trial day 31: the defense continues it's case in chief #88

[UKgirl]

Like I said, I missed yesterday's testimony (for which I should be grateful, I understand). What I'm getting from it is: Jodi got PTSD from brutally killing somebody. The PTSD is what is now causing her memory fognesia(TM). Is that right?

It seems to me that we have gotten several different stories of the fog. On direct exam. with Nurmi, what I got from what she was saying,she wasn't claiming to be in a fog during the killing itself. The fog actually descended afterwards: when she got out of the car in the desert she realized she couldn't remember what had happened. This actually seemed pretty clever, since it accounts for the actions she took cleaning up afterwards, etc., when she clearly wasn't in a fog, but now she's got a reason why she can't remember anything.

During the cross exam from JM, I thought she repeated this claim. Then on cross exam by JM after the juror questions, she was saying that she didn't know when the fog descended and sort of implied that it might have occurred during the killing itself.

Then we have this "expert" yesterday who seems to be saying that she has PTSD from the killing which is "blocking" her memories of the killing.

All this seems so complicated and even contradictory, if I was a juror I'd be ignoring all if it. JMO

Just as an aside, I've seen several people questioning why she didn't get treatment for this alleged PTSD. Since she was arrested so soon after the murder, I can see why she didn't seek treatment on the outside. Wouldn't you think, though, that Sheriff Joe, for all his faults, would not really want someone with untreated PTSD in the general jail population? I would think he'd want to put her in a more isolated setting, if nothing else. But I suppose there are prisoners with untreated PTSD in all jails, so perhaps I'm being unrealistic.

The PTSD would have been more believable if it wasnt for the other two stories she used in the beginning.Because of the fact she claimed she wasnt there and the intruder theory it blows "the fog" out of the water.

Felt quite angry today as hearing something serious as PTSD and the soliders in afgahnistan made me feel just how rubbish this whole thing is. Soldiers of PTSD should not even be used in the same sentance as this poor excuse for a woman.

Everytime KM talks to her about that killing you can see that she is trying her hardest not to give anything away. Its like she is thinking "this is where i must bring the fog in". If JM had been allowed to press her further and ask the questions he really wanted to ask, JA would have cracked and i have no doubt the truth would have surfaced. THe jury almost did it, I still have faith in those 12 guys the questions they have asked so far shows they are not buying her carp.

 

[LambChop]

In watching Willmott's questioning of Samuels about PTSD, I couldn't help but cringe every time they made the very deliberate comparison between Jodi and both police officers and soldiers who have shot and killed in the line of duty. Willmott even felt it necessary on at least one occasion to specify that soldiers shoot the 'enemy', which seemed another not-so-subtle attempt at portraying Travis as such.

I can't claim to know the exact events of June 4th, 2008, but to compare the bravery and valor of police officers and soldiers to the craven actions of the defendant seems a great injustice to the former.

Police officers and our brave soldiers do not continue to stab their "enemy" 29 times and slit their throat afterwards then clean up and attempt to hide what just happened to them. There is no comparison. Bad choice on Mr. Samuels part.

 

[hindsight2020]

Good Morning Folks!:seeya:

I hope the judge will keep this new evidence out today. I am also hoping the Juan will call an expert to tell the court how easily PTSD can be faked and thus confirm the unreliability of Dr. Samuels tests of JA.

Here is an interesting abstract article that can shed some light on the subject of Malingering PTSD. It's a lengthy article but not too difficult to understand. . .And no, Dr. Samuels was not cited as a reference, lmao.

Symptom Validity Testing: A Critical Review
http://psyc.uno.edu/Faculty pages/Greve Publications/SVT Review TCN 2001.pdf

 

[kayice]

Doctor doesn't seem to want to spend any money updating his practice, if you can it that. How's come he had to read out of book anyway? Wouldn't he just know it by now?

 

[KittyMomOf5]

I much prefer listening to Wilmott than Nurmi...but one thing that bothered me about her yesterday was her laughing with Samuels while questioning him. Due to the seriousness of this crime committed by her client, I don't see any situation where laughter would be appropriate.

 

[grammieto5]

Good morning everyone I left before the expert was finished speaking, did he ever explain what ptsd had to do with JA stabbing Travis in back? Did I miss Juan Martinez questioning him or will that happen on Monday? Thanks

 

[BritsKate]

:seeya: Anyone know what kind of dog he is? or how old he'd be? :waitasec:

He's a pug and at least 6 or 7 now. I'm not sure how old but his little muzzle is graying. Deanna posted a recent picture of him, all snuggly in his bed, on Travis' memorial facebook site a couple of months back. (Its a closed group now though.)

 

[DebinGA]

IIRC, a friend of Travis' from CA took him in.

Was Travis close to his siblings during the time he lived in Mesa?

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Also, they CANNOT suborn perjury. So if she told them she killed him unprovoked, they cannot allow her to take the stand and testify to being attacked.

I second that.. I doubt there was ever an open discussion about how she planned this and got her grandpa's gun then a knife and went there.

The first meeting she may have had with an attorney, would be based on the Ninja story after her first Version 1.0 I was not in the state of Arizona...

Enter...the Attorney's. First she represented herself but had some "advisers" (at some point that was Nurmi and Willmott after going through a slew of others per the records, she changed Attorneys like undies.. if she has those)

When they came on board (no pun intended) They were presented with the Ninja story, that then morphed to the "he tried to attack me...so, I cut him all up, shot him, and put him in his shower, and my finger hurts? it stings"

Then a great fog rolled in and I awoke in the desert.

They would then say....(as that was the time they all came on board because of a hearing that informed them they would seek the death penalty and she might want an actual attorney besides her smart self)

Some type of conversation would take place along the order of:

"if you stole your grandfathers gun, borrowed gas cans and drove to Arizona and killed him, they will get a conviction and you will probably be put to death? Jodi, that's premeditated 1st degree murder? On the other hand, if you were just trying to defend yourself, like, let's say he attacked you, you had no choice, well then, that would be self defense. So what happened, you need to tell me exactly which is it?"

"he attacked me...that's all I remember, he threw me down, well first up then down...I tried to get away, I don't know where the gun or knife came from, it's all a blur..."

"Like a fog?" Attorney said..

"yes, a fog, that's exactly what it was" Jodi exclaimed...

Ta da! A bit of role play back and forth, no overt suggestion to lie or make up a story.. Just give her a Menu with a few choices and the consequences for the various scenarios then ask her what the heck happened? and we want the truth (uh huh) There might even be hints from the Attorney's that they DON'T want to know, uh hum...any other story.. This is it, it's the truth, we all go with it. They really cannot have discussions of a totally fake story, then allow her on the stand.. This girl would rat them out, she would be on 48 hours telling the world how they told her what to say...

 

[JayB12]

She (along with her nude photos) should be sent off to the Taliban as special delivery. They would treat her to a nice clean decapitation.

Either that or the leaders of the Taliban would hide in her anus since our Navy Seals have become very familiar with their terrain and typical hiding spots.

 

[Southern_Meadow]

Unless there is some special quirk in AZ law, JM can impeach any witness on any past bad act that has to do with dishonesty--credibility is always at issue. An ethics violation would clearly qualify. The only nuance is how far into the specifics of the violation he would be allowed to explore.

Source: I'm not a lawyer quite yet, but I am a 2L law student. :square:

Yep, this was talked about on NG last night, I think, or else DD and even the defense attorneys said JM could bring this up on cross and that he probably would.

 

[popsicle]

A big problem with the suggestion that JA has PTSD is that she was not seen by any health care professionals immediately after the murder.

People that are involved in critical incidents normally do not cover up their actions, flee the scene, dispose of evidence, make cover-up "normal" phone calls, and then a few hours later go hop into bed with somebody else.

There were no debriefings, no interviews, JA covered up her crime and told no one.

I am not a fan of Gus 2.0

They also don't send cover-up emails.

 

[megmono]

I've never been suicidal. I've had post partum. I've been clinically depressed. Saying all of that, it bothers me w the so called suicide attempts. Imagine the money, heartbreak and time we all would have saved if she'd have actually done it!?

I know it's been talked about before and we have ruled it out. The way she uses sex screams that she was molested as a child. I can't put my finger on it but going off my past experiences and a trusty TIME magazine article, I want to diagnose it. I'm half joking but serious.

Also on dr drew last night he said they gave her the shortest most compound test for PTSD. Other test exsist that would have given a better diagnosis of whatever this bat chit crazy woman is trying to lie about. I'm convinced she got other prisoners to help her.

 

[LambChop]

Doctor doesn't seem to want to spend any money updating his practice, if you can it that. How's come he had to read out of book anyway? Wouldn't he just know it by now?

His CV indicates he is a sex therapist? How ironic!!!!

 

[Schuby]

I second that.. I doubt there was ever an open discussion about how she planned this and got her grandpa's gun then a knife and went there.

The first meeting she may have had with an attorney, would be based on the Ninja story after her first Version 1.0 I was not in the state of Arizona...

Enter...the Attorney's. First she represented herself but had some "advisers" (at some point that was Nurmi and Willmott after going through a slew of others per the records, she changed Attorneys like undies.. if she has those)

When they came on board (no pun intended) They were presented with the Ninja story, that then morphed to the "he tried to attack me...so, I cut him all up, shot him, and put him in his shower, and my finger hurts? it stings"

Then a great fog rolled in and I awoke in the desert.

They would then say....(as that was the time they all came on board because of a hearing that informed them they would seek the death penalty and she might want an actual attorney besides her smart self)

Some type of conversation would take place along the order of:

"if you stole your grandfathers gun, borrowed gas cans and drove to Arizona and killed him, they will get a conviction and you will probably be put to death? Jodi, that's premeditated 1st degree murder? On the other hand, if you were just trying to defend yourself, like, let's say he attacked you, you had no choice, well then, that would be self defense. So what happened, you need to tell me exactly which is it?"

"he attacked me...that's all I remember, he threw me down, well first up then down...I tried to get away, I don't know where the gun or knife came from, it's all a blur..."

"Like a fog?" Attorney said..

"yes, a fog, that's exactly what it was" Jodi exclaimed...

Ta da! A bit of role play back and forth, no overt suggestion to lie or make up a story.. Just give her a Menu with a few choices and the consequences for the various scenarios then ask her what the heck happened? and we want the truth (uh huh) There might even be hints from the Attorney's that they DON'T want to know, uh hum...any other story.. This is it, it's the truth, we all go with it. They really cannot have discussions of a totally fake story, then allow her on the stand.. This girl would rat them out, she would be on 48 hours telling the world how they told her what to say...

That is exactly how I think it went down. Not so much them telling her what to say, but just presenting a couple hypotheticals about the nature of the evidence against her and letting her fill in the details.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

I like that there is a "step" under the table in case someone needs help getting on the table.

I just noticed that lol. For short killers

 

[kayice]

:seeya: Anyone know what kind of dog he is? or how old he'd be? :waitasec:

Are you talking about Travis' dog? A black pug. I found the obit of Travis' grandmother and said she loved pugs too.

I love pugs, lost mine a year ago. ...and I have a son named Travis. I want justice for them all! Napoleon included, if he's still w/ us. 10-13 years on age, but they have health problems, Naps looked healthy though.

 

[JayB12]

Doctor doesn't seem to want to spend any money updating his practice, if you can it that. How's come he had to read out of book anyway? Wouldn't he just know it by now?

Think of it this way...Arias can't even keep her filthy lies straight. This quack "doctor" has to use his notes to stay on track despite that track really being warped and leading to nowhere.

 

[Mamabear1963]

I agree. The comparison infuriated me. I had to step away yesterday. I'm listening to it on YouTube now.

I keep try to watch. But Samuel reminds me of a psychiatrist that worked for the state of CA when I was in training. I keep yelling at my phone. I have an issue with people that run on tests and not logic

 

[Love Never Fails]

I believe what you saw was from After Dark: The Jodi Arias Trial. I cannot, however, find the video. Here is the transcript:


Mike galanos actually reenacted the sequence of events as jodi described them to see if he could do them in 62 seconds, and here's a bit of that.
00:04:03 >> Jodi is taking pictures of travis in the shower, she stumbles, drops the camera, and he comes out, never seen him this angry.
00:04:14 She hits her head.
00:04:17 She gets herself together, enough to run out of there.
00:04:19 Where do I go?
00:04:21 Do I leave?
00:04:22 Where do I go?
00:04:23 The closet.
00:04:24 I'm in the closet now.
00:04:25 I created some space.
00:04:26 There's a gun up here.
00:04:27 She gets the gun, she heads back to the bathroom.
00:04:32 Here we go.
00:04:33 A confrontation.
00:04:34 Travis comes at her, like a linebacker, and she's dead.
00:04:38 Boom, the gun goes off.
00:04:39 He's shot in the head, but they're down in a heat now.
00:04:42 She gets up, and it's time to get out of there.
00:04:46 But now, something is amiss.
00:04:48 >> It's like he's running a marathon in that short amount of time, even though mike wasn't really being attacked, it still ended up taking him more than 62 seconds to reenact the crime as jodi described it.

END TRANSCRIPT FOR HLN After Dark Jodi Arias Trial Special
Here is the link to the After Dark Website:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/03/13/hln-after-dark-jodi-arias-trial-special

I'm not sure if this is what you saw - but this is the closest thing I could find meeting your description. I wish I could find the video. I would think that it would be up on the website - it could be and I, not knowing how to navigate their website to find video, am not finding it.

I hope you find it! I really dislike not being able to find something I know that I saw - and, want to share.

Mike Galanos actually did the reenactment on HLN in the afternoon, I believe it was Wednesday or Thursday this week. And he also inserted 29 stab wounds but didn't take time for slitting of TA's throat. His stab wounds were repeatedly in one direction too. And it didn't happen that way. She also stabbed him in the back. So her story is just insane. She stabbed him first like the ME said, then stabbed him in the back, then slit his throat. And realizing he had her blood from her finger wound on him as well, she had to wash him off sonher DNA would not be on his body. So she dragged him to the shower, stuffed him there and washed off his body and hers. Remember, she is a psycho. There was no fear. She didn't realize she left a palm print or that pictures would be recovered. She is smart you know, smarter than all the world. So she probably drove off into the night, radio blaring, feeling free and planning the cover up. But she had not yet met Detective Flores or Juan Ramirez. Uh oh......