Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[human]

They can say what they want in opening statements but it does not guarantee they will be able to prove it. Many defense attorneys make statements in opening they fail to prove during the trial. It's a way to get it in without getting it in. It can't be that difficult for the judge to rule. My guess is the judge wants case law from both sides to show how defense can get it in or prosecution is justified in keeping it out. But that is just a guess. She is claiming abuse but if it's just him talking about sex fantasies how in the world does that prove abuse. Plus why would she tape him? Did she know what he was going to say? Did she set him up by something she said in a previous telephone call? Was the recording the whole call or just a portion? These may be the issues the judge has to consider. What was HER motive for taping it. It may not have been a call from hello until goodbye and that could be part of the problem. What is missing could be what is holding this recording from being ruled on. jmo

I think she liked to record him and listen to him over and over again. She was obsessed with him

 

[PASA]

I am curious as to how Jodie (a petite woman) could drag a 190 pound man thru the hallway and into the shower. Any thoughts?

Blood and water on the tile floor made it like a slip-n-slide. Plus adrenaline from her rage.

HTH

MOO, IMHO.

 

[Madeleine74]

Her insistence on dragging him back down the hall and then into the shower helped nail her. Not that she wouldn't have been caught anyway, since she was the obvious suspect on everyone's mind, but since she locked his BR door, I'm not sure why she felt compelled to get him back into the shower. I realize she intended to have a clean crime scene, but obviously it didn't go that way. She continued to add to the evidence and in the end it wasn't like anyone sauntered into his BR anyway--the doors were locked.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Even though she has not ruled yet, the call is already in and was read to the Jury. So it is in. I realize opening statements are not "evidence" but as they say "that bell was rung" When the Jury deliberates I think they can only see evidence that was presented. (so not opening statements right? Could they ask to have that read to them or no?)

It's possible the reason the judge has not ruled yet is because it was an interstate call and the federal laws also apply. In any case the law is whichever state is the most restrictive, that is the law you must obey. So if she had told TA she was recording the conversation it would have been fine. Because she did not the recording was illegal in California and that is the law that has to be obeyed. That was my understanding from what you posted and was posted earlier in the thread. jmo

 

[Madeleine74]

I rewatched that 48 Hours show posted upstream -- the one with the missing woman and her live-in boyfriend was convicted. I saw it when it first aired last year or so and saw it again when it re-aired a few months ago, but didn't notice our own Mr. Juan Martinez! How remiss of me!

You know you've got it bad when the voice of a snarky/sarcastic/belligerent pitbull of a state prosecutor has you all atwitter.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/data:image/jpeg;,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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/data:image/png;,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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/data:image/png;,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABgAAAAYCAIAAABvFaqvAAAE1UlEQVQ4jZ2VbUxTZxTH73NvSwulRVDGYjSLLkwERXhaNExeREWGiuALYDbJssVtUbcPuixRHOrcojK1sAhE40AGSIpiSmml1ZbS1lFnJ66+DIgvdUOgVRDxJaByn+fsQyu+DLdlJ/8vN8/J75x7n/M/l4GXgsL/DeZ1Bx6X067artmXpS2aryuer1WmaItX2FXbe2+0/VdQT4ddvWuRtWpW7/WskbsZ1LOQeNKIJ3VkMLOva5X92Gz1ngXd7T//E4gS3lb9tb408tHtTP7KO7TFjxrRS7KI+I7pw/dymstjWut2AaVjgSg1lKx16pMB1o3cXcK3R5Bfw8CE/i5qFpKe5DZt4umDG8YA2Wp3tGkTyIPlQNeS9mn8uQlg8wMLBybWh7BwYBNCsw9H/px7QZf4i3rfKIh6v8vJogjak/j4FPfU4g8tqOG7gJVJ0s+WBLRXy8CMXKrADZni5Qmy2gIJmFneJBjWI9qXbjwUfafr99GO6PFvkgZ6snMXSNMCZNmTxtUUTFzHhZ0XRTWJpyeEBLo1srlhEo0o4rwo6ivhxIrNYaumBC+VBGUkh/b15Gn3ZvlA3Z1nbdUxewpmlAjeAi7uKRf3oWT8QxYDg4HBJ4Thm/OmVgveBgYDwo8Rzg0KGeIUwMXVCqbmb40/c1TucTkZALBVbXHfWLkkesITTkERBgY7hTOeMLMogymDu7jo1QsntrMzvY9PUOwFQRQgTBlMWHlG+JvuGzl21Q4GANS7F5H7y/LC3wBWQb0ZCPNIThkMDL7KRe/8ZJpDEAVIThlMER5hsTcNOMUHk0L5hyt1ymUMAGj2xVNPyqYM/14uxluKomepSH5IMsWlkv0QPNkH8grFAsKDHF6fLIWBdO3+dxkA0Cjn0FtJdzSiTVPG97OxXhYwGJDcyc2s3RgMVq4hX9YqjAQkp89O73N44+TQ7no/4k7VKOcwANC4fx71pIERPTKIy/NCTOIInlUAg68JZhWuCgIrByYEVkHJx0GXuZnAYMIqrOKIwzmh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[LambChop]

