UK - Lucy Letby - Post-Conviction Statutory Inquiry

[Tortoise]

Dr Gibbs denied telling the mother of Child I that her baby needed to have a post-mortem in order to clear the hospital of wrongdoing.

He said he “was sure the mother” thought he said that “so he was not going to argue with her”, but said he would never tell the family of a patient that they were being forced into having a post-mortem.

BBM

I thought this was a little odd when I read it yesterday and so I've checked the transcript. This reporting [by the Telegraph] is erroneous, and it bears no semblance to what Dr Gibbs said.

Pages 76 - 78. 01/10/2024 – Transcript of Week 4 Day 2 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

"Now, she also said I forced her into having a postmortem. I can understand why she felt like that. In the circumstances where a death is unexplained and you need to refer the death to the Coroner, you don't -- parental consent doesn't come into it as far as I understand and postmortem has to take place if the Coroner agrees and that's what I was trying to tell the Mother. It's -- one of the worst things as a paediatrician is those occasions when you have to deal with a parent who's just lost their baby or child and they are in utter despair and it is very difficult to talk about the child or baby having a postmortem in those circumstances. I think most parents or some parents would hate me for bringing that subject up."

 

[Tortoise]

Dr Lambie said she was also concerned about a “very, very unusual incident” involving another infant that happened up to a fortnight before the death of Child A.
She said: “It was something I have never experienced before or since. I was already quite anxious going into Child A and B because I had that particular unusual event.”
The incident did not feature in Letby’s criminal case but Dr Lambie had made a statement to police about the matter, the inquiry was told.

Nurses checked rotas for ‘common denominator’, Letby inquiry hears

Lucy Letby is serving 15 whole-life orders after she was convicted of murdering seven infants and attempting to murder seven others.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Also at the inquiry, Dr Huw Mayberry, who worked alongside Letby in 2016 as a registrar, told the inquiry he did not believe CCTV cameras would have stopped her from harming infants.

He said: "I'm not sure it would have dealt with a lot of the ways in which she killed and it may have given false reassurance that things were right."

It would be "hard to tell" from CCTV that someone was injecting air into babies' bloodstreams, he said.

Nurses who worked with Lucy Letby checked rotas for 'common denominator' after baby deaths, inquiry hears

Dr Rachel Lambie, who was a trainee doctor at the Countess of Chester Hospital, said the idea that a member of staff had been killing babies had become part of nurses' "thought processes" by September 2015.

news.sky.com

 

[Jazmania]

BBM

I thought this was a little odd when I read it yesterday and so I've checked the transcript. This reporting [by the Telegraph] is erroneous, and it bears no semblance to what Dr Gibbs said.

Pages 76 - 78. 01/10/2024 – Transcript of Week 4 Day 2 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

"Now, she also said I forced her into having a postmortem. I can understand why she felt like that. In the circumstances where a death is unexplained and you need to refer the death to the Coroner, you don't -- parental consent doesn't come into it as far as I understand and postmortem has to take place if the Coroner agrees and that's what I was trying to tell the Mother. It's -- one of the worst things as a paediatrician is those occasions when you have to deal with a parent who's just lost their baby or child and they are in utter despair and it is very difficult to talk about the child or baby having a postmortem in those circumstances. I think most parents or some parents would hate me for bringing that subject up."

This seems to be a common theme. Most recent reports by the mainstream media of what has been said in the trial and inquiry actually bear little resemblence to what has actually been said in the trial and inquiry.

 

[JosieJo]

Hospital bosses had 'already made up their mind' that Lucy Letby couldn't be responsible for killing babies before any proper investigation had been carried out, a senior doctor said today.

Dr Murthy Saladi told the public inquiry managers didn't want to call in police because the Countess of Chester Hospital would end up 'in the media spotlight' and mothers would be deterred from having their babies there.

Lucy Letby's bosses had 'made up their mind' she wasn't killing babies

Dr Murthy Saladi told the public inquiry managers didn't want to call in police because the Countess of Chester Hospital would end up 'in the media spotlight' .

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CatsnChickens]

This is quite worrying suggests huge cover up planned

Lucy Letby hospital NHS trust deleted documents, tribunal told

The ex-chief executive of the hospital trust where Lucy Letby worked is suing it at a tribunal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Marantz4250b]

Today is three years to the day since LL entered her "not guilty" pleas at the start of her trial.

I remember it well - I was in the bar at Newcastle train station when it was on the news.

 

[Parker Knoll]

IIRC you were in your “ betting my house “ phase M !

 

[Tortoise]

Monday 7 October	Dr ZA – Consultant Paediatrician Dr V – Consultant Paediatrician Dr U – Consultant Registrar
Tuesday 8 October	Dr McCormack – Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist Dr McGuigan – Consultant Paediatrician Dr Jameson – Chair, Medical Staff Committee Dr Tighe – Chair, BMA Local Negotiating Committee Chair
Wednesday 9 October	Consultant Clinical Scientists, Occupational Dr Milan – Consultant Clinical Scientist Dr Bowles – Consultant Clinical Scientist Kathryn de Beger – Occupational Health Practitioner Inquiry Legal Team reading in/summarising of evidence from doctors who are not being called.
Thursday 10 October	Melanie Taylor – Registered Nurse Ashleigh Hudson – Registered Nurse Kathryn Percival-Calderbank – Registered Nurse Kate Bissell – Registered Nurse Elizabeth Marshall – Neonatal Assistant

Week 5​

Witness Timetable | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk

Look who's up on Monday.

