Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #2

[CabinFever]

Did ET take any luggage with her? Could she have thought she and TC were running away to get married, and then returning by dinner time. Is that what TC led her to believe? Maybe she was also expecting a honeymoon, thus the tropical pics on IG, sometime in the future.

I wish I could find where I read it. She took "a bag with all of her stuff". The friend knew she was leaving.

 

[alucardsdream]

I wish I could find where I read it. She took "a bag with all of her stuff". The friend knew she was leaving.

She's definitely carrying an armload of stuff in the surveillance picture TBI released, but I'm not sure if they said whether the picture was from the morning she went missing or not. She's definitely wearing the same clothes that she was seen in last, so I'm guessing it could be from the parking lot at Shoney's? It's hard to make out if she has a bag or not, but she definitely doesn't have a large suitcase or anything.

 

[jnblsm]

Ready to be ostracized, but I still wonder if maybe TC honestly thought he was indeed helping her get rid of the madness she portrayed as her real life.
I'M NOT SIDING WITH HIM AT ALL BECAUSE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER ADULT!
BUT, what if he TRULY thought he was helping her? Perhaps he was driven by the need to protect an innocent child against what she was having to deal with because she harbored so much craziness in her heart and he felt sorry for her? Maybe he really thought/thinks that he is "doing the right thing" by her, and is feeling so compelled to help because he worries about her and thinks he's the ONLY person who can keep her safe?
I'll be the 1st to admit I'm wrong, but I think we should explore WHY he made her comfortable enough to leave with him, and not be found. Is there ANY chance that he HONESTLY felt that he was doing the right thing? Risking humiliation from the majority because he had no option but to believe he was helping her?

Had to just ask. I don't really think that, but just trying to look at an alternative scenario.

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[gitana1]

I don't understand this either. It doesn't make any sense unless she wanted to fool people into thinking she was kidnapped by someone other than TC. I'm baffled by it.

I'm worried that it will be a long time before they find them just like Elizabeth Smart. He's probably shaved his beard, ditched the glasses, dyed their hair, wear hats etc. Many folks don't watch the news. I think they are headed to another country to start a new life like Mexico. Old men with young girls there won't get a second look. He doesn't have a job so being a fugitive on the run is no big deal to him. I think it will be up to ET to finally make her escape to get away from him once she tires of him.

Mexico isn't Yemen. 50 year old men in relationships with 15 year old girls is about as common there as it is here. They will stand out there. Even more so as she is a "guera". A light skinned girl like that with a middle-aged man will stand out like a sore thumb.

Ready to be ostracized, but I still wonder if maybe TC honestly thought he was indeed helping her get rid of the madness she portrayed as her real life.
I'M NOT SIDING WITH HIM AT ALL BECAUSE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER ADULT!
BUT, what if he TRULY thought he was helping her? Perhaps he was driven by the need to protect an innocent child against what she was having to deal with because she harbored so much craziness in her heart and he felt sorry for her? Maybe he really thought/thinks that he is "doing the right thing" by her, and is feeling so compelled to help because he worries about her and thinks he's the ONLY person who can keep her safe?
I'll be the 1st to admit I'm wrong, but I think we should explore WHY he made her comfortable enough to leave with him, and not be found. Is there ANY chance that he HONESTLY felt that he was doing the right thing? Risking humiliation from the majority because he had no option but to believe he was helping her?

Had to just ask. I don't really think that, but just trying to look at an alternative scenario.

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Anyone who thinks you "help" a troubled 15 year old by kidnapping them, making out with them and committing statutory rape is a deranged criminal who belongs behind bars. He's a sex predator. Nothing more. He betrayed this child's trust and took advantage of her innocence and dysfunction. No other choice but to rape a 15 year old? Because that's what it is when a fully grown, 50 year old man lures a 15 year old child into having sex with him. He made her "comfortable" enough to leave with him because he is a predator. That's what they're good at. I don't know how taking a child across state lines and committing sex acts on her, which we know is occurring, is keeping her safe. Among the dozens of options he had to actually help this little girl, statutory rape was not one of them.

 

[jnblsm]

Do we REALLY know, KNOW honestly that he's RAPED her?
Again, just playing Devil's Advocate.
(I'm still on the side of believing that he manipulated her into going with him, but we honestly only have proof of a peck on the lips.)
I'm 100% sure that he took advantage of her "home wrecked" situation. I hate him for that.
Just throwing out another talking point.
Again, fully expect to be the victim of hatred. I'm okay with that. Just wanted us to explore a different angle.
Some have asked if there's sure proof they are together.
I'm just offering another opinion. Not necessarily what I think though!

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[jnblsm]

What if, just by chance, that TC knew the only way he could save her was to put his life at risk, knowing ppl would think the very worst of him, but did it anyway?

Honestly, I don't think that's the case, but again, just trying to understand why a grown man would feel compelled to risk everything, EVERYTHING, just to help a young, innocent girl who had nothing but horrible adult influences in her life.
My point is, I certainly don't know.

I don't doubt for a second that he isn't an awful pervert!

Just trying to open up a different line of conversation between us.

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[kelsie]

jnblsm, I can respect that you're trying to bring a different POV to the table, but it's just not reality. This older teacher was spotted kissing this young girl. They appear to have sent "secret" Instagram messages to eachother through hashtags. He kidnapped her, took her away from her father and siblings, and he left his own wife, children, and grandchildren. Something is very wrong with this man. Entertaining a different POV is just not possible for me at this point, though I do appreciate you trying to bring that to a discussion. Just won't work in this specific discussion.

 

[alucardsdream]

What if, just by chance, that TC knew the only way he could save her was to put his life at risk, knowing ppl would think the very worst of him, but did it anyway?

Honestly, I don't think that's the case, but again, just trying to understand why a grown man would feel compelled to risk everything, EVERYTHING, just to help a young, innocent girl who had nothing but horrible adult influences in her life.
My point is, I certainly don't know.

I don't doubt for a second that he isn't an awful pervert!

Just trying to open up a different line of conversation between us.

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If he hadn't been caught kissing her at school, and if his Instagram account wasn't such a blatant tool of manipulation, and if he hadn't completely ruined the lives of his wife, his kids, and his grandchildren by running off with a teenager, a teenager who believes that he's honestly a retired FBI agent who wants to marry her...actually, even then I don't think I can come up with a scenario where his motivation was pure. Both he and his wife attended church with ET, if he had really been concerned about saving her he should have found her a nice, female mentor at the church who could have helped her out.

 

[Hatfield]

BBM

I missed this, I'm at work and scanning so it's no surprise. But what teddy bear? And where did you see him carrying items out? Thanks!

Just getting back and catching up. I see a couple people asked about that picture where I think I see someone carrying out a Teddy Bear.

This is just a guess as to what I think it is on top of the stuff she is carrying out. Its the third picture down.

I just realized it is a picture of Elizabeth and not Tad so it makes more sense that it could be a teddy bear she wanted to take with her.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3139214/tad-cummins-elizabeth-thomas-alleged-kidnap/

 

[alucardsdream]

Just getting back and catching up. I see a couple people asked about that picture where I think I see someone carrying out a Teddy Bear.

This is just a guess as to what I think it is on top of the stuff she is carrying out. Its the third picture down.

I just realized it is a picture of Elizabeth and not Tad so it makes more sense that it could be a teddy bear she wanted to take with her.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3139214/tad-cummins-elizabeth-thomas-alleged-kidnap/

You all must have better eyes than I do because I can't make out anything she's carrying. :shame:

 

[jnblsm]

I completely agree that he took advantage of her!
I want them found and for her to be okay!
Anyone who knows me on WS in other case understands that I always try to have us look at a possible different opinion.
I DON'T FOR ONE SECOND THINK TC ISN'T A HORRIBLE, KIDNAPPER WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS POOR TEENAGER
Just asking for us to question WHY he felt he needed to do so.
We don't have ANY proof of molestation/intercourse at this point though. (I don't doubt it has happened, as we all suspect though. But that's only us, and most of the world, SPECULATING.)
We shouldn't do that.
That's all I'm saying.
Not until we have facts.
Until we do, and we probably will, we should explore every possible angle about what happened and what's going on.
jmo moo

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[Hatfield]

You all must have better eyes than I do because I can't make out anything she's carrying. :shame:

Its hard to make out since the picture is so blurry.

If you dont try to focus too much and take a step back and just glance at it and look right on top of the pile there is a small object close to her body. Its to the left of the black object and it looks to have two legs at the bottom and I think its just a teddy bear looking right at us with its head at the top and feet at bottom.

Then again it could be part of her jacket too. Its hard to make out.

 

[alucardsdream]

I completely agree that he took advantage of her!
I want them found and for her to be okay!
Anyone who knows me on WS in other case understands that I always try to have us look at a possible different opinion.
I DON'T FOR ONE SECOND THINK TC ISN'T A HORRIBLE, KIDNAPPER WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS POOR TEENAGER
Just asking for us to question WHY he felt he needed to do so.
We don't have ANY proof of molestation/intercourse at this point though. (I don't doubt it has happened, as we all suspect though. But that's only us, and most of the world, SPECULATING.)
We shouldn't do that.
That's all I'm saying.
Not until we have facts.
Until we do, and we probably will, we should explore every possible angle about what happened and what's going on.
jmo moo

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I agree that it's always important to look at a case from all sides and I definitely wasn't trying to imply that I thought you were supporting TC. I'm a lawyer and I can usually argue a case from both sides, but I don't know that I would be able to come up with anything in TC's defense. His best bet will be to just plead guilty!

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Re: the comments from Elizabeth's brother in which he says Elizabeth told her sibling to call the police if she wasn't home by 6pm. Is it possible that the police comment was a fib made up by her brother in a wishful thinking / denial kind of way to deflect any "responsibility" from Elizabeth? It just seems an odd comment considering what seems like mutual advance plans to leave together.

This is really of no consequence, it's just bugged me since I first read the brother's comments.

I think it is possible she was conflicted too. I think it is possible that when she was with TC, and he's talking this big talk about running away to exotic beaches, maybe a part of her wanted that adventure. But then, when she was with her brother, maybe she realized what leaving her family would really mean. Maybe she told him that because she knew she'd end up giving in and going along with him because of the hold he has over her, but she still wanted to be rescued. Maybe she figured if she was rescued, TC couldn't hold it against her that she wasn't going off with him.

 

[Hatfield]

I completely agree that he took advantage of her!
I want them found and for her to be okay!
Anyone who knows me on WS in other case understands that I always try to have us look at a possible different opinion.
I DON'T FOR ONE SECOND THINK TC ISN'T A HORRIBLE, KIDNAPPER WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS POOR TEENAGER
Just asking for us to question WHY he felt he needed to do so.
We don't have ANY proof of molestation/intercourse at this point though. (I don't doubt it has happened, as we all suspect though. But that's only us, and most of the world, SPECULATING.)
We shouldn't do that.
That's all I'm saying.
Not until we have facts.
Until we do, and we probably will, we should explore every possible angle about what happened and what's going on.
jmo moo

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

There evidently was a witness to him kissing her on the lips at school which was reported to school officials.

"About two months ago, Thomas and Cummins were caught kissing in his classroom at Culleoka Unit School"

"After another student saw and reported what was described as a "peck" on the lips"

http://www.al.com/news/huntsville/index.ssf/2017/03/amber_alert_elizabeth_thomas_t.html

JMO
Thats enough to suspect things have went much further than that off school grounds since he took her and ran off with her now.

 

[alucardsdream]

I think it is possible she was conflicted too. I think it is possible that when she was with TC, and he's talking this big talk about running away to exotic beaches, maybe a part of her wanted that adventure. But then, when she was with her brother, maybe she realized what leaving her family would really mean. Maybe she told him that because she knew she'd end up giving in and going along with him because of the hold he has over her, but she still wanted to be rescued. Maybe she figured if she was rescued, TC couldn't hold it against her that she wasn't going off with him.

I was kind of wondering about TBI's statement that "investigative efforts placed Thomas in the area of Decatur, Alabama" last Monday...I'm guess it was probably from a cell phone ping? Is it possible that she used the phone to try to text someone for help? I know it's a long shot, but TBI might not be publicly saying it was her if they're afraid that TC might get violent with her if he found out.

