TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[WingsOverTX]

Sure, if they want to, that is.
But sadly they won’t find the real answer to “why”. They will be reading non-rational musings from a mentally ill person. IMHO I rely on experts to interpret their ramblings and summarize any info that is actually helpful. We can’t logically understand a person who is not thinking logically.

Respectfully, none of us knows. And those who have seen it have their own biases that they may not even be aware of!

We can't evaluate it without having access to it. Any time a criminal leaves any kind of evidence - even crazy ramblings - the public has a right to access & make an individual determination as to whether to look at it & study it or not. These crimes are against society at-large though the victim circle may be seen as smaller. We all have a vested interest in WHY?!

The criminal intimidates by creating fear. Only the truth - no matter how non-rational - can potentially reduce fear.

Knowledge is power. Ignorance is not bliss.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The families could also read the writings privately if they so wish and are granted access, it does not necessitate that the information also needs to be shared publicly.

I agree and think LE will let the families know if they are going to release it publicly.

 

[PrairieWind]

The "manifesto is in the hands of municipal, state and federal le. Do they have the right to withhold it from the public?

 

[housewife]

The "manifesto is in the hands of municipal, state and federal le. Do they have the right to withhold it from the public?

Good question. Only last month they released more documents from a 2017 shooting in Vegas:

In a statement Thursday, Las Vegas police defended their inconclusive findings and dismissed the importance of the documents released this week in response to an open-records request from the Wall Street Journal.
“We were unable to determine a motive for the shooter,” the statement said. “Speculating on a motive causes more harm to the hundreds of people who were victims that night.”

 

[Sundog]

Sure, if they want to, that is.
But sadly they won’t find the real answer to “why”. They will be reading non-rational musings from a mentally ill person. IMHO I rely on experts to interpret their ramblings and summarize any info that is actually helpful. We can’t logically understand a person who is not thinking logically.

If I was the victim in a case like this, I would definitely not rely on "experts" to provide me with second hand information, I would want to see it myself and make my own judgements.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I will just say this for what it’s worth, which is probably not much. Don’t think too poorly of me.

First, there are real victims here. The one’s who have had to face this tragedy face to face and are having to bear this burden every minute every day. Nothing will make this better for them. Why it was done, was it a man, a woman, transgender, with a rifle, a handgun, a bomb, a knife. I doubt it matters to them. A complete stranger, they had never harmed, killed their family members, their children. My prayers each day are for them.
This crime, though, was not just against the folks at the school that day. This crime was not a one on one killing, robbery etc. This crime was perpetrated against all of us in this country. We are all secondary victims here.
Just by the fact that we know the shooter had a manifesto, that she planned it meticulously. She used just the weapons she wanted. Just the fact that she went to one school but changed her mind, shows she wasn’t targeting the Covenant school, she was targeting US! The school just was unfortunately where the shooter ended up.
I want to know what this madwoman was thinking, why she was so angry at the world, at Nashville, at me, at you that she would seek us out to destroy us. And make no mistake, it could have just as easily been me or you or our loved ones. I want to decide whether she is mentally ill, just flat out mean, <modsnip>
The shooter attacked me and mine, and you and yours, and I deserve to read it all if I want to, if for no other reason than to try and protect myself next time.

 

[waldojabba]

Respectfully, none of us knows. And those who have seen it have their own biases that they may not even be aware of!

We can't evaluate it without having access to it. Any time a criminal leaves any kind of evidence - even crazy ramblings - the public has a right to access & make an individual determination as to whether to look at it & study it or not. These crimes are against society at-large though the victim circle may be seen as smaller. We all have a vested interest in WHY?!

The criminal intimidates by creating fear. Only the truth - no matter how non-rational - can potentially reduce fear.

Knowledge is power. Ignorance is not bliss.

JMO

I could not agree with you more @WingsOverTX
Always Shine a Light in the Dark Corners
Imo

 

[MyBelle]

The "manifesto is in the hands of municipal, state and federal le. Do they have the right to withhold it from the public?

They might release some of it but there are exceptions under the FOIA such as to protect medical information privacy, the safety of individuals if they are named, etc.

JMO

 

[mooseandcoffee]

In the general public, however, the Rasmussen poll shows that 68% of Americans surveyed want the manifesto released, so those who want to cover up the manifesto are in the minority.

"cover up" seems like a strong word.

 

[shotgun09]

I could not agree with you more @WingsOverTX
Always Shine a Light in the Dark Corners
Imo

Add to that sentiment, " Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant "
Release the Manifesto!

 

[MyBelle]

Sheriff Hall concedes there may be some details that simply are not appropriate to release. But beyond that investigators should be as transparent as possible about what led to a shooting that claimed six lives.

Metro police told NewsChannel 5 that the investigation into the Covenant shooting remains open, reviewing a significant amount of written material. They have not said if the writings will or will not be released. And there is no timetable for when that decision will be made.

Davidson County Sheriff wants The Covenant School shooter's manifesto released. Here's why.

The killer is dead, too. But what about motive? That's a question that could be answered for the public by the release of the so-called manifesto.

www.newschannel5.com

 

[housewife]

"cover up" seems like a strong word.

I agree, I am on the side of law enforcement and don’t appreciate the accusation. There is no proof of a nefarious “cover up”.

<modsnip - off topic>

Also looking forward to the FOIA requests, keep us posted when you file them, sleuthers!

There have been twenty-eight (28) more children killed by guns since March 27th.

Edit: typo

 

[Ontario Mom]

They might release some of it but there are exceptions under the FOIA such as to protect medical information privacy, the safety of individuals if they are named, etc.

JMO

I would agree with keeping that out of the public access, 100%.
The rest of it should be released.

 

[Imvp2]

W

I've not seen one victim's family say publicly they want to know the mental health ramblings of the person who killed their loved one.

What do you mean by "mental health ramblings" ?

 

[Cryptic]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

the disgusting "Banality / ordinariness of evil" that is common with rampage shootings:

- Individual concluded that his life was no longer worth living. Why? Because he could no longer maintain his status as a junior "whale" at second tier casinos. He would then lose the "exhaltation" that the status provided. He then decides to commit mass murder in one final attention getting act.

<The> suggestion that the Nashville shooter is going to follow a similar "Banality of Evil" pattern could well be right:

- No indications of socio political motives in available social media. School was one of several possible "shock value" targets selected. Even trans status may of been selected for shock value. She / he evidently never even bothered correcting people who continued to use feminine pro nouns following the stated gender change.

Instead, the rampage could well be another disgusting example of the "Banality of evil":

- Adult whose educational choice did not "pan out" is still living at home holding a low status job- with little prospect of advancement in sight. Relationship with parents is strained. Ability to continue living at their home may have been gradually ending.

- Lacking success, the adult then makes a decision to destroy the success of others via mass murder of their children.

 

[Sundog]

I think you have a very deep point.

As you stated: The claimed right wing political motivations ended up being non existent in Las Vegas. Instead there was just the disgusting "Banality / ordinariness of evil" that is very common with rampage shootings:

- Individual concluded that his life was no longer worth living. Why? Because he could no longer maintain his status as a junior "whale" at second tier casinos. He would then lose the "exhaltation" that the status provided. He then decides to commit mass murder in one final attention getting act.

Your suggestion that the Nashville shooter is going to follow a similar "Banality of Evil" pattern could well be right:

- No indications of socio political motives in available social media. School was one of several possible "shock value" targets selected. Even trans status may of been selected for shock value. She / he evidently never even bothered correcting people who continued to use feminine pro nouns following transformation.

Instead, the rampage could well be another disgusting example of the "Banality of evil":

- Adult whose educational choice did not "pan out" is still living at home holding a low status job- with little prospect of advancement in sight. Relationship with parents is strained.

- Lacking success, the adult then makes a decision to destroy the success of others via mass murder of their children.

Maybe. Or maybe not. That's why we need to see the manifesto/writings. Otherwise all we have is conjecture.

 

[Cryptic]

Maybe. Or maybe not. That's why we need to see the manifesto/writings. Otherwise all we have is conjecture.

I agree.

In todays political climate, transparency is the best medicine. No double standards as to which rampager's manifestos are deemed to be "relevant" and which ones are not.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Sheriff Hall concedes there may be some details that simply are not appropriate to release. But beyond that investigators should be as transparent as possible about what led to a shooting that claimed six lives.

Metro police told NewsChannel 5 that the investigation into the Covenant shooting remains open, reviewing a significant amount of written material. They have not said if the writings will or will not be released. And there is no timetable for when that decision will be made.

Davidson County Sheriff wants The Covenant School shooter's manifesto released. Here's why.

The killer is dead, too. But what about motive? That's a question that could be answered for the public by the release of the so-called manifesto.

www.newschannel5.com

Also in the article:

The contents remain a mystery though TBI Director David Rausch did share some details at a recent sheriffs' association meeting:

• That the killer did not write of specific political, religious or social issues.
• And the primary focus in the writings was idolizing those who had committed prior school shootings

Yet it seems that some people are expecting there to be some kind of political motive to the shooting, when it looks like many other school shootings, where the shooter is severely disaffected and socially disconnected, and who comes to find kinship with previous school shooters and wanting to emulate them, ever since Columbine.

I have never seen such a clamor to see the writings of a mass shooter before. I hope it's not because anybody is hoping to use it to condemn all trans people because of what this one trans person did (allegedly trans, because I don't think we even know how much the shooter was committed to a trans identity).

 

[MyBelle]

Also in the article:

The contents remain a mystery though TBI Director David Rausch did share some details at a recent sheriffs' association meeting:

• That the killer did not write of specific political, religious or social issues.
• And the primary focus in the writings was idolizing those who had committed prior school shootings

Yet it seems that some people are expecting there to be some kind of political motive to the shooting, when it looks like many other school shootings, where the shooter is severely disaffected and socially disconnected, and who comes to find kinship with previous school shooters and wanting to emulate them, ever since Columbine.

I have never seen such a clamor to see the writings of a mass shooter before. I hope it's not because anybody is hoping to use it to condemn all trans people because of what this one trans person did (allegedly trans, because I don't think we even know how much the shooter was committed to a trans identity).

BBM. That seems to be what is going on in a nation that is supposed to embrace diversity and equality of all. What I also find interesting is that LE says the investigation is still open.

The Metro Nashville Police Department previously denied The Tennessean's request for the files, citing an open investigation, despite the shooter's death and lack of a pending court case.

MSN

 

[housewife]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

the disgusting "Banality / ordinariness of evil" that is common with rampage shootings:

- Individual concluded that his life was no longer worth living. Why? Because he could no longer maintain his status as a junior "whale" at second tier casinos. He would then lose the "exhaltation" that the status provided. He then decides to commit mass murder in one final attention getting act.

<The> suggestion that the Nashville shooter is going to follow a similar "Banality of Evil" pattern could well be right:

- No indications of socio political motives in available social media. School was one of several possible "shock value" targets selected. Even trans status may of been selected for shock value. She / he evidently never even bothered correcting people who continued to use feminine pro nouns following the stated gender change.

Instead, the rampage could well be another disgusting example of the "Banality of evil":

- Adult whose educational choice did not "pan out" is still living at home holding a low status job- with little prospect of advancement in sight. Relationship with parents is strained. Ability to continue living at their home may have been gradually ending.

- Lacking success, the adult then makes a decision to destroy the success of others via mass murder of their children.

I was trying to find statistics on mass shooters, and what their commonalities (if any) would be.

Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had
a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background.

And shared the following traits:

• Early childhood trauma and exposure to violence.
• A crisis point. Crises were in each case personal crises that turned the respondents actively suicidal.
• Validation of beliefs — finding inspiration in past shootings (reading manifestos of prior shooters)
• The means to carry out an attack (access to a killing tool)

Suicidality was found to be a strong predictor of perpetration of mass shootings. Of all mass shooters in the The Violence Project database, 30% were suicidal prior to the shooting. An additional 39% were suicidal during the shooting. Those numbers were significantly higher for younger shooters, with K-12 students who engaged in mass shootings found to be suicidal in 92% of instances and college/university students who engaged in mass shooting suicidal 100% of the time.