trial day 43: the defense continues its case in chief #131

[rose222]

Morning Sleuthers!
I hope everyone is well rested after that experience yesterday! I know the times I jumped up or turned around at what I was seeing/hearing yesterday should count as a trip to the gym

I know all of us are so frustrated by not knowing the actual course of events when she killed TA, but I think I've come to the conclusion that she did shoot first, missed her mark badly by not killing him outright, the gun jammed, panicked and then went into the stab frenzy because he wasn't immediately dead. I think he screamed at her, "I hate you!" after she shot him and that added into the frenzy.
So many people focus on the stabbing frenzy and see a crime of passion, but I think it was a rage because her plan was falling apart. I keep thinking of her Mom's interview where she said JA could be happy one minute and ten minutes later, in a total screaming rage.
I did hear one investigator, guest on one of the shows, say that the only reason TA only had one bullet wound was because the gun jammed.
I think he's right.
If things would have gone her way, JA would have shot TA to death, left him in the shower, and gone about her business....
I think that day went so far off track for her that she went insanely postal.
She inserts bits of the truth into her paragraphs of lies. She shot first, he didn't die immediately. What she won't tell anyone is why she butchered him. It would show how badly she screwed up her 'perfect plan'. JA doesn't admit to faults. She is a genius.

Stabbing someone 29 times while almost beheading the poor guy is not a crime of passion in the technical sense. She killed him in cold blood.

She lies when it is to her benefit. Certainly, admitting that she stabbed Travis first will not benefit her. It is to her advantage to lie. I believe the M.E. and JM that the shot was last. Either way it is first-degree murder.

 

[nursebeeme]

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[oceanblueeyes]

I'm surprised she didn't add, "And even if she were stalking him causing him to be fearful, fear leads men to be abusive as I pointed out the other day."

She isn't going to touch that with a ten foot pole.

She knows his fear was very real.

JA traveled 1000 miles to come to where he was so she could stab him 29 times..slit his throat and then shoot him in the head.

Travis had no anger even then. He was terrified and trying to fend off his cold blooded murderess.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Stabbing someone 29 times while almost beheading the poor guy is not a crime of passion in the technical sense. She killed him in cold blood.

She lies when it is to her benefit. Certainly, admitting that she stabbed Travis first will not benefit her. It is to her advantage to lie. I believe that M.E. and JM that the shot was last. Either way it is first-degree murder.

Exactly. It was a premeditative plan to see him dead and she did carried out her plan.

No crime of passion. Just methodical and using whatever means she found necessary to make sure Travis was dead by her hands.

 

[rose222]

I'm afraid I didn't get a chance to catch up. Real life got in my way again!

I've seen it mentioned a few times that ALV looked tired and perhaps she does not like to spar with JM. She may have been tired (JM will not stand for BS) but this woman loves confrontation. She could have answered in a straight-forward manner but she hasn't. She's getting worse with each day she is on stand. To have the audacity to say JM needs a time-out! She loves and thrives on arguing with JM. Very similar to her client. I can see where JA picked up some of her tactics on the stand. Both very <unusual> women.

ALV? Just so you know? Don't spar with JM (who is fighting for truth) and expect to win. Take a time-out. You certainly need it.

 

[MidwestMama]

She's their witness. While it doesn't thrill me to see the picture of them all hanging out, legally, there's nothing wrong with it.

If you go to the legal questions thread for this trial the lawyers on WS address this:

It IS an issue. No lawyer is allowed to "coach" their witness DURING their time on the stand, therefore, it is a poor choice to be seen out to lunch together as it gives the appearance this may be happening. As pointed out though, they could just say they aren't coaching her so it probably won't be brought up.

