Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes Are Divorcing

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and now TC is in NYC with Suri. I am inclined to agree with the posters that say he won't kidnap her. But then again, TC is nuts.

http://www.eonline.com/news/330811/tom-cruise-and-suri-reunite-in-nyc

Yea I saw that, very interesting, I read that Katie has not yet been officially declared an SP yet, the paperwork is being typed up as we speak from what I am hearing on the COS forums and everyone is saying this is going to be very hard for the COS to manage with other members if TC is allowed contact with Katie in any fashion or Suri for that matter if Katie has custody, again this is the main reason Nicole has not been involved in the other kids life, it is quite impossible to have one parent in the COS and the other out as an SP and have the kid spend time with both parents. It may be ok right now but as time goes on and Katie is finally declared TC is going to have to make a choice here, and DM is also as far as how he handles this internally, if he starts letting TC have contact with an SP youre going to have A LOT of COS members who will be very angry because they have been forbidden from seeing their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives for years and even decades etc due to one of them being an SP, so like I said, this is a very delicate and serious matter internally for the COS. Some of the forums are going crazy discussing this very issue.
 
Yea I saw that, very interesting, I read that Katie has not yet been officially declared an SP yet, the paperwork is being typed up as we speak from what I am hearing on the COS forums and everyone is saying this is going to be very hard for the COS to manage with other members if TC is allowed contact with Katie in any fashion or Suri for that matter if Katie has custody, again this is the main reason Nicole has not been involved in the other kids life, it is quite impossible to have one parent in the COS and the other out as an SP and have the kid spend time with both parents. It may be ok right now but as time goes on and Katie is finally declared TC is going to have to make a choice here, and DM is also as far as how he handles this internally, if he starts letting TC have contact with an SP youre going to have A LOT of COS members who will be very angry because they have been forbidden from seeing their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives foer years and even decades etc due to one of them being an SP, so like I said, this is a very delicate and serious matter internally for the COS. Some of the forums are going crazy discussion this very issue.

Yes, they are in the middle of a mess; and I am quite pleased with this fact. I hope those COS members that have been separated from the families might wake up to see COS for what it really is.
 
Yes, they are in the middle of a mess; and I am quite pleased with this fact. I hope those COS members that have been separated from the families might wake up to see COS for what it really is.

See that is what is going to cause major problem, I would say 80% of the church membership is forbidden from having any contact with mom or dad or brother or sister or wife or children because they are SP now if they allow TC to do that its gonna cause internal chaos.

The issue with this may not be so evident to those outside but Katie as an SP raising Suri is a problem because TC cannot have any contact with the SP but the SP could use Suri in this case to put bad things in TC's head (for example "wake the **** up you idiot youre being controlled by a cult") thereby making Suri what COS calls a PTS, potential trouble source. This is enforced very strictly in the Church because they say any bad things put in to a members head by an SP or a PTS will prevent the "tech" (brainwashing) from working properly. And of course they are right LOL, for obvious reasons.

I am also hearing that Katies mom and dad may be declared SPs, they have not been up to this point but because of dad's role in helping with the separation they may very well be now which is a double whammy with Suri being raised by an SP mother and SP grandparents. Big trouble for the COS ahead. Mark my word on this one.
 
I am thinking that if I am DM right now I let TC go ahead and see Suri, she is 6 years old and too young to know what is going on, certainly too young for the SP mother to be using her to send anti-cult messages to TC so to keep TC from looking like a total nutjob who chooses the cult over his 6 year old daughter and walks away because mom is a SP, go ahead and let him see Suri for a while BUT AS TIME goes on and Suri gets older and starts to hear and understand things if she is with Katie she could then became, in the church's mind, a PTS (although I dont see Katie ever using her daughter like that, the Church certainly would see her doing it and claim she is), so when Suri is like 10 or 12, then this becomes a major bigger problem for everyone and TC then probably has to make a choice to walk away from a PTS daughter and SP ex wife or leave the COS.

This issue cannot be overlooked, to demonstrate how serious the COS about it read about the case of Heber and Karen Jentzsch, Heber is a member of COS his wife once was she left, they have a son who stayed in and was raised in the COS, he DIED last week, found dead in his apartment in LA at the age of 36 (with somewhat mysterious circumstances that some have tried to pin on COS and DM, some are now saying in his last days he was calling his mother crying saying he wanted out and wanted to be with her), the COS had a funeral for him and REFUSED to allow his mother to attend and see her son for one last time, she never got to see him, they cremated him the other day and the mom Karen was refused any ability to see him at all. Thats pretty ****ed up but that is what they did it was all over the news last week, look up ALEX Jentzsch and mother Karen, father Heber, Heber had a fallout with DM and has been imprisoned in the church HOLE (according to some reports) their internal prison, for, some say, up to 3 years how, he is 76 years old, he was taken to to the funeral under heavy security and allowed to see his son then immediately taken back in to the hole (or wherever he is being held captive), the mother was not allowed to be there, she sent msgs to thousands of COS members on FB pleading for someone to intervene so she could see her son one last time before he was cremated and she was totally ignored, all because she is an SP who left a few years back after witnessing abuse and staff members being abused.
 
Note to Tom: Suri is 6, now... she can walk.

That's it...
 
Have any of you ever heard the theory that Suri was created using sperm from Elron Hubbard that was saved before he died. A lot of COS insiders believe it. Some say TC settled so easily with Katie because if he pushed things she could order a paternity test and prove to everyone its not really his child and it was a COS project to have Hubbard's child. But, as the theory goes, he agreed to settle quietly and she would accept a gag order in return and never tell.

I am not sure I believe it, she seems to look a bit like TC and Katie mixed, but I do know a lot of COS members and ex members who swear by this. Interesting nonetheless.
 
^^Lol yeah heard that LRH rumor. Suri is clearly the product of TC and KH.

I know some of the members are unhappy with the celebs different treatment and non-requirements from some of the interviews. I'm sure this will tip a few more over. Can't save the ones that are old timers and "institutionalized" though. They'll just keep tuning out and turning in.
 
^^Lol yeah heard that LRH rumor. Suri is clearly the product of TC and KH.

I know some of the members are unhappy with the celebs different treatment and non-requirements from some of the interviews. I'm sure this will tip a few more over. Can't save the ones that are old timers and "institutionalized" though. They'll just keep tuning out and turning in.

Very true, I am seeing the same things. I keep close tabs on the Freezone Indie Scientology movement, its leaders like Marty Rathbun and the various websites that they use and there seems to be a lot of talk that already quite a few people have been in contact with them and want out saying that this whole sordid affair is the last straw for them. I sure hope that is the case although I do worry what DM may be capable of if things start to get really desperate, that is a real concern for me and as I am seeing others also.


I have seen on some news channels lately reporting that latest census information shows the COS in pretty serious decline, this of course is exactly the opposite of what COS and DM have been saying, that there has been an explosion of new growth lately in the COS, thats pure B


I think the majority of new and young membership are just kids being born in to the cult and not this generations youth becoming Scientologists, quite the opposite actually, they are all seeing through the ******** and people are laughing at TC and his nutty cult.
 
I expect TC is going to fight for custody and divorce proceedings to be in California.
I also feel Katie has some kind of ammo to use against him. She is being very pro active.
 
Hopefully most are sort of aware enough to run if DM's starts getting any more aggressive or bizarre. I worry about all those people when he starts to lose it. I wish they had some on the inside to get them out quickly, and not have to worry about how brainwashed they are and convince them. There may be no convincing some. Just a big mess. I hope it doesn't turn into anything worse than what it already is.

Too bad the entire thing can't just be shut down. I know it can't and I know how complicated it would be, and how it could just start again. Just hoping for the best for all that are involved.
 
Hopefully most are sort of aware enough to run if DM's starts getting any more aggressive or bizarre. I worry about all those people when he starts to lose it. I wish they had some on the inside to get them out quickly, and not have to worry about how brainwashed they are and convince them. There may be no convincing some. Just a big mess. I hope it doesn't turn into anything worse than what it already is.

Too bad the entire thing can't just be shut down. I know it can't and I know how complicated it would be, and how it could just start again. Just hoping for the best for all that are involved.

Yea DM has A LOT to lose if it all comes crashing down, someone like that and with his intelligence (everyone will tell you that he is extremely intelligent and capable but uses it the wrong way) could be very dangerous if things get desperate. I agree with you though, I have no idea the best way to handle this but it does seem clear they are getting away with a lot of **** that the rest of us would be sent to prison for and that is just BS.
 
In reading all these posts about COS it's left me wondering with each show I watch if my favorite actors in my favorite shows are into this cult. Is there some sort of celeb. list that says who is or isn't in this cult?
 
I expect TC is going to fight for custody and divorce proceedings to be in California.
I also feel Katie has some kind of ammo to use against him. She is being very pro active.

I am not sure really, you may very well be right, I am interested to see how that turns out but mostly I am just concerned for Suri, I really hope both TC and KH are decent enough that they dont drag her through it, the best way to handle a split family is for neither parent to talk badly about the other to the kids just let the kids have a relationship with each parent and let them form their own opinions and keep the BS away from them and out of earshot. Lets hope at least they can do that BUT with the COS influence I wouldnt bet on it.
 
In reading all these posts about COS it's left me wondering with each show I watch if my favorite actors in my favorite shows are into this cult. Is there some sort of celeb. list that says who is or isn't in this cult?

There are a few but not as many as a lot of people think and the ones that are, are not typically heavy hitters in the industry with the exception of Travolta and TC, from there you get down to Kristie Alley, Issac Hayes, Nancy Cartwright (Bart Simpson's voice) Leah Remini (King of Queens) and I think some of the ones from That 70s show were pretty heavy involved.

Lisa Marie is out as of this year, her mom is still in though. The musician BECK is a very dedicated member also.


Here is a list also keep in mind that there are a lot of celebs in that dont openly declare it or advertise it I dont know who all they are but I know Will Smith is studying it and claims to like it but hasnt done anything official yet. They are going after the Beckhams also.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists"]List of Scientologists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Reports were that TC allowed Suri to run the show and do what she wanted, per scientology theories of child development. Katie had a problem with that and treated her like a kid, not a mini adult. This caused a rift between the parents.

Of course none of us know the real story - reports are simply reports and I have no idea what really goes on in these people's lives.

But I have seen a photo or two of TC grinning as he holds a screaming, tantruming Suri. On the contrary, I have seen the mother looking annoyed and frustrated at a tantruming Suri and appearing not to give in. (Gosh, I feel bad for this kid - so exploited by the media and zero privacy).

In any event, I have learned that an intense dichotomy between parenting styles can mess a kid up so badly they become insane. (I have seen in this happen in two of my cases).

I do think something is going on with the little girl. Yes, kids do have an occasional tantrum at 5 or 6, but unless they are quite spoiled, or have parents who do not know how to handle them, it should not be that often. That is behavior one sees more often in 2 and 3 year old kids. But, there are dozens of photos of Suri in the last year throwing toddler-style fits.

Maybe it's the constant media-scrutiny. Maybe it's the tension in the home. Or maybe it was permissive parenting. Signs are that Katie is not going to just allow that behavior anymore (recent trip to pet store and mom did not give in and buy a crying Suri a dog). I hope so because a spoiled child is an unhappy one and I have a feeling that may be part of why we see so many sad Suri pics in the media.

As far as Katie is concerned, since the split, she looks like a different person. She looks stoked.

I think Katie will be safe. She is surrounded by hand-picked body guards. And, she is super-famous. If anything happened to her, the bad publicity the COS is trying to dig out from now will become unpenetrable.

Suri will not be kidnapped. Because that would not serve the COS well. It would end TC's career and likely end the church. There would be no purpose. Yes, the COS is a scary cult, but it's a lucrative business first. They settled that divorce faster than any I have ever heard of or seen. It's not even logical how fast that was settled. I know it was because the COS and TC were getting such bad publicty, they basically wanted to end the *****storm.

As I've said, my biggest fear, assessing the fanaticism of TC and the ruthlessness of the church, as well as my experience in family law and parental alienation and looking at what happened to Nicole Kidman, is TC turning her daughter away from her. This is especially a risk if TC has a tendency to spoil and Katie does not and if TC has a feverish hatred of Katie. Since she must now be an SP and is to be disconnected, and since she basically made a raging fool out of a man with an unending ego, I'm betting he is seething with rage. I very much fear that, with the help of the COS, that rage will find its outlet in a campaign of alienation and brainwashing. I can only hope that Katie, her family, friends and lawyers know enough about the COS that iron clad provisions were put in place to try to prevent that. Otherwise, I see a bleak future for Suri Cruise.

Finally, yeah, Katie was lucky to have such a smart dad. But there is nothing to indicate that the decision to escape wasn't one hundred percent Katie's. Nothing suggests her dad or her parents were the ones who broke their daughter out or worked on her until she saw the light. I give full credit to Katie for realizing what the rest of the public realized - that she had lost her spark, her autonomy and looked like one sad sack robot, following her fanatical husband around like a dog on a leash. I think she took stock of her life and made the decision, all on her own, to get the he!! out. Then she had some quiet, in-person conversations with her father and a trusted friend and together, they all orchestrated her incredible escape. I applaud her for that.


