want2solveit
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If he lived he could testify against them, thus he must not live. The emts knew they were witnesses and could wind up like the victim.
TN - Tyre Nichols, beaten to death by 5 Memphis Police Officers, Jan 2023 *officers charged*
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sds71
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Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs
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Answers to pressing questions about the Tyre Nichols EMS response, such as how quickly an ambulance arrived, are presumably somewhere in the gated off Memphis City Hall, held from public. Mayor's office says answers may be given Tuesday. That'd be 3 weeks after his death.
@NickAtNew
Answers to pressing questions about the Tyre Nichols EMS response, such as how quickly an ambulance arrived, are presumably somewhere in the gated off Memphis City Hall, held from public. Mayor's office says answers may be given Tuesday. That'd be 3 weeks after his death.
Culperagent355
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These were my thoughts as well. More here than meets the eye. Prior history? This "posse" that is called Scorpion looks like they were intended to intimidate the community and threaten them to keep them "in line." Disturbing. Condolences for Tyre's family, as well as the entire community.
Wishbone
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Regardless of her past, the management of her current department seems sorely lacking.IMO
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Willow Knight
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I am so with you on every word above. There are a few really disturbing thoughts keep going through my mind, first how did it just happen that there were five officers on duty at the same time capable of committing this crime? Are there only five on that force capable of doing this? Do these five always work together or do they rotate? Would there have been a different outcome had one of them been off that night and another officer was working in that place.
Second I've been thinking for the last few days what we, the people, can do. It's all about our constitution. In this case the 4th amendment. How much training do officers receive, do they know the constitution, they took an oath to uphold the law, not make law.
We the people elect our representatives, I for one tax payer want everyone in congress to take a 2% wage drop and that 2% go towards police training. We elect and pay their wages to work for us, to run the country so we the people can go on with daily jobs and activities. They work for us, we do not work for them.
All potential law enforcement officer MUST learn and pass a constitution exam. No more punching, kicking, beating with bats unless it is self defense.
People killing police officers, police officers killing people. It must end.
Wishbone
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Brief description of scorpion unit in this article.
What is Memphis Police Department’s SCORPION unit?
SCORPION unit reportedly stands for Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods.
branmuffin
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I've read more than once that police departments intentionally refuse to hire officers with higher IQs because they are more likely to get bored and leave the job after being trained.
This article is old, but I think if you take some time to search there is at least one other that is worth a read.
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
abcnews.go.com
I worked for the OPP for nearly 30 years and over that time the hiring processes and criteria changed dramatically. There was no more hiring the kid who barely graduated high school but was tall, muscular and didn't need glasses.
Most of the new recruits have higher educations and not just some community college courses in policing. Many of them have degrees. We had lawyers, psychologists and any number of individuals who were accountants and other professions. Quite a few have special training and skills like SCUBA, pilot licenses, multi-lingual, etc. They needed to prove they were community minded by having a history in things like coaching little league, helping out humane societies, visiting seniors, working for charities, etc. Since the OPP polices many communities including fairly large metropolitan areas (not Toronto) we spent a lot of time recruiting from diverse ethnic groups to reflect the demographics like Chinese, East Asian, Filippino, Latin Americans, etc.
Our cops are in good physical condition. That was one thing I could never get used to when we'd travel down to the States and see some cops who could barely get in and out of their cruisers they were so overweight. We do hire ex military members but that isn't a free pass at all. Psychological training is focused on personal suitability. Have some members fallen through the cracks? Yes, on occasion, but overall I think OPP members reflects the requirements; they are intelligent, well trained individuals who joined because of a social commitment. The money is very good, too. I can't overlook that fact. I don't think the OPP worries about losing recruits or members because they are too intelligent for the job.
sds71
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Petunia83
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With the key phrase being, “regardless of her past”, I don’t disagree with you. I think that’s a fair assessment, for sure. However, she is also technically responsible for 2,142 officers working under her. She cannot be at each of their sides on the job every day to have seen the warning signs herself. That’s an impossible, super-human standard. She has to rely on those in supervisory positions beneath her to also do their jobs, but even so, and as she said in her interview, she cannot remove herself from responsibility for this, because ultimately it’s true, the buck stops with her. There are major problems that need to be identified and rectified. Where is the breakdown, how in God’s name could this happen? They need to do a massive evaluation of every single police officer, every single department, every single supervisor, and figure it out because this should have never happened. I’m not saying that she does not bear responsibility, she does, but so do a whole lot of other people, with a much more immediate degree of proximity to this… somewhere between her, and the behavior of officers on the ground, there is a massive breakdown… and the fact that so many police officers were on scene and did nothing tells me that this department needs to take a serious look at it’s people and perhaps completely “clean house” in some areas, because it was obvious from the videos, and she said in her statements, there is some sort of twisted “groupthink” going on… but so far, I think her response has been swift, serious, professional, transparent and about as good as can be expected under the circumstances.
