Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

[Bently]

New images of Tennessee teen allegedly abducted by teacher give hope to girl's family



http://abcnews.go.com/US/surveillan...gedly-abducted-teacher-give/story?id=46512328

This is the first I've heard about the mattress. Can everybody see it above posyer talking about matress?

I think not for many of us.

Fwiw.. I used to put things in the WS quotes box also from mainstream media.

I no longer do that because e.g. your quote from the mainstream media, which you did in WS quote box vs just doing in paren quotes..does not show when I do a response.

Fwiw.. It helps me to put it in "quotes" versus put it in WS quote box quotes which so NOT show on response

:moo:

 

[Lori_belle]

In TN, how long will it take Jill to get a divorce from Tad?

I answered this thoroughly up thread.

Also, re: the federal offenses, inveigling/enticing a person and carrying him or her across state lines is a felony under 18 USC 1201 and punishable by 20 to life. Seems like Mr. CIA we're gonna get married did that.


Further, transporting a minor across state lines for the purpose of committing a sexual offense against the child (such as statutory rape) is a federal felony in violation of the Mann Act, 18 USC 2423. It's also sexual abuse of a minor pursuant to 18 USC 2243. I'm sure there are other applicable crimes. Again, I don't do federal criminal law.

 

[DatelineFan]

Also if you are going to post as a legal expert, maybe you should become a Verified Attorney for WS. :thumb:

If I remember correctly, verified attorneys HAVE posted along with links, more than once, why this is a federal crime. I'm pretty sure one of those posts is earlier in this thread.

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[KaaBoom]

I have been thinking about this. I think its entirely plausible that HE doesnt know there aren't really any warm year around beaches in Cali. When people think of Cali, they think about what they see on TV: beaches, sunshine all year long, bikinis, and girls on rollerblades. While some of that happens, that is not the reality for most living in Cali. Compared to where they are coming from in Tenn, California seems like a dream!

My guess isn't that he is going to California, though. My guess is they have traveled down I-40 from Oklahoma. Maybe gone on to Texas then to New Mexico. You can live on $4500 for awhile in the sticks of Texas and New Mexico. Not so long in California.

I believe they have both lived in Tennessee all their lives. I'm not sure they would consider California to be a dream. Plus California is expensive as hell. His money wouldn't last long in California. My gut feeling is that they doubled back to Tennessee, and are camping someplace. I just can't picture these two getting very far away from the Southeast US. But the Oklahoma sighting does lead to the possibility that they could have continued traveling farther west on I-40.

 

[DatelineFan]

BUT, if they come back to the States, the marriage is not recognized, legally.

If two adults have a destination wedding, I'm pretty sure they also have to get certificates here to make it legal.

Sorry! I meant to quote someone who was talking about getting married in Mexico.

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[DatelineFan]

Maybe to throw off investigators, or maybe they changed their plans and decided to go to a different destination, or maybe they don't have any plans at all, and are just going whichever way the wind blows them.

Just out of curiosity, if this was your daughter, would you ask the DA not to press charges because she's where she wants to be?

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[ijuswannaplay2]

Why would he head to Decatur to get to Okalahoma city? Why go south and then west? Is there some route that makes that desirable? Was it to throw LE off? I mean, by the time they hit OKC, the AA was just being sounded in TN, so he didn't need to bother heading south before heading west, so why?

Sorry but I'm a little behind. If its true about ET telling a friend that plan A was supposedly him having a friend that was going to help them but that fell thru, I guess it's possible that friend may have taken the phones to Decatur turned them on and then ditched them and that was all that friend was willing to do. While he/she is doing that, they are heading straight west?? I dunno.

 

[gitana1]

Maciej Ignaciuk aka Max Kozak was charged with kidnapping and a host of other felonies (11 to be exact) but plead no-contest to two charges of sex with a minor. This was part of a plea deal party driven by the family's desire to not force their daughter to testify in court and part due to wanting to find out his true identity. Some feel the DA made a bad deal, but that doesn't mean it was any less of kidnapping. There are plenty of cases in which people who do not have legal custody of minor being charged with kidnapping. If, as you say, any person is able to live anywhere they want, why was custody given to the father? It's called custody, and as long as someone is under the age of 18 they are under someone's custody unless they are emancipated. Interfering with custody is kidnapping. So examples:
Walter Sawyer: convicted of kidnapping sentenced with 25-50 years
James A Morey - convicted of kidnapping for helping a teen run away from home, sentenced 10 years (he didn't take her out of state)
Johnathan Price- 18 years old, convicted of kidnapping for running away with his 16 year old girlfriend. Sentenced 5 - 7yrs
That's a quick search. Now whether TC would be convicted of the charges of kidnapping, we can debate, we can even debate whether he'd have the charges dropped if he returns her to her family safe and sound, but yes under the law he's committed kidnapping and is likely to be charged. When he crosses state lines, federal charges can be levied. Furthermore, if he used his weapons to control her, the situation under TN statute becomes a felony. I understand what you're saying but things are much different legally before the age of 18.

