Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias - What do you believe?

[nobodyzgirl]

You're so, so right. The media (and, let's face it, us) need material to stay interested and the Anthony family unwittingly gave it to them for months and months.

That is true, and the media still gives them attention and asks them very soft questions when they are on television (which annoys me! LOL)

 

[Chanler]

I was checking out Jodi's picture on her MS and there is an album dedicated to PPL, so it looks like she worked there once upon a time as there are numerous shots of her with people:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...viewPicture&friendID=112614781&albumId=889477

Thanks. I imagine that Jodi must have found her relationship with Travis a bit perplexing. She thought that she had made a major life move and found a mate, a job, and a new religion, all of which were consistent with her "actualize your dream" philosophy. To her, Travis exuded charisma, positive values, and yet vulnerability; a true diamond in the rough. She probably wanted to transition away from her bartending job (as many female bartenders eventually do), so her new career (to the extent that it was) promised her a new life. And for a free-floating spiritual person like her, Mormonism was resonant with new meaning.

She certainly fit the "goal-digger" wife checklist that Travis enumerated on his last blog entry. (To me, the entry seems oddly and naively self-centered, as if the woman he sought was largely compatible not because of herself, but because of her belief in him.) But what Jodi didn't understand was that didn't fit the model of the respectably chaste, only demurely sexy, preferably WASP Mesa Mormon bride-to-be.

 

[indicat]

Thanks. I imagine that Jodi must have found her relationship with Travis a bit perplexing. She thought that she had made a major life move and found a mate, a job, and a new religion, all of which were consistent with her "actualize your dream" philosophy. To her, Travis exuded charisma, positive values, and yet vulnerability; a true diamond in the rough. She probably wanted to transition away from her bartending job (as many female bartenders eventually do), so her new career (to the extent that it was) promised her a new life. And for a free-floating spiritual person like her, Mormonism was resonant with new meaning.

She certainly fit the "goal-digger" wife checklist that Travis enumerated on his last blog entry. (To me, the entry seems oddly and naively self-centered, as if the woman he sought was largely compatible not because of herself, but because of her belief in him.) But what Jodi didn't understand was that didn't fit the model of the respectably chaste, only demurely sexy, preferably WASP Mesa Mormon bride-to-be.

Or maybe Travis knew that she was just molding herself into what she thought he wanted. I've been in relationships where a male will tell me things and do things he thinks will be the ticket to my heart, drinking and smoking all the while saying he would love to marry me one day in the temple. It's a cultural thing around here sometimes. People with low self esteem fall into this trap. I don't think her not molding into the perfect Mormon bride to be was Travis' only problem with her. He knew better then to be in a relationship with her but the ease in which sex was available (and lets face it, every man Mormon or not can be swayed with sex given he puts himself in the wrong place) could have kept the relationship going. It's a terrible thing that he did not get out soon enough, or let himself get in in the first place. Anyone can twist and turn religious beliefs to suit their means. Jodi is sadly mistaken on all fronts of what she believes right now, and I believe she choses what she wants to believe. As a practicing Mormon and member of the LDS church I can tell you, she may want death and people may think that is the easy way out, but I never ever want to meet my maker with blood on my hands.

 

[Chanler]

Or maybe Travis knew that she was just molding herself into what she thought he wanted. I've been in relationships where a male will tell me things and do things he thinks will be the ticket to my heart, drinking and smoking all the while saying he would love to marry me one day in the temple. It's a cultural thing around here sometimes. People with low self esteem fall into this trap. I don't think her not molding into the perfect Mormon bride to be was Travis' only problem with her. He knew better then to be in a relationship with her but the ease in which sex was available (and lets face it, every man Mormon or not can be swayed with sex given he puts himself in the wrong place) could have kept the relationship going. It's a terrible thing that he did not get out soon enough, or let himself get in in the first place. Anyone can twist and turn religious beliefs to suit their means. Jodi is sadly mistaken on all fronts of what she believes right now, and I believe she choses what she wants to believe. As a practicing Mormon and member of the LDS church I can tell you, she may want death and people may think that is the easy way out, but I never ever want to meet my maker with blood on my hands.

Thanks so much, Indicat, for this wonderfully candid post. It could not have been more timely: At this very minute, my girlfriend is having dinner with a friend of ours who is deciding whether to get back together with a loser, perpetually promising boyfriend.

