Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, I noted some of her "whispering" was at very calculated times and did appear to be an attempt to convey a particular emotion. It was not convincing IMO

I was really just curious about what moocow thought her behavior suggests if not personality disorder or psychopathy.

Me too!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sooooo happy to not know very darn much about psychology!

About time you got here! I saved ya a slice of pizza!

 

[minor4th]

5/18/09 Court minutes;

IT IS ORDERED that Defendant submit to IQ Testing pursuant to A.R.S. §13-703.0 2(B).
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant submit to Competency Screening.

DT later fights taking these tests, but they are taken.

I remember very early in the case 2009? hearing that DT was testing for an insanity claim, but don't see it in the court minutes now.

I think this is a requirement in death penalty cases.

 

[Sleuth13]

On the practical side of things, how would she record the phone call? I assume that Jodi and Travis were using cell phones for the free long distance. Or at least whoever initiated the call placed it on their cell phone. What kind of recording device would you use? Your home answering machine (with a beep every 10 seconds?!) Will the cell phone itself do it? If so, I would assume that it would require one of these newer mega microSD cards to hold the conversation. The large capacity microSD cards (16 GB, 32 GB) were not available in 2007. Please don't tell me she was doing it on a cassette deck with a microphone?

This may have been answered already (not sure bc I'm only 1/2 way through today's thread) but there are a ton of apps out there to download on your cell phone. Texas doesn't require disclosure as long as the one recording is participating. The other person has no clue the conversation is recording. Scary thought, right!?!

 

[Pink Panther]

you know, why must there be a reason for her behavior? Maybe she is just evil. Lots of people with the problems mentioned don't become killers - but just as someone can be born without arms or legs, so can they be born with no conscience. I see her smiling while she lies her way thru interviews - she is just another evil ***** who wanted something she couldn't have.

are we allowed to say ***** here?

This kind of evil has a name. It's abnormal and bizarre and noteworthy; it's called "sociopath" or alternately "psychopath".

moo

 

[Pensfan]

I would really like for her to get evaluated for Axis I disorders. I think she's totally competent to stand trial, and I think she knows what she did was wrong. I think it seems almost like she's playing a game, though. I'm very hesitant to really go into specifics because I'm afraid it will come across as me trying to excuse her actions in some way or another. I think she's sick, but not in a sociopathic kind of way. A lot of symptoms that occur in socio/psychopathy occur in other disorders. There's one in particular that has most of the characteristics she displays down to a tee, and could be easily overlooked.

:twocents:

Axis I disorders include
-Anxiety Disorders
-Mood Disorders
-Eating Disorders
-Psychotic Disorders
-Dissociative Disorders
-Substance Use Disorders

The only behavior that Jodi has exhibited that fits into Axis I was her obsession with Travis and this might have only been Jodi's intense determination to get what she wanted. Perhaps you meant Axis II with the personality disorders?

Penfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[norest4thewicked]

About time you got here! I saved ya a slice of pizza!

Yayyy!!! Cheese only for me! :great:

 

[Carol2]

Someone asked earlier (sorry I don't remember who), about the quote in my signature. I finally stumbled across it at about the 1:56:00 mark in the link below. She tries to 'take it back' as part of her butterfly theory, but.............

She is really fascinating to watch; the wheels are almost visible as she tries to lie her way out. And, imho, Det Flores is very, very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=zCxFA-LPSmc&NR=1

It was me. Thanks so much!

 

[m00c0w]

Spill it

pray tell.....

As I've asserted before, there's a mental illness in particular that tends to stay dormant in some individuals up until enough of a stressor kicks in. We have some here who have experience with this disorder, and even attested to this.

I had completely not considered it before today because I had never seen her in an interview like the 48 Hours one that was linked. All I had to go on was what was reported in the media and on here and could be seen in the trial.

The biggest thing everyone can agree on is a blunted emotional affect. She seems pretty unemotional most of the time. Her speech is usually unemphatic, and her tone never really changes. She also whispers or talks in a low tone a lot of the time; at least in the interviews I've seen.

When she's asked a question, she goes into long explanations. She doesn't really leave out emotional details, as someone suspected of sociopathy might. Instead, she goes into way too much detail. She diverts onto irrelevant points and finally comes back around to the original question and answers it. This is referred to as a thought disorder - circumstantial speech.

There are indicators of improper emotional responses. She was seen "smiling, almost laughing at [Travis's] memorial service". She laughed at points in the 48 hours interview. She would lay her head down in the middle of police interviews. She would stretch and conduct herself bizarrely. She draws in the middle of her court case. She sometimes puts her head down on the table there, too.

There is definitely a history of persecutory beliefs and there is evidence of delusion. Arias went so far as to spy on Travis and allegedly hacked into his Facebook and e-mails because she was afraid he was going to hurt her (emotionally, with a new girl). She had to check up on him. She would listen to his voicemail and read his text messages. As far as delusions go, she snuck into his house multiple times. She obsessed over him. She called him how many times in that subpoenaed period, while he called her twice? She has come up with different stories about threats against her life and being afraid for her family. She retold a story about "ninja assassins". She told a story about receiving a letter in prison saying someone was going to kill her.

There also appeared to be a mild avolition occurring. She bounced from job to job, didn't meet financial obligations, really didn't show any desire to succeed. She was apparently doing poorly enough at PPL that she had Gus helping her.

There was also a study recently done on eye movement. Individuals that are affected by this disorder tend to make erratic motions with their eyes. They can't gaze at the same place for too long, they aren't capable of what's called "smooth pursuit", which is having the eye smoothly follow an object. They have what pretty much amounts to improper saccadic eye movement. If you watch the 48 Hours Interview, a lot of the times her eyes are darting around and not really focusing on anything in particular. It's very clear in the video nurse posted - look at the interviewer as your "control" subject. This is what caught my attention at first. Granted, this is far from scientific and not in a controlled setting necessary to perform such a test but it's there in this capacity.

These are all pretty straightforward and classic symptoms of schizophrenia. In fact, schizophrenics tend to vastly overkill their victims. If you take a look at some of the stabbings carried out by known schizophrenics, there are quite a few eerie similarities to this murder.

Perhaps she's faking it all and was hoping to get a mental insanity ruling. It's a possibility. But from what I've seen so far, it all fits.

:twocents: :moo:

 

[Linda7NJ]

This may have been answered already (not sure bc I'm only 1/2 way through today's thread) but there are a ton of apps out there to download on your cell phone. Texas doesn't require disclosure as long as the one recording is participating. The other person has no clue the conversation is recording. Scary thought, right!?!

It sure is.

Way off topic....I remember back before *69 and caller ID ...random obscene phone calls occurred often....haven't received one since. I almost miss it. Lol just kidding! They were usually some dopey high school kids thinking they were cool...or sexy or something.

 

[borndem]

omg you guys.. watch this video where jodi talks about notes from the ninjas!

Jodi Arias on threats received in Calif. jail - 48 Hours - CBS News

What a bunch of do-wacka-doo-doo. Isn't she just so-o-o smooth?! A smooth operator she is. Ker-rapp. Just like she was talking about the weather, on national TV. And so upbeat and just beaming like a little light bulb. Grrrrrrr.

And of course she tore the notes up. GMAB! Does she think she fooling everybody all the time? She is indeed a circus unto herself.

Like another WS'er said earlier -- she does need to be studied. Little slices of her brain on slides.... A true piece o' work. I hope she is one of a kind, but sadly I know she is not. We've already seen the likes of her before.:furious:

She is a 1st Degree Murderer. Period.

She makes me wanna holler.

 

[Isabelle]

I noted in one of her interviews when she was describing all of this to Flores, she said "So, I showed up..." -- not "I arrived" or "I got there". Maybe nothing, but then again ...

"showed up" as in not invited or not expected!

 

[norest4thewicked]

Axis I disorders include
-Anxiety Disorders
-Mood Disorders
-Eating Disorders
-Psychotic Disorders
-Dissociative Disorders
-Substance Use Disorders

The only behavior that Jodi has exhibited that fits into Axis I was her obsession with Travis and this might have only been Jodi's intense determination to get what she wanted. Perhaps you meant Axis II with the personality disorders?

Penfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

But, how can we know if Jodi has any of the other Axis I disorders? I would think that she could very likely have others, but she hasn't shown them to the public in her interviews, etc.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

MooCow:

I believe they did a MMPI test which would have shown an Axis I (Schizophrenia) diagnosis and from what I gather, there was no mental illness found to prove she was insane or incompetent to stand trial.

Do we know anymore about the tests given to JA to determine sanity pre-trial?

I'm sure her attorney's would have loved to have found the avenue of "murder by reason of insanity" to get JA off the DP.

 

[SkiptomyLu]

Pretty sure that's the fiber that they are claiming was from some kind of "soft rope" Travis gently bound her with. It's a freaking pillow tassel imo

Yes, could be. You can also buy that stuff by the yard from craft, fabric stores, or even Walmart. It is soft, and synthetic material. It would not chafe or leave marks on the skin like regular rope would do if someone were to use it to bind someone with.

It's on the bathroom in a few places: in this whole piece, and as fibers. If you cut it (I've worked with textiles: sew, weave, screen print, etc.), it frays everywhere, and does not keep in it's rope weave, hence the fibers IMO.

When I worked with textiles and didn't know what a material or yarn was, I would do a burn test. Synthetics are petroleum based, and burn or melt and "bead" at the end, so if I ever did use something like this I would have to melt the end a bit to keep the ends from splintering and fraying all over.

It's also hard to tie in basic knots because it's so slippery.

Simple burn test chart: http://www.fabricmartfabrics.com/xcart/Burn-Test-Chart.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

As I've asserted before, there's a mental illness in particular that tends to stay dormant in some individuals up until enough of a stressor kicks in. We have some here who have experience with this disorder, and even attested to this.

I had completely not considered it before today because I had never seen her in an interview like the 48 Hours one that was linked. All I had to go on was what was reported in the media and on here and could be seen in the trial.

The biggest thing everyone can agree on is a blunted emotional affect. She seems pretty unemotional most of the time. Her speech is usually unemphatic, and her tone never really changes. She also whispers or talks in a low tone a lot of the time; at least in the interviews I've seen.

When she's asked a question, she goes into long explanations. She doesn't really leave out emotional details, as someone suspected of sociopathy might. Instead, she goes into way too much detail. She diverts onto irrelevant points and finally comes back around to the original question and answers it. This is referred to as a thought disorder - circumstantial speech.

There are indicators of improper emotional responses. She was seen "smiling, almost laughing at [Travis's] memorial service". She laughed at points in the 48 hours interview. She would lay her head down in the middle of police interviews. She would stretch and conduct herself bizarrely. She draws in the middle of her court case. She sometimes puts her head down on the table there, too.

There is definitely a history of persecutory beliefs and there is evidence of delusion. Arias went so far as to spy on Travis and allegedly hacked into his Facebook and e-mails because she was afraid he was going to hurt her (emotionally, with a new girl). She had to check up on him. She would listen to his voicemail and read his text messages. As far as delusions go, she snuck into his house multiple times. She obsessed over him. She called him how many times in that subpoenaed period, while he called her twice? She has come up with different stories about threats against her life and being afraid for her family. She retold a story about "ninja assassins". She told a story about receiving a letter in prison saying someone was going to kill her.

There also appeared to be a mild avolition occurring. She bounced from job to job, didn't meet financial obligations, really didn't show any desire to succeed. She was apparently doing poorly enough at PPL that she had Gus helping her.

There was also a study recently done on eye movement. Individuals that are affected by this disorder tend to make erratic motions with their eyes. They can't gaze at the same place for too long, they aren't capable of what's called "smooth pursuit", which is having the eye smoothly follow an object. They have what pretty much amounts to improper saccadic eye movement. If you watch the 48 Hours Interview, a lot of the times her eyes are darting around and not really focusing on anything in particular. It's very clear in the video nurse posted - look at the interviewer as your "control" subject. This is what caught my attention at first. Granted, this is far from scientific and not in a controlled setting necessary to perform such a test but it's there in this capacity.

These are all pretty straightforward and classic symptoms of schizophrenia. In fact, schizophrenics tend to vastly overkill their victims. If you take a look at some of the stabbings carried out by known schizophrenics, there are quite a few eerie similarities to this murder.

Perhaps she's faking it all and was hoping to get a mental insanity ruling. It's a possibility. But from what I've seen so far, it all fits.

:twocents: :moo:

Nah....

IMO

 

[borndem]

I'm perfectly comfortable diagnosing her here on Websleuths. I am under no professional constraints. I just need slap an IMO and everything is great

Stick around, as I'm going to find her guilty of first degree murder and sentence her to die by lethal injection.

All IMO

You go, Girl!!

 

[Sleuth13]

Remember after the horrible photos of TA and the crime scene people talked about how she kept sneaking looks. Right after that, I heard a 'expert' on one of the talk shows, say she still wants to devour/consume him. Even after she killed him.

I don't remember the exact wording but it made me skin crawl.

I don't doubt it! I was kinda surprised she didn't cut him up and take a piece with her!! I recently saw some show on the ID channel where this chic actually deep fried some of her bf's body parts after murdering him and ate them for dinner!!!

 

[polleypockets]

whomever just asked upstream about the opening statements: no I have not been able to find the first part of the state's opening

this is the only thing i have found so far
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7EN8uoD-Q"]Jodi Arias Trial Day 1 (Audio Only) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, could be. You can also buy that stuff by the yard from craft, fabric stores, or even Walmart. It is soft, and synthetic material. It would not chafe or leave marks on the skin like regular rope would do if someone were to use it to bind someone with.

It's on the bathroom in a few places: in this whole piece, and as fibers. If you cut it (I've worked with textiles: sew, weave, screen print, etc.), it frays everywhere, and does not keep in it's rope weave, hence the fibers IMO.

And she was so sweet to remove the rope and the ky from the scene because she didn't want to tarnish Travis's memory and didn't want everyone to know what a monster he was. Thoughtful huh?