candidate based on it.

Thoughts?

We don't use the results. We go by everything else. You have no clue how long an MP was living in an area before missing. Not only that, her results have changed.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

I agree totally. Earlier in the thread someone stated that she couldn't be from *advertiser censored* because the isotope test said...

What if she was never missing? What if she was considered a murder victim? I know this would usually also be a missing person. However, if we then hypothesized someone was prosecuted for the murder... maybe never consiidered missing. Here locally a man just got off of death row for a murder he didn't do. Got me thinking.

 

[Roselvr]

Thanks for sending it. I've emailed Colleen to see whats going on. I'm shocked to see the extra $1,000 and would like clarification. Will let everyone know when I hear so please don't start sharing it find out. They're a new organization, I'm sure there is an explanation for it.

I spoke to Colleen and Margaret. They're very new at this. They found themselves hit with a whole bunch of expenses they didn't foresee and have been funding cases with their own money as well as web site costs, CPA and other expenses. I suggested they fund raise at least $2,000 per Doe to give themselves a small cushion in case they need it. Let them settle back into life after the Buckskin Girl presser; they should have a good estimate on what they need to fund raise for each case when they have more time to breathe.

 

[crystal72]

I think the isotope tests

Interesting now that they have identified Buckskin Jane Doe. I noticed that her isotope test gave her area as:
Texas and southern Oklahoma (Close)

But she was from Arkansas. And was reported missing from Ohio.

Authorities can point to her being in Louisville, Ky. before she died—and Pittsburgh, Pa., in March 1981, in the month before she was killed.

It makes me wonder how much we should really rely on Shotgun Jane Doe's Isotope test.
I agree that it is an interesting tool. But even if 100% accurate it tells us where she spent MOST of her time. Not where she is missing from. And if less than 100% accurate, I don't feel we can exclude any candidate based on it.

Thoughts?

I think the isotope tests can be helpful but not relied on 100%. If they don’t think she’s local then it could tell where she had been so they have another place to check or area to target their post & maybe someone will recognize her or possibly they have family in that area. As for buckskin girl being from Arkansas and the testing showing ok/Texas-maybe she hadn’t been home in many years and had been in those areas for a while. Her family hadn’t seen her in quite a while if I remember correctly and besides I’m in ok & can be in Little Rock in 3 hours & the pollen would be very similar as what it is here. The isotope can narrow it down but not get exact locations

 

[Roselvr]

I think the isotope tests

I think the isotope tests can be helpful but not relied on 100%. If they don’t think she’s local then it could tell where she had been so they have another place to check or area to target their post & maybe someone will recognize her or possibly they have family in that area. As for buckskin girl being from Arkansas and the testing showing ok/Texas-maybe she hadn’t been home in many years and had been in those areas for a while. Her family hadn’t seen her in quite a while if I remember correctly and besides I’m in ok & can be in Little Rock in 3 hours & the pollen would be very similar as what it is here. The isotope can narrow it down but not get exact locations

We really don't know about Marcia/ BG's isotope tests because LE have not released any information on where she was living. We now know her jacket was given to her by a cousin yet in the beginning we head they'd never seen it before.

Isotopes are a tool just like pollen tests. Hopefully LE will tell us at some point if isotopes were right. I'd think the would have to be close.

 

[crystal72]

We really don't know about Marcia/ BG's isotope tests because LE have not released any information on where she was living. We now know her jacket was given to her by a cousin yet in the beginning we head they'd never seen it before.

Isotopes are a tool just like pollen tests. Hopefully LE will tell us at some point if isotopes were right. I'd think the would have to be close.

I hadn’t heard about the cousin giving her the jacket. Tbh I’d like to have one myself

 

[Roselvr]

Is anyone in contact with SJD's LE? DNA Doe Project isn't the only one doing doe matching, Parabon added Doe matching May, 2018. - - via Carl K who spoke to Thom of Parabon, he mentioned the St. Louis headless girl and indicated that that would be an ideal case for what they did. He indicated that there are federal grants available for communities, and those with larger populations and crime rates (e.g., St. Louis) have a better chance to get the grants; so there are grants available.

Gonna paste in what I wrote on FB the other morning.. Feel free to share my post in other threads. There are more then enough Does to go around between the 2 companies. It looks like Parabon is doing kids too

Parabon is doing similar to what DNA Doe Project is doing with trying to ID Doe's with "family tree" DNA at GEDmatch. We've seen their name in the press with them identifying killers by using DNA; I wasn't sure if they were going to start Doe matching so I contacted them the other day to ask if they will; they are; it's called Snapshot. The guy Thom that I spoke to was very nice.

I asked if they'd be doing kids; he didn't mention it so it's on my question list; so is the price. I'm sure LE will want to have an idea of price before they even contact them.Does anyone have any more questions that I can ask? I'm putting his contact info below; please pass it to any LE you're in contact with. You can tell Thom you got his info from me, Roselvr

If you have a particular case you think we should be working on, please contact the detective in charge of the case and provide him/her with a link to our website Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs. Simply ask the detective to talk with me about the DNA available in the case so I can assess whether or not Snapshot is even an option for the agency to consider. If you send an email to the detective, feel free to copy me. If you have a conversation via phone, send me a follow up email and give me their contact information. Once you’ve made the introduction, I will contact them to explain the technology and find out if there is sufficient DNA available in the case.

My contact information is in my signature below. The detective may also find the links (below) to our customer testimonial page and social media sites informational, so you may want to point those out as well.

Best,

Thom Shaw

IAI Certified Forensic Artist & Snapshot Case Manager
Parabon NanoLabs
Phone: (703) 689-9689 Ext: 261
E-mail: thom@parabon.com
Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service - Powered by Parabon NanoLabs
Testimonials - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service
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[natureaker]

Looking at the age regression photo of Shotgun Jane Doe, I feel like it almost resembles Rachael Garden of New Hampshire, missing since 1980

Shotgun Doe's NAMUS page

Rachael Garden's NAMUS page

The only things that makes me doubt that Shotgun Doe is Rachael Garden is probably the eye color (Rachael had hazel eyes, JD had brown eyes) and their heights. Rachael was 5'1" in 1980, JD was around 5'5". Maybe she could've grown a bit, but that seems a bit far fetched in my eyes for whatever reason.

 

[C. Walter Brown]

Last missive from the University of Tennessee regarding the medical apparatus on our Jane Doe's leg:

Mr. Brown,
The Regional Forensic Center took possession of the remains earlier this year. We did research the orthopedic appliance when we discovered it back in the ‘80’s, and all it tells is is that it is a four inch plate with 6 screw holes. It is a part number, not a serial number.

Respectfully,
Lee Meadows Jantz, PhD
Associate Director
Forensic Anthropology Center