Trail to the Water & Cadaver dog hits

[Whisperer]

Had to be reason TN "sent a family member" and the laundry was thrown in as an excuse. I always assumed RC notified TN about a "problem" and TN was taking care of it till she could get there. TN, IMO, did not arrive at that MH for the first time at 3:40. She would have wanted to know what was going on and see for herself.

 

[elle1919]

lol - I'm probably the airhead, elle. I can't even remember what I was talking about re: chesterp & me having mutual friends.

Oh, wait - I know

LE. She said she knew several local LE.

p.s. Do we still have any maps on here? thx

Hi there LFlorida,

I think the maps might be around here somewhere.

I found something interesting though while I was going through the Haleigh general discussion threads, thought someone else might find it interesting as well.

link here: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-02-10/story/putnam_issues_missing_child_alert

snip~Tracy P lives next to Cummings’ mobile home and said officers with police dogs walked the 200 or so yards from Cummings’ home to her dock on the St. Johns three times

She said investigators asked to search her house and went through every room, including closets.

neighbor said she didn’t know Cummings, his girlfriend or children, who had not lived in the neighborhood long.~ end


Now, I remember how stuck I was on the theory that Haleigh ended up in the river : ( .... S Hardy did say that since the blankets were dragged out onto the ramp it was possible that the bloodhounds were tracking the scent of skin cells that might have been blowing in that direction.

 

[LFlorida]

Hi there LFlorida,

I think the maps might be around here somewhere.

I found something interesting though while I was going through the Haleigh general discussion threads, thought someone else might find it interesting as well.

link here: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-02-10/story/putnam_issues_missing_child_alert

snip~Tracy Phillips lives next to Cummings’ mobile home and said officers with police dogs walked the 200 or so yards from Cummings’ home to her dock on the St. Johns three times

She said investigators asked to search her house and went through every room, including closets.

Phillips said she didn’t know Cummings, his girlfriend or children, who had not lived in the neighborhood long.~ end


Now, I remember how stuck I was on the theory that Haleigh ended up in the river : ( .... S Hardy did say that since the blankets were dragged out onto the ramp it was possible that the bloodhounds were tracking the scent of skin cells that might have been blowing in that direction.

Thx, elle. While watching old videos last night, the search did appear to be primarily focused on the water. I hate to write this, but it seemed like they were looking there for a body - not for clues or a child who wandered off.

I need to go back and check the property that next door neighbor lives on because I didn't think it went to the water. Seems like there was also a video on gainesville.com that showed a neighbor named Nancy who mentioned something similar. She might have been talking about a dock down at the end of Buchanan, though.

 

[elle1919]

Thx, elle. While watching old videos last night, the search did appear to be primarily focused on the water. I hate to write this, but it seemed like they were looking there for a body - not for clues or a child who wandered off.

I need to go back and check the property that next door neighbor lives on because I didn't think it went to the water. Seems like there was also a video on gainesville.com that showed a neighbor named Nancy who mentioned something similar. She might have been talking about a dock down at the end of Buchanan, though.

Not sure what to think about three separate tracks down to the water. I had the impression that the neighbor was explaining that she witnessed the dogs follow the scent down there 3 times. I am certain that witnesses there on the scene probably have tremendous insight into the events that happened that night and days after. After re-orientating myself with some posts from early on, I feel that there is some important details that I might have overlooked considering I was following along with what the media seemed to feel was newsworthy back then. I am of the opinion that there was so much going on and so many different "side stories" it was very easy to get tunnel vision in this case and miss something that could have been right in front of my eyes. But, since I was looking in a different direction at the time, it went unnoticed. JMO

 

[elle1919]

found another article that references the trail to the water and what it might mean. Though no reason is a good reason, being taken away in a boat might refute Haleigh being physically placed into the river.

Article: http://www.gainesville.com/article/...s_treat_Haleigh_s_case_as_an_abduction\&tc=ar

snip~Bowling detailed other efforts to find the girl, from canvassing homes and plans to re-search some residences or get access to others that did not appear occupied to checking on the whereabouts of 44 sex offenders who live within a five-mile radius of the home at 202 Green Lane.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the FBI were assisting in speaking or locating those individuals, some of whom live across the river on the opposite bank from the Hermit’s Cove area. Bowling said some of these people have voluntarily come forward to eliminate themselves as suspects.~ end snip

perhaps the track to the docks could mean Haleigh was taken away on a boat?