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Petunia83
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Thank you! OK, so question… I’ve been wondering this ever since but I can’t fully hear what they’re saying on the video, so maybe you know… at some point, it seems like there is conversation on the radio between the first responders and the police on scene, and one of the parties asked the other something like, ‘are you coming here or are we coming over there? I was confused by the exchange, because I would think a firetruck or ambulance would pull right up to that location but maybe they couldn’t get down the street or something?? I don’t know, maybe I’m grasping for straws trying to make my brain come up with a rational explanation for why EMS wouldn’t be jumping in and attending to Tyre immediately. Did they not know the extent of his injuries? I just don’t get it… am I the only one confused by that exchange?
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Falcon500
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<modsnip> Go to any big city and you will nearly always see a backlog of 911 calls for both fire and police. People misuse the 911 system for rides to the ER for headaches, sore elbows, an earache, or some issue that could be taken care of at a clinic or (God forbid) a doctors office. You also see calls to 911 for a ride home! When there are no ambulances then people wait.
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Petunia83
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<modsnip> IMO, the question as to why first responders did not render aid to Tyre for an extended period of time after they had already arrived on scene, is a legitimate one. I think it is important to Tyre’s family, and to society writ-large, that we obtain a satisfactory answer to this. And by satisfactory, I mean whatever we can learn from an investigation that is deliberate and detailed. It was literally a matter of life and death, and first responders were on scene, so why did no one help him? MOO.
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Telltale
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You know I don't think there is any type of conspiracy going on with this case. I don't think they knew Tyre, targeted him, were particularly pissed at him or deliberately left him without help. In fact I'd go so far as to say I don't think it was much of an outlier at all.
I think that a high level of violence became accepted and normalised within this department or at least in this team. This sort of thing, (immediately aggressive tactics and violent unjustifiable beatings upon arrest) has probably has happened many times before.
The difference here being:
1) Tyre has no significant history of drugs/ crime/ mental health issues to shift sympathy or accountability.
2) There's unarguably clear and unbroken video of Tyre's lack of violent resistance or aggression throughout
3) He ended up injured badly enough to die.
That's why they don't bother rushing with an ambulance and stand around joking. They've done similar before and the guys they beat up lived, any lingering questions about excessive injuries or long term damage got covered with 'he went for mah gun.'
I think those five has no idea how badly Tyre was injured. They dragged him over to the car and propped him up because they thought he'd come-to after a bit, get checked out and they'd cart him off. Leave him to lick his wounds in the local lockup, let his mum bail him out in the morning on some resisting arrest and reckless driving offence. - Job well done, cake all around. A painful night in a cell will teach him for embarrassing us, making us do cardio after we sprayed our own faces with pepperspray etc etc.
The arriving officers/EMTs didn't rush to his aid because they got told he was a bit battered but conscious-ish. If they had an inkling he was almost comotose, they would have at minimum faked concern while cameras were rolling to cover their asses.
I'd bet that's why the Scorpion Squad or whatever its called got dismantled in a hurry as well. I'd not be surprised if other folk with lasting, though not fatal, injuries from this unit are about to surface. Along with a legacy of ignored complaints and retaliatory charges for those who dared to speak up on it.
I think that a high level of violence became accepted and normalised within this department or at least in this team. This sort of thing, (immediately aggressive tactics and violent unjustifiable beatings upon arrest) has probably has happened many times before.
The difference here being:
1) Tyre has no significant history of drugs/ crime/ mental health issues to shift sympathy or accountability.
2) There's unarguably clear and unbroken video of Tyre's lack of violent resistance or aggression throughout
3) He ended up injured badly enough to die.
That's why they don't bother rushing with an ambulance and stand around joking. They've done similar before and the guys they beat up lived, any lingering questions about excessive injuries or long term damage got covered with 'he went for mah gun.'
I think those five has no idea how badly Tyre was injured. They dragged him over to the car and propped him up because they thought he'd come-to after a bit, get checked out and they'd cart him off. Leave him to lick his wounds in the local lockup, let his mum bail him out in the morning on some resisting arrest and reckless driving offence. - Job well done, cake all around. A painful night in a cell will teach him for embarrassing us, making us do cardio after we sprayed our own faces with pepperspray etc etc.
The arriving officers/EMTs didn't rush to his aid because they got told he was a bit battered but conscious-ish. If they had an inkling he was almost comotose, they would have at minimum faked concern while cameras were rolling to cover their asses.
I'd bet that's why the Scorpion Squad or whatever its called got dismantled in a hurry as well. I'd not be surprised if other folk with lasting, though not fatal, injuries from this unit are about to surface. Along with a legacy of ignored complaints and retaliatory charges for those who dared to speak up on it.
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Petunia83
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<modsnip> I have said this a few times already but I feel like I need to say it again <modsnip> There is a lot of misunderstanding about the officers who were charged with Tyre’s death, the officers who BEAT him, and were on scene, and their association with the SCORPION unit… and I blame MSM entirely for the confiscation.
Only TWO of the FIVE officers who killed Tyre were members of SCORPION - “Desmond Mills Jr. and Emmitt Martin III, two of the officers charged in Nichols' death, were members of SCORPION.” (see link to article below).
<modsnip> There were more than 10 officers on scene, I don’t even think we have an official count of how many people were actually there at this point, we definitely don’t have the full story yet… but my point is, if five cops beat someone to death, and three of those five officers have nothing to do with the SCORPION Unit, there is no way that we can simply blame it all on SCORPION. IMO, I am much more inclined to agree with a lot of you who have been posting on here about how there seems to be some sort of systemic aggression and/or affinity for asserting dominance and violence in some pockets of the MPD as a whole for unknown reasons. Does that mean that the SCORPION unit had nothing to do with this? Of course not. The fact is that two of the officers who killed Tyre were members, and every facet of these officers’ history, and respective units needs to be thoroughly investigated. Beyond that, just as Tyre’s family’s attorneys have stated, this tragedy has forever tainted the name of the SCORPION Unit, regardless of any good it had ever accomplished in the past, and yes, it should be dismantled as a result. And any noble officers who were a part of that unit, who perhaps did do good work, IMO, would support that and would not want their good names associated with it.
Anyway, again I’m not trying to be nitpicky but I just wanted to point out that the “problem” appears to be quite a bit larger and much more systemic in ways, than just some special unit that got high on a power trip and went rogue. If that were the case, then what’s everybody else’s excuse who either took part in the beating themselves, or who stood idly by letting it happen?
I’m certainty no expert, and I don’t know how one goes about fixing this kind of mentality in their PD, but I don’t think it’s as simple as just disbanding a unit that only a minority of the attackers/bystanders were part of, and placing all the blame squarely there.
Only TWO of the FIVE officers who killed Tyre were members of SCORPION - “Desmond Mills Jr. and Emmitt Martin III, two of the officers charged in Nichols' death, were members of SCORPION.” (see link to article below).
<modsnip> There were more than 10 officers on scene, I don’t even think we have an official count of how many people were actually there at this point, we definitely don’t have the full story yet… but my point is, if five cops beat someone to death, and three of those five officers have nothing to do with the SCORPION Unit, there is no way that we can simply blame it all on SCORPION. IMO, I am much more inclined to agree with a lot of you who have been posting on here about how there seems to be some sort of systemic aggression and/or affinity for asserting dominance and violence in some pockets of the MPD as a whole for unknown reasons. Does that mean that the SCORPION unit had nothing to do with this? Of course not. The fact is that two of the officers who killed Tyre were members, and every facet of these officers’ history, and respective units needs to be thoroughly investigated. Beyond that, just as Tyre’s family’s attorneys have stated, this tragedy has forever tainted the name of the SCORPION Unit, regardless of any good it had ever accomplished in the past, and yes, it should be dismantled as a result. And any noble officers who were a part of that unit, who perhaps did do good work, IMO, would support that and would not want their good names associated with it.
Anyway, again I’m not trying to be nitpicky but I just wanted to point out that the “problem” appears to be quite a bit larger and much more systemic in ways, than just some special unit that got high on a power trip and went rogue. If that were the case, then what’s everybody else’s excuse who either took part in the beating themselves, or who stood idly by letting it happen?
I’m certainty no expert, and I don’t know how one goes about fixing this kind of mentality in their PD, but I don’t think it’s as simple as just disbanding a unit that only a minority of the attackers/bystanders were part of, and placing all the blame squarely there.
What is Memphis' SCORPION unit, involved in Tyre Nichols' death?
What is SCORPION? A look at the Memphis Police Department's special unit involved in the death of Tyre Nichols.
www.tennessean.com
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branmuffin
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I'm kind of gobsmacked by that policing number. Based on the population of Memphis that's one cop for every 294 people. I know they have one of the highest crime rates in the country but what causes it? Lack of education? Low income jobs that don't have any security? Poverty and isolation? Whatever it is, I think the Scorpion team was bound to fail because its mission statement didn't reflect the process the officers used. When every citizen is a potential suspect in the eyes of LE in this unit it was a recipe for disaster, imo.
ilovewings
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I think your post is very insightful
Petunia83
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I definitely don’t disagree at all. These are all really good points. I just think that based on what we know so far though, this still goes beyond just the SCORPION team. There’s still more “there” there, that needs to be identified and expelled. They need to do some deep investigative work into their own police dept. and get rid of everything and anyone else that’s rotten. IMO.
BBM
I think you are right about this, @Ray_of_hope (wrong person)
I listened to the end of video number 4, starting about the 17 minute mark, towards the end of video.
I didn’t hear any reference to a mustang, but there definitely seems to be some confusion and a discussion about another unit having someone in custody.
I can’t make it out well, but definitely some confusing moments/comments by the officer wearing the body cam, IMO
branmuffin
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Then if those kinds of impediments challenged the EMTs on this call they should have been hustling when they reached Tyre instead of standing around like people at a cocktail party. All those things you mentioned are true but they cannot explain away the lack of response of those who arrived at the scene.
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