I don't think that Jodi suffered or suffers from low self-esteem and I don't believe that this strong-willed woman was molding herself to fit his every expectation. She didn't have to mold herself; like a demon, she believed in him and their destiny together. His deepest problem with her was not her submissiveness, but the accumulating evidence that she was jealously monitoring his life, destroying, and stealing his things.

I'm not a believer, so I can't address the eerie prospect of Jodi meeting her maker, but I must say I do wonder what she is thinking when the cameras are off and her lawyers are far away.....

 

[indicat]

I think as human nature we tend to see what we WANT to see. Those around us have a clearer vision because they are not emotionally invested the way we are. That would be another reason why we can ignore blatant signals that are right there in front of us. Now that I'm older and wiser *wink wink* I think back to the craziness of what I would let myself believe in the name of "love". I had not ever heard of this case until I started reading this thread today. I get nervous to go on threads that have to do with my religion as people can be very ignorant and I appreciate the contributions that have been made and the intelligent posts.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I think as human nature we tend to see what we WANT to see. Those around us have a clearer vision because they are not emotionally invested the way we are. That would be another reason why we can ignore blatant signals that are right there in front of us. Now that I'm older and wiser *wink wink* I think back to the craziness of what I would let myself believe in the name of "love". I had not ever heard of this case until I started reading this thread today. I get nervous to go on threads that have to do with my religion as people can be very ignorant and I appreciate the contributions that have been made and the intelligent posts.

Hi Indicat,

I agree with you, that it is human nature for people to see what they want to see and they close their eyes to other things, maybe in the hope that if they don't acknowledge it, it will go away, unfortuantely that's not the case. I agree with you, and I'm not mormon, I'm actually Catholic, I do not want to meet my maker with blood on my hands either. I actually believe that the only reason that Jodi became a Mormon was because Travis was, and she thought it would be one more connection that they had together.

 

[indicat]

Hi Indicat,

I agree with you, that it is human nature for people to see what they want to see and they close their eyes to other things, maybe in the hope that if they don't acknowledge it, it will go away, unfortuantely that's not the case. I agree with you, and I'm not mormon, I'm actually Catholic, I do not want to meet my maker with blood on my hands either. I actually believe that the only reason that Jodi became a Mormon was because Travis was, and she thought it would be one more connection that they had together.

I think she would have converted to what ever religion he was. I'm just still amazed at the garbage story she is telling now. It's rather insulting to think we as a society would believe this.

 

[Chanler]

I think as human nature we tend to see what we WANT to see. Those around us have a clearer vision because they are not emotionally invested the way we are. That would be another reason why we can ignore blatant signals that are right there in front of us. Now that I'm older and wiser *wink wink* I think back to the craziness of what I would let myself believe in the name of "love". I had not ever heard of this case until I started reading this thread today. I get nervous to go on threads that have to do with my religion as people can be very ignorant and I appreciate the contributions that have been made and the intelligent posts.

That's so well stated. I've been lucky with relationships; I've never had a bad one; in fact, never one that ended bitterly. I owe a lot of it to growing up with two sisters and seeing what women often have to go through with my gender.

As I wrote, I'm not a believer, but I've always been interested in the history of religions, especially American sects. I do respect the resilience of Mormonism and its strong tradition of affirmativeness and mutual support.

 

[indicat]

Does anybody know more about the pictures that were taken off the card? I know there were pictures of her naked on the bed and him in the shower and then the crime, is there more?

 

[Chanler]

Does anybody know more about the pictures that were taken off the card? I know there were pictures of her naked on the bed and him in the shower and then the crime, is there more?

I think that summarizes it. There were eight pictures in all. The last two, I believe, are blurry images of Travis after the stabbings. They might have been taken from floor level, which might indicate that they were taken accidentally.

 

[indicat]

I think that summarizes it. There were eight pictures in all. The last two, I believe, are blurry images of Travis after the stabbings. They might have been taken from floor level, which might indicate that they were taken accidentally.

Thank you!

 

[Knox]

Hi, nobodyzgirl. Thanks for the link! I think that one of her job links says that she was an employee, but she might have just been picking up bonuses now and then for landing clients.

I believe they met at a PPL event in Vegas. The interview with the brother I linked a page or so back ... He says where they met and what their respective jobs were within PPL. Have to go back and listen, don;t want to misstate the facts.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I believe they met at a PPL event in Vegas. The interview with the brother I linked a page or so back ... He says where they met and what their respective jobs were within PPL. Have to go back and listen, don;t want to misstate the facts.

They did meet at a PPL event, September, 2006. The guy she was going to meet in Utah (it was Utah wasn't it?) after that fateful day, also worked for PPL.

I still wonder if she showed up that day, hoping to change his mind about his upcoming trip with another girl, and that he would decide to take her instead and there was some sort of a fight that happened and she killed him, or if she went there with the intent to murder him.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I found this on the internet - don't know if anyone has read it yet. It's a release statement and probable cause statement. Unfortunately, it's not very clear, though the probable cause statement is still readable.

http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/jodi_arias0911.pdf

After reading this, I've changed my mind about the camera. The bedding was found in the dryer and the camera was found in the washing machine along with several articles of clothings, so it appears to me that Jodi purposely put the camera in the washing machine in an attempt to destroy evidence, which then leads me to believe that in fact she took pictures of Travis dying, though this is just my opinion. It also states in this document the pictures that were found on the memory card.

 

[Knox]

I found this on the internet - don't know if anyone has read it yet. It's a release statement and probable cause statement. Unfortunately, it's not very clear, though the probable cause statement is still readable.

http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/jodi_arias0911.pdf

After reading this, I've changed my mind about the camera. The bedding was found in the dryer and the camera was found in the washing machine along with several articles of clothings, so it appears to me that Jodi purposely put the camera in the washing machine in an attempt to destroy evidence, which then leads me to believe that in fact she took pictures of Travis dying, though this is just my opinion. It also states in this document the pictures that were found on the memory card.

Good find!! I still have a hard time with the camera in the washing machine. It just does not make sense for her to purposely put it through a wash cycle and leave it with the thought the photos would be destroyed. I think it was bundled with whatever articles she threw in the washer, maybe clothing and towels? She had to shower or wipe herself clean after the murder. I'm on the fence about the photos of him dying/dead, both scenerios we have discussed make sense. One thing for sure ... Ms. Arias is guilty in my mind and I don't think the jury will have to deliberate long. I read an article that stated the cost of a Capital Case in Arizona is apprx. $128k, that was in 1999.

 

[Chanler]

They did meet at a PPL event, September, 2006. The guy she was going to meet in Utah (it was Utah wasn't it?) after that fateful day, also worked for PPL.

I still wonder if she showed up that day, hoping to change his mind about his upcoming trip with another girl, and that he would decide to take her instead and there was some sort of a fight that happened and she killed him, or if she went there with the intent to murder him.

Thanks, nobodyzgirl, for the date. Elsewhere, it's listed as "February 2nd, 2007," which is also listed as the day they "officially began dating," whatever that means. According to his friend Sky Hughes as recounted on 48 Hours, it was Travis who introduced himself. Sky describes Jodi as "very articulate, very intelligent," as well as being attractive.

As for the question of immediate motive, for me the core question is: Did she usually carry a gun to the house? From her own claims, it seems not.

 

[Chanler]

I found this on the internet - don't know if anyone has read it yet. It's a release statement and probable cause statement. Unfortunately, it's not very clear, though the probable cause statement is still readable.

http://www.azcentral.com/kpnx/pdf/jodi_arias0911.pdf

After reading this, I've changed my mind about the camera. The bedding was found in the dryer and the camera was found in the washing machine along with several articles of clothings, so it appears to me that Jodi purposely put the camera in the washing machine in an attempt to destroy evidence, which then leads me to believe that in fact she took pictures of Travis dying, though this is just my opinion. It also states in this document the pictures that were found on the memory card.

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks so much. This does change the picture, doesn't it? I was playing with the time sequences laid out by the timeline of the last day:

12:13. last phone call received.
13:40. eight nude photographs, at least some of them on the bed: six of Jodi; two of Travis. (This corrects my previous response that there were eight total photographs.)
[Perhaps the dirty bedding was removed after this; washed; then dried.]
16:19. Some one, presumably Travis, goes on his laptop and does email.
17:22-17:30. Shower photographs. Number not stated.
Sometime soon thereafter. Photographs of Travis dying. Number not stated.

There is nothing here that states that the photos were taken from the floor. It is stated that they show Travis on the bathroom floor.

 

[Chanler]

Good find!! I still have a hard time with the camera in the washing machine. It just does not make sense for her to purposely put it through a wash cycle and leave it with the thought the photos would be destroyed. I think it was bundled with whatever articles she threw in the washer, maybe clothing and towels? She had to shower or wipe herself clean after the murder. I'm on the fence about the photos of him dying/dead, both scenerios we have discussed make sense. One thing for sure ... Ms. Arias is guilty in my mind and I don't think the jury will have to deliberate long. I read an article that stated the cost of a Capital Case in Arizona is apprx. $128k, that was in 1999.

Hi, Knox, your doubts about the camera are really well-stated. What seems equally clear is that whatever Jodi was thinking, she wasn't thinking clearly. It occurred to me that she thought that she could stage a Psycho-type shower attack; kill him with a single bullet; then methodically gather her things (perhaps including pictures) and leave. Instead, this cold-blooded killer was confronted with a very unnerving, life-threatening, bloody scene; an injured man desperately trying to save his own lfe. (The overkill of his injuries speaks to the fierceness of the fight.) I imagine that for some one who obviously values composure rather than spontaneity, it must have been the most terrifying moments of her life.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Hi, Nobodyzgirl, thanks so much. This does change the picture, doesn't it? I was playing with the time sequences laid out by the timeline of the last day:

12:13. last phone call received.
13:40. eight nude photographs, at least some of them on the bed: six of Jodi; two of Travis. (This corrects my previous response that there were eight total photographs.)
[Perhaps the dirty bedding was removed after this; washed; then dried.]
16:19. Some one, presumably Travis, goes on his laptop and does email.
17:22-17:30. Shower photographs. Number not stated.
Sometime soon thereafter. Photographs of Travis dying. Number not stated.

There is nothing here that states that the photos were taken from the floor. It is stated that they show Travis on the bathroom floor.

Thanks Chanler for putting together the timeline for the last few hours of his life. From this timeline he certainly doesn't seem concerned that she is going to kill him, especially that in the middle of it, he's sending e-mails. I wonder if the email somehow set her off - maybe to the girl that he was going away with, or it could very well just have been work related. Who knows, maybe they dowloaded the pictures together and sent them to her personal e-mail account.

I see your point about the Pyscho shower scene, and obviously it didn't go off as planned. I don't know anything about guns, though I do recall she owned a 9mm that went missing (according to her- though if I was a betting person, she likely had a .25 caliber and she lied to throw suspicion off her), he was shot with a .25 caliber. Being stabbed 27 times certainly shows anger, in my opinion, yet she was able to calmly drive away (that's just my opinion - who knows how she really was that day), which is why I'd love to hear from the guy she was going to see, was she calm, excited, jumpy??

The camera is definitely very confusing, did she put it there purposely with the hopes of destroying it, or was it tangled up in something. Also, why wouldn't she have washed the sheets and other articles of clothing together. She was in the house and waited until the sheets at least were finished being washed so that she could put them into the dryer...the more I think about it, the more she freaks me out, trying to be methodical and cleaning up evidence, though doing a poor job of it, since she didn't wipe down the handprint (though she may not have seen that). I can't get a grasp now whether it was an impulse murder or if she had it all planned out in her head.

 

[Knox]

Hi, Knox, your doubts about the camera are really well-stated. What seems equally clear is that whatever Jodi was thinking, she wasn't thinking clearly. It occurred to me that she thought that she could stage a Psycho-type shower attack; kill him with a single bullet; then methodically gather her things (perhaps including pictures) and leave. Instead, this cold-blooded killer was confronted with a very unnerving, life-threatening, bloody scene; an injured man desperately trying to save his own lfe. (The overkill of his injuries speaks to the fierceness of the fight.) I imagine that for some one who obviously values composure rather than spontaneity, it must have been the most terrifying moments of her life.

I agree Chanler, her emotional state, the ugly reality and the thought that at any moment one of the roomates could arrive home, probably contributed to the evidence she neglected to clean-up at the crime scene. Saw another pre-trial conference is set for July 15, maybe we'll see some new details.