Link: https://tbinewsroom.com/2017/03/18/amber-alert-update-3-elizabeth-thomas/

 

[Hatfield]

Mexico isn't Yemen. 50 year old men in relationships with 15 year old girls is about as common there as it is here. They will stand out there. Even more so as she is a "guera". A light skinned girl like that with a middle-aged man will stand out like a sore thumb.



Anyone who thinks you "help" a troubled 15 year old by kidnapping them, making out with them and committing statutory rape is a deranged criminal who belongs behind bars. He's a sex predator. Nothing more. He betrayed this child's trust and took advantage of her innocence and dysfunction. No other choice but to rape a 15 year old? Because that's what it is when a fully grown, 50 year old man lures a 15 year old child into having sex with him. He made her "comfortable" enough to leave with him because he is a predator. That's what they're good at. I don't know how taking a child across state lines and committing sex acts on her, which we know is occurring, is keeping her safe. Among the dozens of options he had to actually help this little girl, statutory rape was not one of them.

Exactly.

And on top of that he dumped his wife for HER.

That screams to a sexual motive.

If he was only interested in helping the child he would have stayed with his wife and helped her from his home base with wifes support.

 

[bluesneakers]

Ready to be ostracized, but I still wonder if maybe TC honestly thought he was indeed helping her get rid of the madness she portrayed as her real life.
I'M NOT SIDING WITH HIM AT ALL BECAUSE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER ADULT!
BUT, what if he TRULY thought he was helping her? Perhaps he was driven by the need to protect an innocent child against what she was having to deal with because she harbored so much craziness in her heart and he felt sorry for her? Maybe he really thought/thinks that he is "doing the right thing" by her, and is feeling so compelled to help because he worries about her and thinks he's the ONLY person who can keep her safe?
I'll be the 1st to admit I'm wrong, but I think we should explore WHY he made her comfortable enough to leave with him, and not be found. Is there ANY chance that he HONESTLY felt that he was doing the right thing? Risking humiliation from the majority because he had no option but to believe he was helping her?

Had to just ask. I don't really think that, but just trying to look at an alternative scenario.

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What an ego to think he's the only person who can help her and he does so by communicating inappropriately through Instagram, ignoring orders from the school and then kidnapping her. He took her away from everything and everyone she knows. Surely if he wanted to help her he could have found other ways. Isolating her (armed the whole time!) is selfish. A life on the run, however long it lasts, is not healthy for a girl who is still developing her own identity. She's either looking over her shoulder scared about what's coming or she's so enamored with him she thinks he is the answer. He's not. He will only continue to manipulate her and mess with her head. Who knows how she'll react when they're caught? Who thinks this is what's best for a 15yo girl?

There are other options but I doubt he investigated or tried any other way. I think he's caught up in some ridiculous fantasy and hasn't thought it through. What's his plan for if or when they get caught? He won't be able to protect if he's in jail.

If he honestly believes he's the only one who can help her he's deluded, selfish, childish and has some sort of savior complex.

And he's hurting his wife and children. Who's helping them while he's off in this adventure? Did he not think about that?

I'm afraid when he crashes back to Earth he will attempt suicide.

 

[alucardsdream]

Exactly.

And on top of that he dumped his wife for HER.

That screams to a sexual motive.

If he was only interested in helping the child he would have stayed with his wife and helped her from his home base with wifes support.

His poor wife, I feel so incredibly bad for her. She and TC aren't that much younger than my parents, and I was trying to imagine what I would do in a situation like that. She must be devastated and it made me tear up listening to her plead for him to turn himself in. His kids must be ready to kill him.

 

[bluesneakers]

I completely agree that he took advantage of her!
I want them found and for her to be okay!
Anyone who knows me on WS in other case understands that I always try to have us look at a possible different opinion.
I DON'T FOR ONE SECOND THINK TC ISN'T A HORRIBLE, KIDNAPPER WHO TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THIS POOR TEENAGER

Just asking for us to question WHY he felt he needed to do so.

We don't have ANY proof of molestation/intercourse at this point though. (I don't doubt it has happened, as we all suspect though. But that's only us, and most of the world, SPECULATING.)
We shouldn't do that.
That's all I'm saying.
Not until we have facts.
Until we do, and we probably will, we should explore every possible angle about what happened and what's going on.
jmo moo

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Bbm

Why did Warren Jeffs do what he did? I don't know if there's an easy answer.