I don't think you will be able to convince anyone who won't even believe the Tennessee attorney we have on here who explained it all. For others who might not be sure, here's some more info:


Various cases of men convicted of something greater than a minor sexual conduct charge of some sort, with a minor who appeared to have gone with him "willingly":

Nevada - convicted of kidnapping and child *advertiser censored* - faces up to life. 16 year old girl told officers she was with the man willingly. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4370260/Ex-Vegas-teacher-guilty-kidnapping-teen-girl.html

North Carolina - 20 year old man sentenced to 11 years in prison for abduction and statutory rape of his 14 year old "girlfriend". http://www.reflector.com/News/2016/05/19/Young-man-found-guilty-in-lovers-runaway-case.html

Mississippi - man sentenced to 30 years for kidnapping and statutory rape after his victim ran away to his home. http://www.wdam.com/story/33003862/verdict-reached-in-jones-county-kidnapping-and-rape-trial

Texas - federal enticement of a minor )a federal kidnapping charge) and aiding and abetting after he engaged in a sexual "relationship" with a 13 year old, (their words, not mine) and then picked her up and another 13 year old to have sex with him. http://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...ens-taking-them-to-ft-worth-for-sex/596239707

Florida - statutory rape - sentenced to 5 - 15 years in prison. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...ve-sex-until-marriage/f950mkViWEYQJ3N0fi00pK/

Georgia - statutory rape - sentenced to 8 and 15 years (two different men) in prison. https://patch.com/georgia/atlanta/c...ced-statutory-rape-involving-13-year-old-girl

New York - statutory rape - sentenced to 184 years. Man had been grooming kid for years beginning at age 13. http://brooklynda.org/2015/09/10/brooklyn-man-sentenced-to-184-years-in-prison-for-statutory-rape/


So besides federal and state kidnapping charges, or harboring a runaway, etc., this man could be charged with statutory rape of ET under all of the following:

Statutory rape is a class E felony in TN - 1- 6 years in prison.
Aggravated statutory rape is a class D felony in TN - 2-12 years in prison.
Statutory rape by an authority figure is a class C felony in TN - 3-15 years in prison and not eligible for diversion or probation.
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/tennessee-law/tennessee-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html
http://www.socratek.com/StateLaws.aspx?id=608754&title=39-13-506 Statutory Rape
http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-13/part-5/39-13-532

If he does not release her, he is looking at serious time, IMO.

 

[LaneGirl]

BUT, if they come back to the States, the marriage is not recognized, legally.

If two adults have a destination wedding, I'm pretty sure they also have to get certificates here to make it legal.

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My family members marriage was recognized as legal by the state of CA, his family looked into it.

Let me be clear on a couple of points though... he was 17 she was 19 or 20 I'm not positive this is a distant cousin and there was nothing to register in CA. My understanding was they provided their Mexican marriage license to attorneys who verified it as legit for his family. And again this was in the 90's.

 

[puzzleme]

My gut feeling also! They could easily hide in Florida since spring break is in full force then head back to Tennessee and hide in the Mountains. IMHO

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[Ontario Mom]

“He was certainly putting a lot of planning into disappearing,” Brent Cooper, the district attorney for Maury County, Tennessee, told ABC News earlier this week. “He searched what size mattress will fit in the back of a Nissan Rogue.” http://abcnews.go.com/US/surveillan...gedly-abducted-teacher-give/story?id=46512328

First time I'm reading this - unless I missed it.

Also, as to the different religious faiths of ET and TC, both profess to be Christians just different denominations. There are many more similarities between Roman Catholicism and Nazarene, than differences. Not that it really matters much anyway, since TC has violated so many commands of the Bible it's sort of pointless to even assume he's an actual Christian.

 

[gitana1]

I answered this thoroughly up thread.

Also, re: the federal offenses, inveigling/enticing a person and carrying him or her across state lines is a felony under 18 USC 1201 and punishable by 20 to life. Seems like Mr. CIA we're gonna get married did that.


Further, transporting a minor across state lines for the purpose of committing a sexual offense against the child (such as statutory rape) is a federal felony in violation of the Mann Act, 18 USC 2423. It's also sexual abuse of a minor pursuant to 18 USC 2243. I'm sure there are other applicable crimes. Again, I don't do federal criminal law.

Right. I cited to all of that a couple times, some threads back. I can do it again, but I think we are yelling in the wind. And he doesn't have to actually assault her in order to be convicted. He just has to have had the intent.

 

[gitana1]

“He was certainly putting a lot of planning into disappearing,” Brent Cooper, the district attorney for Maury County, Tennessee, told ABC News earlier this week. “He searched what size mattress will fit in the back of a Nissan Rogue.” http://abcnews.go.com/US/surveillan...gedly-abducted-teacher-give/story?id=46512328

First time I'm reading this - unless I missed it.

Also, as to the different religious faiths of ET and TC, both profess to be Christians just different denominations. There are many more similarities between Roman Catholicism and Nazarene, than differences. Not that it really matters much anyway, since TC has violated so many commands of the Bible it's sort of pointless to even assume he's an actual Christian.

Ewwww! That's it. Enough for me for awhile! Off to be with neglected family and to take care of neglected projects.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes. It was discussed at great length. I am with the poster peep who suggests it is an illusion created by the logo, lighting and wall. Words to that effect.

I am that poster peep, and I totally agree with myself 100 %. :wink:

 

[DatelineFan]

My family members marriage was recognized as legal by the state of CA, his family looked into it.

Let me be clear on a couple of points though... he was 17 she was 19 or 20 I'm not positive this is a distant cousin and there was nothing to register in CA. My understanding was they provided their Mexican marriage license to attorneys who verified it as legit for his family. And again this was in the 90's.

From friends of mine who recently married abroad, they had to get a marriage license here, too. I could be using incorrect terminology, as I've never been married, so I'm not certain of the exact paperwork. Anyway, I don't think this is going to happen, so...

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[Mom24]

I answered this thoroughly up thread.

Also, re: the federal offenses, inveigling/enticing a person and carrying him or her across state lines is a felony under 18 USC 1201 and punishable by 20 to life. Seems like Mr. CIA we're gonna get married did that.


Further, transporting a minor across state lines for the purpose of committing a sexual offense against the child (such as statutory rape) is a federal felony in violation of the Mann Act, 18 USC 2423. It's also sexual abuse of a minor pursuant to 18 USC 2243. I'm sure there are other applicable crimes. Again, I don't do federal criminal law.

Don't forget, he used a computer to coerce her and plan the abduction. But federally we have:
Flight to avoid prosecution
Kidnapping
Aggravated Sexual Assault
Sexual Exploitation
and the possibility of a couple more depending on how long he keeps her and the use of weapons. My guess is they'll take into consideration his lack of criminal record and if he returns her safely asap, they'll be more likely to drop those charges. But every day he holds on to her, the more likely it becomes that he'll be charged more severely. It's one thing to make a momentary bad decision and attempt to correct it, another to continue with that bad decision while a child's welfare is at stake.
The school, since it accepts federal funding under Title IX can also face severe federal charges if the family wishes to pursue it. If the school administrators are charged with federal charges, they will not be allowed to avail themselves of the school's legal aid. They will have to pay for their own legal defense and can have their own assets attached to any judgement. Not to mention, federal lawsuits are costly to defend. Given that school failed to report the sexual abuse to her father, it's not looking good for them.

 

[GigTu]

My family members marriage was recognized as legal by the state of CA, his family looked into it.

Let me be clear on a couple of points though... he was 17 she was 19 or 20 I'm not positive this is a distant cousin and there was nothing to register in CA. My understanding was they provided their Mexican marriage license to attorneys who verified it as legit for his family. And again this was in the 90's.

He (TC) would have to wait and make sure the marriage date was AFTER his American divorce, right?

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[LaneGirl]

From friends I'd mine who recently married abroad, they had to get a marriage license here, too. I could be using incorrect terminology, as I've never been married, so I'm not certain of the exact paperwork. Anyway, I don't think this is going to happen, so...

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Agree and there was no manhunt nor the huge age difference with my family member. His parents did call the police but because of the small age difference between the two and his age (17) he was classified as a runaway. After they showed up with a marriage license his parents looked into the legality and it was legit. Perhaps there was a filing of some sort but from stories they told me just gave their marriage certificate to attorneys, perhaps the attorneys filed the necessary paperwork to register it with CA.

At any rate a totally different situation but I did want to point out my cousins situation because it was relevant...somewhat.

 

[LaneGirl]

He (TC) would have to wait and make sure the marriage date was AFTER his American divorce, right?

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For the US to recognize it yes I'm pretty sure as we have laws that prevent polygamy.

 

[cady]

Right. I cited to all of that a couple times, some threads back. I can do it again, but I think we are yelling in the wind. And he doesn't have to actually assault her in order to be convicted. He just has to have had the intent.

Thanks. I believe the question was how long would it take for Jill's divorce to be finalized.....at least, that is the question that I was addressing. She doesn't have to divorce his arse at all, if she doesn't want to, but clearly she DOES want to because she has filed. Since he is not locatable to respond, I'm wondering how long she has to wait for a judgment.?????? JMO