 

[LFlorida]

elle, I'm sorry. - The other neighbor "Nancy" was just talking about LE going down there, not the dogs.

lol, I expect y'all to read my mind, not just my words.

I do apologize for any confusion.

 

[lonetraveler]

Okay, what if Ron was in a hurry to get to work and he accidentally hit her with the car, but she wasn't showing any signs of injury? But then why wouldn't you just call 911...... Okay scratch that.

LOL, Bern............You are so right on the scratching part. Ron only calls LE if there is a threat against him or if he is called a name...........Misty, the same. Both had a real problem calling 911 for Haleigh but when either of the two are called a name, or robbed and assaulted, they have no problem calling 911...........:waitasec:

 

[elle1919]

elle, I'm sorry. - The other neighbor "Nancy" was just talking about LE going down there, not the dogs.

lol, I expect y'all to read my mind, not just my words.

I do apologize for any confusion.

I understood. : )

The neighbor I was referencing said that she saw the dogs make the same trip down to the water and go onto her dock, 3 times. Her dock being on the St Johns river, about 200 yards away.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Hi there LFlorida,

I think the maps might be around here somewhere.

I found something interesting though while I was going through the Haleigh general discussion threads, thought someone else might find it interesting as well.

link here: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-02-10/story/putnam_issues_missing_child_alert

snip~Tracy P lives next to Cummings’ mobile home and said officers with police dogs walked the 200 or so yards from Cummings’ home to her dock on the St. Johns three times

She said investigators asked to search her house and went through every room, including closets.

neighbor said she didn’t know Cummings, his girlfriend or children, who had not lived in the neighborhood long.~ end


Now, I remember how stuck I was on the theory that Haleigh ended up in the river : ( .... S Hardy did say that since the blankets were dragged out onto the ramp it was possible that the bloodhounds were tracking the scent of skin cells that might have been blowing in that direction.

Out of curiosity I spent some time in the Putnam Appraiser's site trying to determine which residence with a dock was involved in the above referenced article. There is no residence next to 202 Green that has a dock. I checked the records for all of the properties with docks in the immediate vicinity and none have an owner with the same last name as Tracy P, however she could be renting or the property could have been sold since February.

I did, however, find a "Nancy", as mentioned by LFlorida, who owns the property at 137 Buchanan Circle. All of the properties with a dock are 400 yards +/- from 202 Green. I don't know for sure if the residence at 137 Buchanan is the one being mentioned in the search or not.

 

[LFlorida]

LL Papa, you are officially my hero. Thx for the map and the info.

 

[elle1919]

Out of curiosity I spent some time in the Putnam Appraiser's site trying to determine which residence with a dock was involved in the above referenced article. There is no residence next to 202 Green that has a dock. I checked the records for all of the properties with docks in the immediate vicinity and none have an owner with the same last name as Tracy P, however she could be renting or the property could have been sold since February.

I did, however, find a "Nancy", as mentioned by LFlorida, who owns the property at 137 Buchanan Circle. All of the properties with a dock are 400 yards +/- from 202 Green. I don't know for sure if the residence at 137 Buchanan is the one being mentioned in the search or not.

I'm always appreciative of the time and dedication that you and others put into looking for the truth.

I actually posted the link to the article where Tracy P gives the account of what she witnessed soon after Haleigh went missing. I don't know if what she said about the dogs going to the docks 3 times is true or not, but I can't see why a stranger would misrepresent what they saw that day. You are right though she might have been renting, or could have sold the place, Do you think that it is more likely that the media reports were inaccurate and that is the reason for the confusion?

Honestly that wouldn't be hard to believe considering the way they reported early on. Not much was accurate. jmo

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm always appreciative of the time and dedication that you and others put into looking for the truth.

I actually posted the link to the article where Tracy P gives the account of what she witnessed soon after Haleigh went missing. I don't know if what she said about the dogs going to the docks 3 times is true or not, but I can't see why a stranger would misrepresent what they saw that day. You are right though she might have been renting, or could have sold the place, Do you think that it is more likely that the media reports were inaccurate and that is the reason for the confusion?

Honestly that wouldn't be hard to believe considering the way they reported early on. Not much was accurate. jmo

I understand what you are saying. We all have seen plenty of strangers misrepresenting AND media being inaccurate in this case haven't we? Who knows for sure?

I personally don't put a lot of stock in the dogs in any of what has been reported to us. Like you said, dogs allegedly went down this dock 3 times and IIRC dogs hit on a dumpster 2 or 3 times as well. Also we have the track dog route as described in the PCSO report from that night. That is the only track that we have any specific route information for and it seems a bizarre route of travel to say the least.

I'm not so sure but what these dogs were on some type of residual scent from Haleigh being active in the neighborhood or possibly an airborne scent as mentioned by Sheriff Hardy.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

May I please ask where did the track the dogs followed her scent and where did the cadaver dogs hit and follow?What ponds are around the trailer and the rail road tracks and other ponds in the area?Were any of them drained?I'm thinking of a different theory other than the mondex pond.

 

[kiki the parrot]

"Dogs went to the pond first, then the outbuilding, then followed a route north of the home (assuming the long driveway), left onto Monroe left onto and around Buchanan Circle, right onto Monroe, pass-thru redacted, right onto Buffalo Bluff and ending at railroad."

Trailing dogs tracked blue route along Tyler St [but red=alternate route (btw Green La to Buffalo Bluffs) provided since this portion of dog route redacted so unconfirmed]. Yellow=RR track. Map courtesy JWG. (Area of dumpster cadaver dogs hit is pink rectangle outlined by deb.)

I still wonder if it is significant that the dogs traveled directly to the pond first. Keeping in mind the stretch of Tyler St. in blue is the same route which Haleigh traveled to and from bus, this would leave loop back to pond (and outbuilding), as well as Buchanan St. loop, for which to account.

I encourage anyone interested in this topic to read (or revisit) early Theories thread #1 (and #2) as there is very indepth discussion of this w some valuable contributions by JWG, txsleuth, pennsolveania and many others.

arrot:

 

[Ms Suzanne]

"Dogs went to the pond first, then the outbuilding, then followed a route north of the home (assuming the long driveway), left onto Monroe left onto and around Buchanan Circle, right onto Monroe, pass-thru redacted, right onto Buffalo Bluff and ending at railroad (yellow route)."

Trailing dogs tracked blue route along Tyler St [but red=alternate route (btw Green La to Buffalo Bluffs) provided since this portion of dog route redacted so unconfirmed]. Yellow=RR track. Map courtesy JWG. (Area of dumpster cadaver dogs hit is pink rectangle outlined by deb.)

Keeping in mind the stretch of Tyler St. in blue is the same route which Haleigh traveled to and from bus, this would leave loop back to pond (and outbuilding), as well as Buchanan St. loop, for which to account.

arrot:

What was this outbuilding?How far away was it?

 

[lonetraveler]

I understand what you are saying. We all have seen plenty of strangers misrepresenting AND media being inaccurate in this case haven't we? Who knows for sure?

I personally don't put a lot of stock in the dogs in any of what has been reported to us. Like you said, dogs allegedly went down this dock 3 times and IIRC dogs hit on a dumpster 2 or 3 times as well. Also we have the track dog route as described in the PCSO report from that night. That is the only track that we have any specific route information for and it seems a bizarre route of travel to say the least.

I'm not so sure but what these dogs were on some type of residual scent from Haleigh being active in the neighborhood or possibly an airborne scent as mentioned by Sheriff Hardy.

Weren't the dogs who tracked the scent to the docks, scent dogs and the dogs who alerted to the dumpster, cadaver dogs? Thanks for anyone who can help me with this question. I've been assuming that two different type of scent dogs were used, one tracking dog using scent for the docks and the shed and around the neighborhood and the other, cadaver dogs alerting on the dumpster. Am I correct? TIA.

 

[lonetraveler]

OOPS! My question has already been answered in above posts. I should have read backwards first. Thanks. So, there were two different type of scent dogs used. The first dogs were trailing scent from the bedding and later cadaver dogs alerting to the dumpsters. Thanks y'all for the splendid work you have done.

 

[lil momma]

lone-

ask and you shall receive....lol

 

[lonetraveler]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501724,00.html

This article is about as detailed as any I have read on the dumpster alert. Also has a bit of information at the end on Misty being absent during the time of the dumpster search.

Appears from this article that dogs had been in this particular area, just not cadaver dogs until this time that they alerted.

 

[momuv3angels]

Very early in this case, I think I remember reading about Mistys' response
to the tracking dogs' trail. When questioned about the trail the dogs took concerning Haleigh, did she not say something to the effect of they had all gone for a walk sometime that afternoon? And that was also one of the explanations she used for the childs' footprint in the dirt found on the wooded trail? I'll have to go back and search for this info now. Does anyone recall this "walk" talk from Misty? Please help... my brain is going in circles!
:crosseyed: