TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023 #2

[Ontario Mom]

I was trying to find statistics on mass shooters, and what their commonalities (if any) would be.

Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had
a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background.

And shared the following traits:

• Early childhood trauma and exposure to violence.
• A crisis point. Crises were in each case personal crises that turned the respondents actively suicidal.
• Validation of beliefs — finding inspiration in past shootings (reading manifestos of prior shooters)
• The means to carry out an attack (access to a killing tool)

Suicidality was found to be a strong predictor of perpetration of mass shootings. Of all mass shooters in the The Violence Project database, 30% were suicidal prior to the shooting. An additional 39% were suicidal during the shooting. Those numbers were significantly higher for younger shooters, with K-12 students who engaged in mass shootings found to be suicidal in 92% of instances and college/university students who engaged in mass shooting suicidal 100% of the time.

To be fair and accurate, the link you provided does not say "reading manifestos of prior shooters" as you've included.

The article does state quite clearly that some of them have studied past mass shooters, but does not indicate the exact means by which that's done. Here's what it actually says:

"The data show that many individuals who engage in mass shootings study past mass shooters — one in five (21.6%) studied other mass shooters, and many are radicalized online. The researchers recommended media literacy education as a means of helping people critically consume information and counter extremist propaganda that facilitates violence."

Those bulleted points in context:

The research team cautioned that the qualitative data, from five interviews, did not lend themselves to generalization, because each individual’s story is unique. There was no single profile of a person who engaged in a mass shooting, but the interviewed mass shooters shared the following traits:

• Early childhood trauma and exposure to violence.
• An identifiable grievance or crisis point.
• Validation of beliefs — finding inspiration in past shootings by others.
• The means to carry out an attack.

What that link has to say about manifestos:

Warning Signs — Leakage​

Nearly half of individuals who engaged in mass shootings (48%) leaked their plans in advance to others, including family members, friends, and colleagues, as well as strangers and law enforcement officers. Legacy tokens, such as manifestos, were left behind by 23.4% of those who committed mass shootings.

It's an interesting read, thanks for sharing the link.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Also in the article:

The contents remain a mystery though TBI Director David Rausch did share some details at a recent sheriffs' association meeting:

• That the killer did not write of specific political, religious or social issues.
• And the primary focus in the writings was idolizing those who had committed prior school shootings

Yet it seems that some people are expecting there to be some kind of political motive to the shooting, when it looks like many other school shootings, where the shooter is severely disaffected and socially disconnected, and who comes to find kinship with previous school shooters and wanting to emulate them, ever since Columbine.

I have never seen such a clamor to see the writings of a mass shooter before. I hope it's not because anybody is hoping to use it to condemn all trans people because of what this one trans person did (allegedly trans, because I don't think we even know how much the shooter was committed to a trans identity).

They did say the writings are a ‘blueprint on total destruction’, so it may be much more detailed and disturbing than what we’ve seen from other mass shooters.

I also hope people are not looking to condemn people who have changed their gender identity. AH doesn’t represent them. AH lost the right to represent any group of civilized people the minute AH entered the school.

AH will forever be identified as this: a sick mass murderer.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

In the general public, however, the Rasmussen poll shows that 68% of Americans surveyed want the manifesto released, so those who want to cover up the manifesto are in the minority.

Was it question 2 of this report? Mental Health Leads Blame List for Mass Shootings

Questions - Nashville Shooting - March 30 and April 1-2, 2023 - Rasmussen Reports®

www.rasmussenreports.com

If so, only 957 people were polled. They didn’t ask me.

That said, if FOIA allows for the public to see the documents, I respect that right and acknowledge others’ right to see them.

 

[TGIRecovered]

What are we going to do though, when a member of a protected class of people slaughters children of another protected class? It gets a bit confusing. JMO

Well, one of the protected classes is considered fair game by the other protected classes. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

They did say the writings are a ‘blueprint on total destruction’, so it may be much more detailed and disturbing than what we’ve seen from other mass shooters.

I also hope people are not looking to condemn people who have changed their gender identity. AH doesn’t represent them. AH lost the right to represent any group of civilized people the minute AH entered the school.

AH will forever be identified as this: a sick mass murderer.

jmo

BBM. I don't believe AH's goal was to represent transgender <people>. I think her goal was to end the targeting of transgender <people> by politicians.

Earlier this week, the Sheriff supported releasing some of AH's writings, "ASAP." Yesterday, another story came out and he was "unavailable for comment." <modsnip>

JMO

MSN

www.msn.com

Davidson County Sheriff Daron Hall on Monday told NewsChannel5 he believes the materials should be released "ASAP." His office on Tuesday said Hall was "unavailable for further comment."

U.S. Sen. Bill Hagerty, R-Tennessee, is among a number of elected officials who have called for a release of the materials.
<modsnip>

 

[steeltowngirl]

I suppose we won’t know the murderer’s goals until the manifesto is released, which is what many here have been saying.

The goal may have been retribution for political motives, as described above - but the reports we’ve heard so far say it was not.

The goal may have been more personal, dating back to the time AH spent at the school. Public documents and news articles are available regarding a scandal there in the 2008 - 2013 era.

Perhaps that is the ‘elephant in the room’ some have described.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. I don't believe AH's goal was to represent transgenders. I think her goal was to end the targeting of transgenders by politicians.

RSBM

Except, there's this:

Investigators confiscated hard drives and handwritten journals from the home of The Covenant School shooter. The contents remain a mystery though TBI Director David Rausch did share some details at a recent sheriffs' association meeting:

• That the killer did not write of specific political, religious or social issues.
• And the primary focus in the writings was idolizing those who had committed prior school shootings

Hall said the shooter clearly had issues going on. But what were they? In this information vacuum, Sheriff Hall said speculation has run wild, and that releasing the details would answer questions.
"I believe the public interest to know that would help ease some of the rumors," Hall said. "Ease the blame game that's going on. You have to weigh that with the benefits of keeping that out of the public's eye." Davidson County Sheriff wants The Covenant School shooter's manifesto released. Here's why.

It sounds to me like she just wanted to create as much bloodshed as possible, for no other reason than that.
She picked a location she knew (because she was familiar with it) didn't have armed security and off she went.

Not a hate crime against Christians, not a political statement about transgender <people>.
Releasing the manifesto would sure stop that "blame game" Sheriff Hall mentioned.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I do hope the actual motive is finally revealed and wish for nothing but mercy and comfort for all the loved ones of the victims, as well as the family of the shooter. So many victims, I can't even imagine dealing with that kind of pain. Take care all, see you on other threads.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I'll continue to rely on the judgment of LE to decide whether the writings are released.

For example, if the shooter listed specific names of people she wanted to target, some other deranged person may decide to act. The Kentucky shooting so quickly after the Nashville shooting proves mental illness is a very serious problem in this country.

The information that may contain sensitive information could simply be redacted.

The US is supposed to be a country that keeps the public informed and not in the dark.

No one is forced to read.

A person with a sick mind will carry out their plans regardless of what any manifesto relays.

When the public is denied access to information and accepts this as fair, we begin witnessing our freedoms and rights being slowly stripped away.


JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The information that may contain sensitive information could simply be redacted.

The US is supposed to be a country that keeps the public informed and not in the dark.

No one is forced to read.

A person with a sick mind will carry out their plans regardless of what any manifesto relays.

When the public is denied access to information and accepts this as fair, we begin witnessing our freedoms and rights being slowly stripped away.


JMO

The FOIA spells out what the public has a right to know. LE's investigation is still open according to news reports.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

The FOIA spells out what the public has a right to know. LE's investigation is still open according to news reports.

JMO

There is no active criminal investigation going. Or is there? The Sheriff wants to release the information. I'm guessing someone is telling him no.

 

[MyBelle]

There is no active criminal investigation going. Or is there? The Sheriff wants to release the information. I'm guessing someone is telling him no.

Two days ago:

The Metro Nashville Police Department previously denied The Tennessean's request for the files, citing an open investigation, despite the shooter's death and lack of a pending court case.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[iamshadow21]

There is no active criminal investigation going. Or is there? The Sheriff wants to release the information. I'm guessing someone is telling him no.

An investigation doesn't stop when a perpetrator dies in the commission of crime. What a terrible way of operating that would be. An investigation is over when everybody involved is confident they know all the facts they can surrounding a crime and the person/s who committed it.

MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

An investigation doesn't stop when a perpetrator dies in the commission of crime. What a terrible way of operating that would be. An investigation is over when everybody involved is confident they know all the facts they can surrounding a crime and the person/s who committed it.

MOO

So what is the excuse to not release the information? Usually it is that it could inhibit a criminal investigation and endanger a prosecution/defense. That isn't the case here.

 

[iamshadow21]

So what is the excuse to not release the information? Usually it is that it could inhibit a criminal investigation and endanger a prosecution/defense. That isn't the case here.

Because they haven't finished yet? And releasing stuff prematurely, before you've thoroughly gone through everything, can be harmful?

To point to another case of completely different mass murder, we only just learnt new, more specific details about the cause of death of individuals in the Broken Arrow murder/suicide, and that happened in October last year. Before then, all we knew was that guns and fire were involved.

MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

Two days ago:

The Metro Nashville Police Department previously denied The Tennessean's request for the files, citing an open investigation, despite the shooter's death and lack of a pending court case.

MSN

www.msn.com

You missed the point of my comment. Why is this denied? Does their excuse hold up? You have three entitles in play here: the city police, they have their own report, the county Sheriff, they have their own report, and the FBI. Are all of these still ongoing investigations? They need to explain what is still outstanding.

 

[PrairieWind]

Because they haven't finished yet? And releasing stuff prematurely, before you've thoroughly gone through everything, can be harmful?

To point to another case of completely different mass murder, we only just learnt new, more specific details about the cause of death of individuals in the Broken Arrow murder/suicide, and that happened in October last year. Before then, all we knew was that guns and fire were involved.

MOO

But LE can just say they can never disclose because you never know what else you might find.

 

[YepperBepper]

Nashville police to release manifesto in Christian school shooting massacre

Nashville police confirmed they will release a manifesto they recovered from the car of Covenant School shooter and former student Audrey Elizabeth Hale.

www.foxnews.com

Manifesto will be released....

 

[YepperBepper]

Because they haven't finished yet? And releasing stuff prematurely, before you've thoroughly gone through everything, can be harmful?

To point to another case of completely different mass murder, we only just learnt new, more specific details about the cause of death of individuals in the Broken Arrow murder/suicide, and that happened in October last year. Before then, all we knew was that guns and fire were involved.

MOO

It's honestly too bad that this was politicized early on. One side wanted an immediate release. The other side said it should never be released. Ever. Too dangerous. That then morphed into not releasing any manifestos...again, ever.

I'm in the middle. Let the "experts" do what they will and then release information.

A motive is in there somewhere. I highly doubt that the release of this document puts society in any more danger than it already is...but there were "officials" that recently stated as much.

We are all here for a different reason. I'm here for the psychology of it all. Not gun control. Not the cool court cases or legalities. The psychology is what my interest is. Perhaps that's dangerous, but no more dangerous than live footage/recordings (body cams, surveillance, 911 calls, etc.) detailed court cases with evidence (which is often gruesome and violent) and general reporting of misinformation which takes years to be addressed, if ever.

I guess the point is moot. The document will be released shortly per reports from today.

Imho

 

[Ontario Mom]

Nashville police to release manifesto in Christian school shooting massacre

Nashville police confirmed they will release a manifesto they recovered from the car of Covenant School shooter and former student Audrey Elizabeth Hale.

www.foxnews.com

Manifesto will be released....

Well then... and here I was ready to move on in hopes we'd eventually, one day, maybe, know why she did what she did.
I guess that day may be coming sooner rather than later.
I sure hope so.

I think undestanding is critical to a solution.