GREAT POST :)
I know that her dad ironed out a prenup that included things about Katie family and scientology... Don’t recall the words, but KH would have the final say on raising the child / religiously. SO YES DADDY had lots to say from the start because Katie was very naive.
I agree that she was the one to come to terms with leaving Tom... But it was all done with the help of daddy. (I want to kiss that man). I am not saying that KH did not have a mind of her own, sure it took some time for her to see clearly...But Daddy did put something’s in motion early on, and at the final stage too.

as for Suri, I agree, the child will need help. This is not a easy situation, the kid not only throws tantrums which many kids do.. She looks miserable. Children get upset and 5 minutes later they forget it and look happy again. I have not seen Suri happy at all.
As for abductions/safety.... You do have a point... but I do not trust them.
even famous people can have a car accident on purpose. Just saying, and NOP I do not trust the Scientologists.
 
There are a few but not as many as a lot of people think and the ones that are, are not typically heavy hitters in the industry with the exception of Travolta and TC, from there you get down to Kristie Alley, Issac Hayes, Nancy Cartwright (Bart Simpson's voice) Leah Remini (King of Queens) and I think some of the ones from That 70s show were pretty heavy involved.

Lisa Marie is out as of this year, her mom is still in though. The musician BECK is a very dedicated member also.


Here is a list also keep in mind that there are a lot of celebs in that dont openly declare it or advertise it I dont know who all they are but I know Will Smith is studying it and claims to like it but hasnt done anything official yet. They are going after the Beckhams also.

List of Scientologists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you Paximus. I am saddened to see a few people whose work I've usually enjoyed. I do feel that knowing they are involved in this cult will color my view of what they do.

I wonder too, if these actors are on shows that run for a while do they try to recruit their costars?
 
You should always speak your mind including tell me to clam it up when I am wrong lol. I have no problem and take no offense at those who see things differently than I do.


ME tell you to clam it up??? NO WAY :nono:
I learn so much from you. You are smart, I rathr talk with you then many.
I know you are also more tolerant and diplomatic then I - so be it.
Another thing to learn :)
 
This whole situation is going to be very hard on everyone involved, if Tom follows COS teaching and there is no evidence he will stop, he cannot have ANY contact at all with Katie as she is now an SP declare (suppressed person) and excommunicated from the Church. Any member in good standing that has ANY contact with her even speaking a single word to her would be "out-ethics" and reported to an ethics officer for that, I am sure they dont treat celebs the same as everyone else but EVERYONE in the Church will be watching this closely because as an SP Katie cannot be in any contact with anyone in the Church for any reason whatsoever. Now since she has SURI this creates a small problem, anyone related to or friendly with an SP who is not a member of the COS is called a PTS (Potential Trouble Source) and you also cannot have any contact with them, Suri will by definition be a PTS as far as TC is concerned. This is why Bella and Conner could have no contact with Nicole and spent all their time with TC, you cannot have one parent in and one parent out and spend time with BOTH parents, it HAS to be one or the other as one of them will be an SP and the kids, if they in the custody of the SP will be declared PTS. I really dont know how DM is gonna handle this but I can tell you I have been watching COS boards very closely and everyone is paying very close attention to this particular issue, there is a very good chance that if TC decides to remain in the COS and a practicing member in good standing who is "in-ethics" AND Katie has custody of Suri, that TC could very well end up having nothing at all to do with Suri, at least until she is of the age of 18 and can decide if she wants to join the COS or not. I know some of you cant imagine this happening but Katie being an SP and having custody of the kid puts TC in a very troubling position wrt the Church and its ethics officers. This is an EXTREMELY serious and enforced matter within the COS as the "tech" (methods, teachings) cannot work (according to the COS) if there are any SPs or PTSs in your life, they all must be removed and no further contact is allowed. Any accidental or intentional contact thereafter must be reported, the person must go through a confessional and truth rundown and explain and report every single detail of the contact each time it happens, if it is something that is happening on a regular basis the person will themselves be declared an SP.


Those outside the church have no idea of the suffocating, overbearing, super controlling, incredibly micro-managing presence the dwarf (DM) and his henchmen inflict on those they 'safeguard'.


WOW... this is NOT going to be easy for 12 more years on Katie...
Because as I have read it... Sure must have her own guard and Nanny every time TC gets to see her.
She is not permitted to go to a scientology party, or anywhere near them...
she will not be permitted near her 1/2 Brother and sister, I guess.
And since they all have that code language, ;) I am sure Katie is not going t want that near Suri. What a mess.

But today TOM is in NYC going our with Suri...
I personally worry....for that child.
 
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