Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

[Mom24]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

 

[Whiteorchids]

This is an abduction, not a vacation. I'm sure it hasn't been much fun for a while now. Like before they even left.

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Yes, absolutely it's an abduction but she thought she was in love with this guy so I think she went willingly in the beginning without a gun forcing her to leave. Like her family said on FB it was planned. You would know this by comparing the postings dates between the two. Remember she changed status to "wife"

So I think what the poster was implying was hoping her attraction for this kidnapper has worn off by now and she wants to come home being sick and tired being on the run.

 

[gitana1]

It has been posted many, many, MANY times on the last thread and this one by myself, other posters and Mods that LE didn't have that information (WM sighting) until this past Thursday night.

They didn't wait long to release anything. They received the info, verified the info, released the info.

What's interesting to me is that they didn't have the info until Thursday. Why? What stood out to the person reporting that was so significant that they remembered it, a couple weeks later I'm assuming, when they saw reports about this case and put two and two together?

 

[JLSChook]

My apologies for sounding cranky in my last post...It's because I am. :hilarious:

Time for a break.

Find Elizabeth before I get back, would ya? Thanks.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

Your right it's very strange.

 

[Mom24]

Good God thank you!! Sometimes it seems like it's not victim-friendly, child protecting Websleuths anymore on here. Thank you so much for giving some local, legal and sane perspective.



Agreed. And so sad.

In this case I totally believe that she told her sister to look for her if she wasn't home by 6. 100% believe it. At her age and with her mindset due to her childhood experiences, I feel she was pulled into something she didn't understand, didn't appreciate the reality of and didn't truly want.

It reminds me of being 12 and trying to convince a bunch of my friends in the neighborhood to runaway. We were going to steal horses and run through the forest and hitchhike to beaches. I was stupid enough to actually "plan" and even got up at 5:00 am and went to two girls' window and rapped on it trying to get them to run off (they had agreed the day before).

They chickened out and said they couldn't go or they'd get in trouble. It's hard to totally remember that moment but looking back I think in the cold darkness of early morning as reality set in, it was a relief to me.

I kind of see ET as having a similar mindset. I know she's older but she was both sheltered and abused and I think she's probably closer to that mindset. And kids at 15 can have some of that thinking still themselves.


I truly believe this kid was on the one hand flirting with a fantasy that was a fun escape from her situation but that at the very same time, she was unaware of the reality of the situation as she was being dragged into the "fantasy" by an older predator who manipulated her into meeting him to go off, and, she was also scared and uneasy in her gut about the whole thing.


It is possible to feel all those things at once.


Her message to her sibling along with her excitement about her Catholic confirmation that was coming that weekend, which, at the same time she was apparently "planning" with the pervert to take off, she kept calling her brother to make sure her would attend, really indicate she didn't fully understand what was happening and the reality of it.


I think it was hazy in her mind, involved a few hours at a beach or whatever and then coming home to sleep in her bed that night after the "fantasy" played out.


Sadly, the "friend" she went with wasn't a stupid 12 year old rapping at her window in the dark. It was a 50 year old predator.


I'm convinced she is terrified now and desperate to come home.

Along that same line there was a child who had been abducted (Child was 16) by a noncustodial parent. The child was taken through 5 states, stopped at gas stations, ate at diners, etc. Plenty of public areas where the child could have sought help. When she was found the biggest question I had was her mindset and I asked why she didn't ask for help when they stopped in those diners, or gas stations or stores. She shrugged and said she kept thinking school was on Monday, so they'd have to turn around at some point and start heading back. It really shocked me. There was a 5 day vacation from school and she was thinking she was safe because the rules were she had to be in school. Funny how the mind works when people are in dangerous situations. That's why LE keeps saying that ET may not even understand her situation.

 

[Traymar]

Right. And unfortunately I know some adults who don't have the depth or critical thinking skills of many teens. However, I don't really think this is relevant at all.

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Agree, but as you said, some adults don't have that intellectual or psychological depth, so identifying it in a troubled teen might seem like a compliment at first, and maybe further confirmation (or fodder for his sales pitch to her) that they are "made for each other." Damaged people feel different, and the perception that someone - anyone - understands them can be profoundly intoxicating. Imo, he has used this intuitive understanding to manipulate her.

Also agree that their conversations and/or the substance of their talks is largely irrelevant. However, it does help, I think, to realize that this component ("bonding" on a psychological or intellectual level) surely played a part in his grooming of her. And that we shouldn't be too confident of the notion that the plan will unravel simply because each has tired of the other's conversation.

ALL moo, as always.

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[Mom24]

What's interesting to me is that they didn't have the info until Thursday. Why? What stood out to the person reporting that was so significant that they remembered it, a couple weeks later I'm assuming, when they saw reports about this case and put two and two together?

And how long do they keep videos? Was it merely chance that it was found? Someone was looking for something else, maybe a theft had occurred that day and they were reviewing the tapes?

 

[alucardsdream]

Along that same line there was a child who had been abducted (Child was 16) by a noncustodial parent. The child was taken through 5 states, stopped at gas stations, ate at diners, etc. Plenty of public areas where the child could have sought help. When she was found the biggest question I had was her mindset and I asked why she didn't ask for help when they stopped in those diners, or gas stations or stores. She shrugged and said she kept thinking school was on Monday, so they'd have to turn around at some point and start heading back. It really shocked me. There was a 5 day vacation from school and she was thinking she was safe because the rules were she had to be in school. Funny how the mind works when people are in dangerous situations. That's why LE keeps saying that ET may not even understand her situation.

Elizabeth Smart's kidnappers paraded her around in public places and she never tried to get away because she was so afraid of what would happen if she did. We don't know what TC has told ET...he could have her convinced that she'd be in more trouble if she tried to go home now.

 

[DatelineFan]

Yes, absolutely it's an abduction but she thought she was in love with this guy so I think she went willingly in the beginning without a gun forcing her to leave. Like her family said on FB it was planned. You would know this by comparing the postings dates between the two. Remember she changed status to "wife"

So I think what the poster was implying was hoping her attraction for this kidnapper has worn off by now and she wants to come home being sick and tired being on the run.

Right. I've read every post and article (that I know of). I just don't think, based on a few different things, that she was all in. She seemed to be conflicted. And perhaps she was not aware, but it seems clear to me that she was being manipulated and groomed for quite a while before this. I think she probably quickly learned of his dark side as soon as they left. My guess is that they are in a classic abuse cycle (easy to Google). This would explain her appearing to be totally fine with him.

This isn't directed at any specific poster, but it's confusing to me why people pick certain things to believe or theorize, but others they completely dismiss. For example, the swimsuit and posts about tropical getaway destinations. People seem(ed) to think this means they are definitely on a beach somewhere, or swimming. But don't believe he was in the CIA, and other crazy lies. I'm baffled because I don't think he had a close relationship with honesty and integrity.

On another note, I don't understand why anyone thinks he won't be able to be charged with kidnapping. I'm no LEO or attorney or anything, but as far as I know, this is a possible federal case of kidnapping.

Ha, I just ranted a bit. Hopefully this all makes sense!

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[Whiteorchids]

Agree, but as you said, some adults don't have that intellectual or psychological depth, so identifying it in a troubled teen might seem like a compliment at first, and maybe further confirmation (or fodder for his sales pitch to her) that they are "made for each other." Damaged people feel different, and the perception that someone - anyone - understands them can be profoundly intoxicating. Imo, he has used this intuitive understanding to manipulate her.

Also agree that their conversations and/or the substance of their talks is largely irrelevant. However, it does help, I think, to realize that this component ("bonding" on a psychological or intellectual level) surely played a part in his grooming of her. And that we shouldn't be too confident of the notion that the plan will unravel simply because each has tired of the other's conversation.

ALL moo, as always.

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I think at this point the only conversations between them is how they can continue to thwart LE without being caught.

 

[Mom24]

Elizabeth Smart's kidnappers paraded her around in public places and she never tried to get away because she was so afraid of what would happen if she did. We don't know what TC has told ET...he could have her convinced that she'd be in more trouble if she tried to go home now.

He's convinced her he's CIA. He could be telling her he's got powers he doesn't have. He could be telling her she's in danger and only he can protect her now.

 

[Fly3]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

From that Shoney's it's a pretty straight shot to I65.. to get to I40 from there they'd have to head towards north towards Nashville to get to I840/I40.. If I recall they left in the morning? They might hit rush hour traffic going N.. South I believe there is a highway that takes them from AL towards Memphis and I40..

All JMO..

 

[DatelineFan]

BBM.

This exactly! This behavior makes no sense logically to anyone who hasn't been a victim of a master manipulator.

(Also want to chime in on the "thanks" to DatelineFan, what you said is spot-on.)

Thank you! I hope you know I'm not trying to be argumentative or "right". That's not important to me. But my passion comes from experience. I know what I'm talking about based on my own life, those close to me, my education, as well as my professional life. You can take this as opinion since I'm not comfortable sharing more, but I'm not just throwing out random things to argue.

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[gitana1]

NO CONTACT ORDERS can work. Not an opinion. I do know this.

They wont need one, IMO. Those viewing this situation as an incorrigible teen stubbornly intent on being with the man of her dreams are simply not understanding the nuance of abuse, exploitation, dependency and the teenage brain, I think.

 

[Mom24]

From that Shoney's it's a pretty straight shot to I65.. to get to I40 from there they'd have to head towards north towards Nashville to get to I840/I40.. If I recall they left in the morning? They might hit rush hour traffic going N.. South I believe there is a highway that takes them from AL towards Memphis and I40..

All JMO..

Thanks. Are there any sites that maybe she wanted to see in that area? Could there have been something different on that route she wanted to see? Are there more tolls on one route than the other? It does seem they headed to Decatur first and spent some time there if we believe LE's suggestion that they may have stayed in a motel in the area, and the phone ping was at 3pm. Hmmm.....could the help have been someone taking ET's phone to Decatur and letting it ping off a tower 8 hours after she was abducted? Sorry still churning this over. She get's picked up around 8:30am at Shoney's. They head on the open road. An hour and half drive away her phone pings, but it's 8 hours later. Then two days later they're picked up on video in Oklahoma City. So what was going on that it took 8 hours to make an hour and a half long trip and where were they from 4/13 at 3:06pm untl 4/15 when they were spotted in Oklahoma City?

 

[GigTu]

We know they fantasized about tropical locations. Other than a San Diego beach, where on the west coast, in the US, would they find that? How about climate? Where are the beaches warm year around along the Pacific Ocean within the US?

 

[Hatfield]

It has been posted many, many, MANY times on the last thread and this one by myself, other posters and Mods that LE didn't have that information (WM sighting) until this past Thursday night.

They didn't wait long to release anything. They received the info, verified the info, released the info.

My bad then.

Ive been trying to catch up after seeing the news this morning and havent had a chance to read back through previous couple days posts.

I am glad the news is all over it now. This story was on at least four different major networks this morning.

 

[emo99a]

Thanks. Are there any sites that maybe she wanted to see in that area? Could there have been something different on that route she wanted to see? Are there more tolls on one route than the other? It does seem they headed to Decatur first and spent some time there if we believe LE's suggestion that they may have stayed in a motel in the area, and the phone ping was at 3pm. Hmmm.....could the help have been someone taking ET's phone to Decatur and letting it ping off a tower 8 hours after she was abducted? Sorry still churning this over. She get's picked up around 8:30am at Shoney's. They head on the open road. An hour and half drive away her phone pings, but it's 8 hours later. Then two days later they're picked up on video in Oklahoma City. So what was going on that it took 8 hours to make an hour and a half long trip and where were they from 4/13 at 3:06pm untl 4/15 when they were spotted in Oklahoma City?

Greyhound bus or zig-zaging across the country, to confuse people, the amber alert was not across the country in the 1st couple days, so they could go anywhere.

 

[Whiteorchids]

I'm pretty sure she's figured out by now he's no millionaire. Hopefully shes realized he's not CIA that he's not who he claimed to be and is nothing but a fraud and child kidnapper. I can see this creep buying her a new dog to keep her happy.