Her insistence on dragging him back down the hall and then into the shower helped nail her. Not that she wouldn't have been caught anyway, since she was the obvious suspect on everyone's mind, but since she locked his BR door, I'm not sure why she felt compelled to get him back into the shower. I realize she intended to have a clean crime scene, but obviously it didn't go that way. She continued to add to the evidence and in the end it wasn't like anyone sauntered into his BR anyway--the doors were locked.

She also locked the front door, which I think she did so she would know someone was coming in because someone entering would have to use the garage door and that makes a lot of noise. I imagine she locked his bedroom door to give her time to get out of AZ and to Utah before his body was discovered. I think she put him in the shower to wash off her blood from his body. She cut her hand and had to have known she was bleeding onto him as she continued to stab him as he made his way down the hallway. The shower was clean and just putting him in there would have caused blood splatter on the would walls, I think. Except for the floor, the shower stall is clean of blood splatter so it appears she wanted any traces of her off his body when it was discovered. jmo

 

[amyfarrahfowler]

We were staying somewhere and we wanted to wash the pillows. They had shredded foam in them.

What a mess. No way to clean it up without an incredible amount of work, and that was when they exploded in a washing machine.

The volume greatly increases as well.

OMG! ROFLMAO!:floorlaugh: Guess I will tuck THAT lesson away for future reference. Thanks!

 

[LambChop]

I rewatched that 48 Hours show posted upstream -- the one with the missing woman and her live-in boyfriend was convicted. I saw it when it first aired last year or so and saw it again when it re-aired a few months ago, but didn't notice our own Mr. Juan Martinez! How remiss of me!

You know you've got it bad when the voice of a snarky/sarcastic/belligerent pitbull of a state prosecutor has you all atwitter.

I think there is something far more attractive in a man who is intelligent, dresses professionally, has his ducks-in-a-row and is passionate in what he is going after. He is clearly fighting for Travis. He is also very quick and just watching him sit there when defense is up you can see the wheels turning. He pays attention and has the amazing ability to get to the point and makes it short and sweet. Bam, with a gotcha. I love watching him. jmo

 

[StephanieHartPI]

This photo depicts the direction he would be and she would be for the bullet to follow the path the medical examiner describes. As I speculated, at any moment such as this when he knew she had a camera so he was not in any "defensive" mode, he was allowing her to take pictures, unbeknownst to him she could walk up and this position is where bullet enters skull while he looks down, and exits his left cheek (any blood or spatter would go down to the floor of the shower as it exited the left cheek. Easy to just wash down.

((In addition to the multiple knife wounds, Alexander was also shot with a .25 semi-automatic gun and the bullet "passed down through the skull through the face and downward to the left and terminates in the left cheek.))

BBM

http://ksaz.images.worldnow.com/images/20586089_BG2.jpg

(unless they found the shell casing elsewhere if there was one and they knew it was from that shot. She could have picked that up and dropped it a few times too)

 

[amyfarrahfowler]

This is really long and I am not done reading it, but it is REALLY GOOD!

ITA!:seeya:

just wondering, tho, if it HAS an end to ALLOW a person to ever finish? LOL.
Has anyone kept going long enough to find the end? Just curious...
(i'd have kept reading to find out myself, but my laptop crashed last night and now that it's back up i am too tired and afraid to risk being entranced by the link, again, to find out)

 

[LambChop]

Even though she has not ruled yet, the call is already in and was read to the Jury. So it is in. I realize opening statements are not "evidence" but as they say "that bell was rung" When the Jury deliberates I think they can only see evidence that was presented. (so not opening statements right? Could they ask to have that read to them or no?)

An opening statement is not evidence. It's just a statement and not necessarily fact (as we have seen in a recent Florida case). Juries are only permitted to consider evidence. But, as it has been pointed out many, many times you cannot unring the bell. So the jury has heard it and if it does not get in it is still in their memory and could color their decisions and I believe that is why it was done. To me, and I know others feel the same, opening statements should not include anything specific if it has not been ruled on yet by the judge. It is misleading the jury to have them believe this recording has evidence of Travis admitting he abused her when it does not. Not sure what the point would be. Jodi will have a hard time saying it was emotional because of the sex unless she was claiming she wanted sex with him and he just would not give in. That's not likely to happen. Her history shows she was very comfortable having sex with other men or indicating she would have no problem with it. She was ready to move on to RB, no problem and jumped right on him. He admits she was the aggressor. So the State has already laid the foundation that TA using her for sex only is not grounds for emotional abuse because she was comfortable with sex and could easily move on to others. Her reason for not moving on had to do with TA and her willingness to not let him go and that probably will be the State's rebuttal.

My guess is we have only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of Jodi's past and defense knows it. Funny how in the interrogation clips she tells Flores she's worried about her reputation. Flores tells her that is the least of your worries. jmo

 

[sumbunny]

Melatonin can work depending on the nature and severity of your insomnia. It is definitely worth trying since it is natural, non-addictive and over-the-counter.

Gaba-T is also a great alternative for getting a good nights sleep naturally.

 

[Boodles]

I think there is something far more attractive in a man who is intelligent, dresses professionally, has his ducks-in-a-row and is passionate in what he is going after. He is clearly fighting for Travis. He is also very quick and just watching him sit there when defense is up you can see the wheels turning. He pays attention and has the amazing ability to get to the point and makes it short and sweet. Bam, with a gotcha. I love watching him. jmo

Agree. Juan exudes confidence. You just know that when he speaks, he will make a point and hit his target. And wow, can that man think on his feet. He's just amazing. What skill and talent.

The defense, esp Nurmi, does not sound confident in comparison. It's a drag having to listen to and watch them struggle to formulate their thoughts. I hate the friendly exchanges Nurmi tries to make, as though they matter one iota. To me, he just wastes time. Then it takes both of them 5 minutes to ask a question that Juan could have spit out in 10 seconds.

However, if Juan gets to cross examine JA, I will be fascinated by the style he chooses to do it. If he gets hostilely aggressive and attacks her it could backfire if even one member of the jury has some compassion for her. I read about how many want him to chew her up and spit her out, but I don't think that would be a good approach in general, maybe just at certain points as warranted.

I really think she has to testify unless there are explicit emails depicting a pattern of abuse with great detail, the chances of which are slim to none, IMO. (And if there are such emails, I doubt they will be admitted.). But if there was abuse, (be it emotional, physical, whatever), no one else is going to know it or come forward about it. (And yes, I'm aware that no one here believes TA was in any way abusive. But an impartial juror will be waiting to hear what the other side offers as a narrative to substantiate her 'self-defense' claim.)

I haven't seen it discussed here, but I heard somewhere (don't recall where), that her defense will be some sort of PTSD trigger response thing.

I really wish they would work out a LWOP plea deal.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

An opening statement is not evidence. It's just a statement and not necessarily fact (as we have seen in a recent Florida case). Juries are only permitted to consider evidence. But, as it has been pointed out many, many times you cannot unring the bell. So the jury has heard it and if it does not get in it is still in their memory and could color their decisions and I believe that is why it was done. To me, and I know others feel the same, opening statements should not include anything specific if it has not been ruled on yet by the judge. It is misleading the jury to have them believe this recording has evidence of Travis admitting he abused her when it does not. Not sure what the point would be. Jodi will have a hard time saying it was emotional because of the sex unless she was claiming she wanted sex with him and he just would not give in. That's not likely to happen. Her history shows she was very comfortable having sex with other men or indicating she would have no problem with it. She was ready to move on to RB, no problem and jumped right on him. He admits she was the aggressor. So the State has already laid the foundation that TA using her for sex only is not grounds for emotional abuse because she was comfortable with sex and could easily move on to others. Her reason for not moving on had to do with TA and her willingness to not let him go and that probably will be the State's rebuttal.

My guess is we have only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of Jodi's past and defense knows it. Funny how in the interrogation clips she tells Flores she's worried about her reputation. Flores tells her that is the least of your worries. jmo

Lamb, I am appreciating the discussion between you and Stephanie in helping me to understand the legitimacy of this call. IMO Laws need to be made and enforced to limit the contents of the OS. I would think this would be unfair prejudice weather it is "evidence" or not as you pointed out.
This is the second trial in RECENT memory that this stunt has been pulled, and it infuriates me.

 

[EldonJackson]

Yes, she felt like Travis was going to hurt her. This is why she constantly spied on him and behaved abnormally in that regard.


Stories about ninja assassins and death threat letters and clearly and continually obsessing over a man that obviously doesn't want you doesn't count as delusional?


It is possible for schizophrenics to have a blunted affect 95% of the time and still express inappropriate emotions like that occasionally.


In your opinion. Nearly every interview she's given has evidenced this with her winding stories; even those that aren't relevant to lies.


I said that she might have displayed mild avolition. Curious question - do all mental health disorders start out the same, symptomatically? Or is each individual case different? Might there be outliers? I've honestly never heard someone say that "No, x starts out this way." in this field.


I indicated this was my opinion, and as others have demonstrated, that's all I have to do.

All :moo:

I agree with you Moo.

I wish the discussion on this thread would allow honest speculation about why she did this. She did it, and I would like to know why. It is (I hope) a given that her actions are not justified by any motive. So every time someone speculates, please step off of the soap box and don't point out that what she did was wrong. We all agree. Let's encourage discussion of why she did this.

 

[kkdj]

The duct tape tight on travis's arm......
The timing of it being there doesn't make sense to me. If it is for workout purpose, he was naked, either just after sex or just waking up. So why would that be on him at that time? It sure doesn't look comfortable either as it looks very tight!

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

They have had witnesses on the stand to testify to her strength. I am a five foot Cherokee, 115 pounds, and trust me, I'm a lot stronger than I look. Before we had our fireplace converted to gas, I could chop wood with the best of them. My SIL always told me, I was meant to be a pioneer woman. :floorlaugh:

I am hoping that the Jury will test out just how strong JA is. As thorough as this jury is, I can see them, testing the dragging theory out :great:

:moo:

 

[neesaki]

The Stranger Beside Me - 48 Hours - CBS News

I am watching this 48 hours (brian stuart case) and our guy Juan Martinez was the prosecutor and is in this video!

(and I just saw the SEAL)


oh.. and he takes the stand in this case (good to see Juan in action!)

I just watched this. I really like JM.

 

[Sleuth13]

Thank you! I hadn't seen that one.

If you want more Juan here's another case he prosecuted.

48Hours|Mystery - Deadly Prophecy

Deadly Prophecy - 48 Hours - CBS News

Thanks!! I'm on my phone now but will watch when I get home this afternoon!!

 

[Karmady]

I'm not talking about being an ahole. It's scary for all sorts of reasons!! We had a client who had taped 100s of hours of calls from his golf pro to co-workers, neighbors and people from church, etc, etc. I got the daunting task to listen to all of them and pick out what was relevant for our lawsuit -- some people talked about very personal things from health issues to financial problems to family drama, etc and to this day they have no clue I heard it all!!! I felt like I was invading their privacy!!

Just catching up so this is probably way back in the thread by now, but I wanted to clarify that this isn't what's allowed in Arizona. A third person can't legally tape other peoples' calls. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax. I was referring to one party to a phone call recording the call without the other party's knowledge or permission. That's what's allowed in AZ but not in Cali.