 

[iamshadow21]

Monday 7 October	Dr ZA – Consultant Paediatrician Dr V – Consultant Paediatrician Dr U – Consultant Registrar
Tuesday 8 October	Dr McCormack – Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist Dr McGuigan – Consultant Paediatrician Dr Jameson – Chair, Medical Staff Committee Dr Tighe – Chair, BMA Local Negotiating Committee Chair
Wednesday 9 October	Consultant Clinical Scientists, Occupational Dr Milan – Consultant Clinical Scientist Dr Bowles – Consultant Clinical Scientist Kathryn de Beger – Occupational Health Practitioner Inquiry Legal Team reading in/summarising of evidence from doctors who are not being called.
Thursday 10 October	Melanie Taylor – Registered Nurse Ashleigh Hudson – Registered Nurse Kathryn Percival-Calderbank – Registered Nurse Kate Bissell – Registered Nurse Elizabeth Marshall – Neonatal Assistant

Week 5​

Witness Timetable | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk

Look who's up on Monday.

Going to be interesting.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I’m rooting for the nurses on Thursday.
What an utter nightmare it has been for them also.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Not my breakdown but taken from the excellent Reddit thread.
It’s a helpful reminder as this as ever is complicated to say the least.

Dr. ZA: The consultant who said that Child E's death was NEC and that a post-mortem would be unlikely to tell the parents anything more, and who assumed the blood test results for Child F were a lab error


Dr. U: Known at trial as Dr. A, the married doctor who Letby loved, and whose attention was considered a motive for her murders of 0 and P and her alleged attacks on N (he was the first to fail at intubating N) and Q


Dr. McCormack: The beloved (according to parents in this inquiry, at least) obstetrician who said in May 2016 "You are harbouring a murderer" Dr. Milan: the Liverpool clinical biologist who performed the lab test on Child F's blood


Kathryn de Beger: The occupational therapist whose name appears on Letby's scribbled notes, and who allegedly advised her to put her thoughts on paper


Melanie Taylor: Suggested by Letby to be responsible for an air embolism in Child A, witnessed Letby cotside for Child C, cared for Child E in room 1 with Lucy Letby the night before Letby murdered him, noticed Child O's decline


Ashleigh Hudson: Child I's designated nurse on the October 13-14 "seeing in the dark" incident, and the night that Letby murdered her Kathryn Percival-Calderbank: involved on the night Child D was murdered, and the nurse to whom Letby said that working in lower-acuity rooms was boring


Elizabeth Marshall: On shift for the murders of Children A, C, and D

 

[Highlandspring]

Today is three years to the day since LL entered her "not guilty" pleas at the start of her trial.

I remember it well - I was in the bar at Newcastle train station when it was on the news.

It may seem like it, but it's only 2.

 

[Marantz4250b]

IIRC you were in your “ betting my house “ phase M !

Erm....well....least said soonest mended, as the saying goes.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It may seem like it, but it's only 2.

Sure? I distinctly recall the date and where I was. Maybe these were pleas given to the magistrates court, rather than the start of the actual Crown Court trial?

 

[Parker Knoll]

It feels like we have been trapped here for decades tbh.

 

[Tortoise]

Well worth the listen, they use actual recordings of the paediatricians' evidence to the Inquiry.

The first minute or two is ads if you want to skip forward.

 

[katydid23]

So tomorrow morning we are back?

 

[Parker Knoll]

Yes - back tomorrow.

 

[Tortoise]

One of the Inquiry exhibits presented during the evidence of Dr Susie Holt last Thursday (3rd Oct) was a review of the mortality data for the NNU up to June 2016, presented at a meeting with management including Tony Chambers in July 2016. (link below)

I thought I would summarise the key data here - (it includes the death of Baby K after transfer to another hospital)

Total NNU deaths per year:

2010 - 1
2011 - 3
2012 - 3
2013 - 2
2014 - 3
2015 - 8 (LL convicted of the murder of A, C, D, E, I = 5)
2016 - 5 (as at Jun 2016) (LL convicted of murder of O, P, and attempt murder of K - also incl. in deaths total = 3)

Dates of all deaths in 2015/2016:

8 Jun 2015 (A)
14 Jun 2015 (C)
22 Jun 2015 (D)
4 Aug 2015 (E)
4 Sep 2015
27 Sep 2015
23 Oct 2015 (I)
13 Dec 2015

8 Jan 2016
18 Feb 2016 (K)
6 Mar 2016
23 Jun 2016 (O)
24 Jun 2016 (P)

INQ0003492 – Pages 1 – 3 of Draft report by the Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust titled Position Paper – Neonatal Unit Mortality 2013-2016, dated July 2016 | The Thirlwall Inquiry

Examining the events at the Countess of Chester Hospital and their implications following the trial, and subsequent convictions, of former neonatal nurse Lucy Letby of murder and attempted murder of babies at the hospital.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk

There were no deaths in the 6 months after LL was removed from the ward. Link - at 29 minutes in the Mail Inquiry video: