Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

[human]

If, in fact, the attorney was physically in the room, it would be because SLP agreed.

I doubt it very very much.

She was presentin the building is what I think

 

[oviedo]

A nurse told Pfluger about the recent sexual activity, so Pfluger was probably somewhere near the exam area but not in the room.
MOO

I’m waiting to see if the court hearing documents are posted on PACER surely they had a court reporter present but someone has to file the transcript - I don’t know how federal court document postings work (just bankruptcy) we have a member who has access so am waiting patiently

 

[human]

In Minnesota, child court issues are open.

https://open.mitchellhamline.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1852&context=wmlr

 

[gitana1]

I really think it does. I may take my mom to the doc, but I’m not “present for her exam” unless I’m actually present for her exam. Words matter. She’s an attorney. I have no reason to believe an attorney would not use exact language.

I'm an attorney too. Present for the exam doesn't need to mean in the room IMO.

There's no way the nurse would announce such findings to an attorney in the presence of the child victim.

They also need to consider what evidence or samples they've gathered.

To me it would be like an X-Ray. The tech takes it. You go in another room and the doctor interprets "examines" it.

In this case someone gathers or records the evidence. In another room that evidence is examined - analyzed and interpreted. I can't see that being done in the same room in front of the child. That doesn't make sense.

She was present as the evidence was examined. Not as the child was examined, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

If, in fact, the attorney was physically in the room, it would be because SLP agreed.

I doubt it very very much.

She was presentin the building is what I think

I’m not so sure that a 14 year old in this situation, particularly with her background, would feel that she could refuse. Could she have consented? Sure. But was she comfortable with it? I question that. Just my opinion.

 

[gitana1]

Just speculation and MOO, would this be something they normally do to follow the chain of evidence? They can testify the evidence was never out of their sight? JMO

That's not usually the job of the prosecuting attorney. It would be the doctor or nurse and federal law enforcement in this case (maybe a forensic doctor or nurse) who gather/record the evidence and testify to the chain of custody.

 

[gitana1]

What is your opinion that either side did not make an effort to seal the proceedings that just happened?

From what I've seen and what I know of constitutional law it's not typical to seal whole cases or hearings. Sometimes certain things are sealed for very specific reasons. Like the investigation is on-going and they don't want to tip anyone off as to what they have.

There are serious constitutional issues involved.

The federal rape shield law doesn't cover things like this.

 

[gitana1]

Recent sexual activity was verified in court due to the test that they did?. The nurse would not have no idea as to the results of that. That would only be done through the laboratory and then the results through the doctor? It's a nurse did an exclamatory statement, during the test of her SA, that would be different

Or after they gathered the evidence the nurse may have consulted with the prosecutor and stated "she has recent bruising on her genitalia" for example. "It's not faded." "How recent does it appear to you?" "Last few days."

This is an example only. Another example could be a nurse reports they found microscopic semen that would be present via recent activity only.

That's not going to be discussed in front of the victim like that.

The people collecting evidence (nurses, techs) are going to be pros in sex crimes. Not random medical professionals. They would know how to be sensitive around a victim.

Also, these are forensic professionals. They are simply not allowed to make statements of any kind that could influence the child victim/witness. They would absolutely never make an excited utterance or any other statmentabout their findings in the presence of the child. That can destroy a case.

 

[Jim_M]

Or after they gathered the evidence the nurse may have consulted with the prosecutor and stated "she has recent bruising on her genitalia" for example. "It's not faded." "How recent does it appear to you?" "Last few days."

This is an example only. Another example could be a nurse reports they found microscopic semen that would be present via recent activity only.

That's not going to be discussed in front of the victim like that.

The people collecting evidence (nurses, techs) are going to be pros in sex crimes. Not random medical professionals. They would know how to be sensitive around a victim.

Also, these are forensic professionals. They are simply not allowed to make statements of any kind that could influence the child victim/witness. They would absolutely never make an excited utterance or any other statement about their findings in the presence of the child. That can destroy a case.

The reality of everything this child has been through makes me so sad. Mad also. IMO I will refrain from anything more.

 

[PommyMommy]

Recent sexual activity was verified in court due to the test that they did?. The nurse would not have no idea as to the results of that. That would only be done through the laboratory and then the results through the doctor? It's a nurse did an exclamatory statement, during the test of her SA, that would be different

One article states that medical testing found injuries related to sexual activity. Another article said a sexual assault examination (no mention of testing) was done. Another article called it a sexual assault exam (again, no mention of testing).

SP was examined. The exam indicated there was recent sexual activity and the nurse informed Pfluger.

I’m waiting to see if the court hearing documents are posted on PACER surely they had a court reporter present but someone has to file the transcript - I don’t know how federal court document postings work (just bankruptcy) we have a member who has access so am waiting patiently

Me too!

 

[margarita25]

BBM - Did you guys miss this part?

Madison man heads to trial for production of child *advertiser censored* in missing Tennessee girl case
A Madison man is set to go to trial after a federal judge said Tuesday there is probable cause to charge him with production of child *advertiser censored* in connection to a missing Tennessee girl who was found in Wisconsin. The judge also ruled to detain the defendant until trial.

In court Tuesday, assistant U.S. attorney Julie Pfluger said this proves what the charges allege: Rogers asked the girl to make a video, and the video was transported across state lines. Pfluger also said she was present for a sexual assault exam in Madison, where the nurse said there was recent sexual activity and it was "not possible these are from the father."

However, Rogers’ attorney said the “intent is highly relevant.”

I can’t get past this post, still sitting here fuming two hours later.

So this is how BR chose to help a desperate frantic abused child victim? Take her to his basement for sex! Disgusting awful predator! There are no words for the depravity of this individual!! I’m not one bit surprised by all of this as I smelled a predator from the beginning but to actually hear this confirmed...

I’ve got more comments but I’m sure you guys have already said a lot of it. Reading forward now.

 

[BUF]

Pfluger specializes in these types of cases. I am confident that she has followed proper protocol in these matters to try to secure a conviction.

 

[BUF]

I can’t get past this post, still sitting here fuming two hours later.

So this is how BR chose to help a desperate frantic abused child victim? Take her to his basement for sex! Disgusting awful predator! There are no words for the depravity of this individual!! I’m not one bit surprised by all of this as I smelled a predator from the beginning but to actually hear this confirmed...

I’ve got more comments but I’m sure you guys have already said a lot of it. Reading forward now.

I know Margarita...I got so depressed last night after hearing this that I had to step away for a while.

 

[Jim_M]

That struck me too. Because she's begging him for help. And he keeps insisting that the ONLY surefire way for her to be rescued and not returned to her dad is by recording it and sending it to him.

Here is how many times she begs him to help her without having her record her own rape and send it to him:

ONE: She pleads, "Bryan do u understand how hard that would be though" But he is unmoved by her anguish, "Yes But understand that I can get in a hell of a lot of trouble for harboring you Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him if we get caught."

TWO: She again tries to get help without recording her own rape, "I just can’t promise I’ll get the evidence". He remains unmoved by how horrified she is by what he is suggesting, "Then I can’t promise I can get you away from that I hate to say it but I can’t risk getting trouble for you. If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad and I’ll be in trouble"

THREE: Again, she pleads, "I don’t have the mental strength or confidence enough to get the video… I’m so sorry Bryan." Here she is actually apologizing to HIM for not doing what he is coercing her to do. Fits a predator victim/pattern to me. He is harsh in his response to this terrified and anguished child. Instead of offering other options, any other option, his reply? "Then I can’t come get you I’m sorry but I cannot risk prison time for you".

FOUR: She pleads again, "Bryan plz There has to be some [redacted] way". I mean here I really see a child just begging an adult to do the right thing and not force her to get raped on camera. "There has to be some way" and there IS some other way.

But no. His response is cold and sinister. His nonchalance about what this child faces in getting him the "evidence" he craves is disturbing, "Just out of curiosity why can’t you just stay in your room and wait for him to get you? He’s going to rape you anyway, might as well have the phone recording". WTH? What kind of adult responds to a terrified child in this manner? A pleading child:

"There has to be some way."
"Just wait for him to get you. He's going to rape you anyway, might as well record it."

Wow. The utter disregard for what this baby is going through and goes through at the hands of her father, is stunning. He is supposed to be this knight in shining armor? Some misguided hero? A well meaning but stupid person trying to "do the right thing"?

And yet this is how he responds to her pleas for help. To her desperation and helpless horror about subjecting herself to having her rape recorded and sent to a strange man.

"There has to be some way."
"Just out of curiosity why can't you just stay in your room..."

As if it's just such a reasonable suggestion. As if it's no big deal for a terrified 14 year old who has been repeatedly brutalized, to record it.

FIVE: Again, this little girl pleads. Once more desperate for this adult to help her without making her get raped on camera, "Bryan I can’t stand it I’ll have a [effing] mental breakdown… idfk how"

This noble hero's response? "Ok".

Ok?

"I'll have a mental breakdown." His response is basically, "Oh well."

This is tragic to me. She knew in her heart he could help her without that. His cold manipulation of her and capitalization of her desperation to me in this conversation chain is obvious.

But she tries another time to get this adult to do the right thing for her. To avoid forcing her to exploit herself and endure hell on camera. Begging. Pleading.

SIX: "There has to be a way I can’t just stay here bryan I’m begging u plz" And he again insists, "There is. Be in your room when he comes home and have the phone recording. That way when he comes for you it’s already recording and you don’t have to worry about anything And I can’t help you if we don’t have foolproof leverage against your dad". He coerces her to think the only way to get "foolproof leverage" is to record herself being raped. And send it to stranger. Despite the cost to her mental stability in doing so. Our hero.

Finally, she explains the depth of her horror over what he is telling her to do as the price for freedom. She demonstrates that so great is her anguish over the possibility of being raped on camera, in order to be helped, that she would rather just die.

SEVEN: "If u don’t help me somehow I might as well kill my [effing] self like I’ve been planning to do I can’t get the video I just can’t"

This caring hero's response to a terrorized child? He becomes angry. Defensive. She's 14 and being raped. She's pleading for help. And he gets mad at her, "So I’m an *advertiser censored***** for not risking going to prison for someone I haven’t even met?". He shows how much he cares for this vulnerable child, "someone I haven't even met", yet is willing to work so hard to "help" her by getting her to record her rape, send it to him and then drive to pick her up and transport her across state lines?

Once again, she begs for help and states she cannot do it. She cannot get that dreaded but much coveted video.

EIGHT: "IDFK ANYMORE! But u can’t just leave me here! If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either Idfk what to do anymore

Again, he demonstrates an utter disregard for her mental state, an utter lack of any empathy for this child victim, “And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either”

NINE: "If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either Idfk what to do anymore"

The child is so desperate for this adult to do the right thing, she actually suggests an alternative herself - running away (it's actually the second time she hopefully suggests it before he bites) - and only then, nine times after she expressed her devastation about doing what he kept telling her she had to do, does he casually tell her she can take that option. " Good. Run away to a friends house".

But we see later in the conversation how he uses his skill at manipulation in making that option seem like not a sure thing, as opposed to his determination in getting her to record her rape. "Run to a friends house and hope for the best".

This kid doesn't stop though. She tries yet again. Please, man. Help me. Don't make me do this. Just help me. Do the right thing.

TEN: "That’s all the [EFFING] advice u have for me"?

And here he coldly lies, "That’s all I can offer If I knew something else I would tell you".

Oh he knew something else that could help this begging child. But he only really wanted one thing.

To me this is almost a master class in predatory manipulation. He tries to persuade her it's the only logical thing. He pretends that this is the only way to save herself. He acts like it is no big deal. He insists he cannot get involved any other way. He reacts with coldness when she tries to get out of it, withdrawing his friendliness and depriving her of his friendship. He becomes angry and defensive and tries to make himself out to be the victim, sullenly accusing her of being a jerk for not considering HIS position. She's a vulnerable child. He's a knowledgeable adult. Communicating with a child over the internet and trying to convince her to send him a video of herself being raped. He uses every emotion and argument he can to get that video. Textbook predation, IMO.

Ultimately, in the face of her continued expressions of anguish and horror about doing what he wants her to do, he lackadaisically suggests other options. But those options never come to fruition. He never calls the police. He takes no action to be a real hero to this frightened and devastated little girl.

But we know this: They talk again.

He gets the tape.

In case anyone missed this. Someone replied (and I apologize for forgetting who. It may have been Human...) that everyone really needs to read this. Slowly IMO. And then remember how he comforted SLP (NOT!) in his basement lair.

 

[margarita25]

I know Margarita...I got so depressed last night after hearing this that I had to step away for a while.

(Really upsetting. So angry. And sad. I know you guys get it.)

 

[Scrapper18]

Do we have a media thread for SLP yet? I stepped away a few days and am completely lost!

 

[jellybean96]

Do we have a media thread for SLP yet? I stepped away a few days and am completely lost!

Yes - Here it is.

TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Kadoober]

I hope more than anything that tonight SP is in a place with people prepared to comfort her properly, to let her know that she is loved, she is safe, she is SO brave and strong and good, and that she did absolutely nothing wrong in ANY of this.

 

[Doghairrules]

Present at the exam sounds to me like “in the room,” possibly outside a curtain, but... Or not? This makes me uncomfortable for the victim.

Especially if SLP still felt that BR had saved her at the time of this
Exam. I hope she agreed to it and it wasn’t forced on her.

 

[margarita25]

It’s never a good thing or acceptable when someone is harmed but there’s something extra deplorable about those who prey on the sick and the weak, who take advantage of others who are vulnerable and hurting to fulfill their own selfish needs.

Just so sick about this can barely post. I’d really like to tell this what I think about him.