 

[Mykeru]

Nanny, AL is very knowledgeable about domestic abuse and has done a lot for that cause. I think she is past her time and is a dinosaur now and needs to pass the baton to the younger generation. Times are different- with text messages, emails, etc. People are different now , since the 60's and '70. I grew up in those eras- I'm probably around the same age as AL- and when I attended classes at the college where I live last year, I couldn't understand all the text messaging the kids did. I thought it was "stupid". The kids were texting, talking to their friends at the same time. It was inconceivable to me and I thought it was rude. BUT, it was wrong of me to think it was stupid because this is the world the kids live in now. AL needs to educate herself about THIS era if she wants to continue in the field. She's past, and this is now. How people think of sex is even different now, not deviant, and that's OK. She has to get over her "old fashion" ideas and get in the so-called "groove" (as we "old fashion" people use to say in the '70's-LOL).
:twocents:

Actually some of the younger generation might be worse, fully immersed in Patriarchy Theory.

Patriarchy Theory works like this: this is a male dominated society set up by men for men in which women are basically the Rebel Alliance and men are the Empire.

The idea that women can engage in behavior like manipulative passive aggression is rejected out-right. The only power is the power wielded by men.

This is why Alyce harps so much on the idea of control, under patriarchy Theory its only men who have control and women have no agency. This is how she dismisses all of Jodi's stalking behavior through the idea that it was only Travis who had control and therefore responsibility in the relationship. so the exact same behavior by a man and a woman must be interpreted differently merely on the basis of the genders.

The younger women involved in, for example the Great Schism in the atheist and skeptical community are even more true believers in patriarchy theory and the sociology of knowledge perspective (and overt man haters) than Alyce who, being old fashioned, cant claim that this is the only framework she's ever known.

Of course traditional social conservatism and patriarchy theory are both ideologically based sexist nonsense that interferes with the foundations of true egalitarianism and equality.

Keep in mind when you're listening to Alyce LaViolette's prudish, gender obsessed, control fixated nonsense that her real foundation is not in domestic violence but in Patriarchy Theory

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

ALL the time! I loved it yesterday when Juan said, "Don't look over there, I'M the one asking the questions."

Anyone? Where might I find yesterday's morning session on Vid. I missed it and would love to see this exchange Shuby mentioned.

TIA

 

[nursebeeme]

Anyone? Where might I find yesterday's morning session on Vid. I missed it and would love to see this exchange Shuby mentioned.

TIA

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195462"]*graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
(timeline thread is chronological so scroll to the last page)

 

[Colt46]

<modsnip>
Photo Attached Below

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=457196854356462&l=399ac0914c

Yikes!!! The camera does not lie....that is one scary looking woman! Willmott doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact that she herself is looking bad - real bad - during all of her intimate interaction with this psychotic murderer. Soooo unprofessional. At least Nurmi has distanced himself!

I just hope the court has enough sheriff's deputies surrounding her when the verdict comes in. She is not going to go gently into the night....the stun belt better be in good working order!

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

JA is getting Bored now because she hasn't been able to talk about herself for what two or so weeks now... She does not have
control of the people in that court room and she can't get out of it.

It appears that JW has torn down all boundaries, as JA gets closer and closer to her physically and mentally. We saw JW make faces to JA when her objections were overruled, as if to say, "See what I've been telling you, how biased this court is?" Day by day JW gets less professional and JA gets more emboldened. imho.

 

[Southern_Meadow]

I think after the "time out" insult yesterday, the jury isn't going to take anything ALV says seriously. I don't think they were before that, but yesterday sealed it for me. I knew she was going to say something like that to Juan before he finished. Willmott had an "oh s#!t" look on her face the second she said it. I'm sure she told her it was ok and that she would clean everything up in re-direct, but there's not much she can do, IMO, to get that statement out of the juror's minds.

Speaking of re-direct, I am not looking forward to it and I have a feeling Juan will wrap up today.... possibly before lunch and it will be the Jennifer and Alyce show for the rest of the week. :facepalm:

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

Morning folks :seeya:

I have an 11:15 appointment today ( I have already cancelled it once for Juan's cross). My son has an iPod touch, that I may can watch the trial on....but I am pretty "challenged" when it comes to those things :facepalm:

Hopefully I won't miss too much.

 

[jellybeanz]

watching back to see where ALV said the word afflicted first then she asked JM what he means by the word.. she is the one who said "afflicted" first.

Jodi Arias Trial : Day 43 : Martinez Vs. LaViolette : Part 13 (No Sidebars) - YouTube

watch from 8.49

Great catch! I wondered why Mike B wasn't asked to read back.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Good morning all. Can't wait for another Juanderful day!

I also wanted to say to Weebles that all of your posts and gifs yesterday were the cherry on top of a great day! I so much enjoyed them - and somehow you made each one appropriate for the topic of the moment!

 

[BritsKate]

Morning Sleuthers!
I hope everyone is well rested after that experience yesterday! I know the times I jumped up or turned around at what I was seeing/hearing yesterday should count as a trip to the gym

I know all of us are so frustrated by not knowing the actual course of events when she killed TA, but I think I've come to the conclusion that she did shoot first, missed her mark badly by not killing him outright, the gun jammed, panicked and then went into the stab frenzy because he wasn't immediately dead. I think he screamed at her, "I hate you!" after she shot him and that added into the frenzy.
So many people focus on the stabbing frenzy and see a crime of passion, but I think it was a rage because her plan was falling apart. I keep thinking of her Mom's interview where she said JA could be happy one minute and ten minutes later, in a total screaming rage.
I did hear one investigator, guest on one of the shows, say that the only reason TA only had one bullet wound was because the gun jammed.
I think he's right.
If things would have gone her way, JA would have shot TA to death, left him in the shower, and gone about her business....
I think that day went so far off track for her that she went insanely postal.
She inserts bits of the truth into her paragraphs of lies. She shot first, he didn't die immediately. What she won't tell anyone is why she butchered him. It would show how badly she screwed up her 'perfect plan'. JA doesn't admit to faults. She is a genius.

Stabbing someone 29 times while almost beheading the poor guy is not a crime of passion in the technical sense. She killed him in cold blood.

She lies when it is to her benefit. Certainly, admitting that she stabbed Travis first will not benefit her. It is to her advantage to lie. I believe that M.E. and JM that the shot was last. Either way it is first-degree murder.

Strictly speaking, a crime of passion is when someone kills another as a result of a sudden and strong impulse. Her bringing a weapon with her rather precludes that line of defense, in my opinion. Overkill is pretty common though and it's found in many stranger homicides too. However, in this case, I believe the amount of overkill and extreme brutality is indicative of a narcissistic rage. The amount or brutality of the injuries doesn't speak to premeditation (or even lack of) for me - but all her actions leading up to getting to Travis' house that day certainly do. I believe premeditation has been proven BARD because the coincidences would have to be astronomical otherwise.


MOO

 

[Texas Lady]

At it early this morning, JM brought up stalking yesterday with ALV, here is what AZ Law is regarding 'stalking'

13-2923. Stalking; classification; definitions

A. A person commits stalking if the person intentionally or knowingly engages in a course of conduct that is directed toward another person and if that conduct either:

1. Would cause a reasonable person to fear for the person's safety or the safety of that person's immediate family member and that person in fact fears for the person's safety or the safety of that person's immediate family member.

2. Would cause a reasonable person to fear death of that person or that person's immediate family member and that person in fact fears death of that person or that person's immediate family member.

B. Stalking under subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section is a class 5 felony. Stalking under subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section is a class 3 felony.

C. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Course of conduct":

(a) Means any of the following:

(i) Maintaining visual or physical proximity to a specific person or directing verbal, written or other threats, whether express or implied, to a specific person on two or more occasions over a period of time, however short.

(ii) Using any electronic, digital or global positioning system device to surveil a specific person or a specific person's internet or wireless activity continuously for twelve hours or more or on two or more occasions over a period of time, however short, without authorization.
(b) Does not include constitutionally protected activity or other activity authorized by law, the other person, the other person's authorized representative or if the other person is a minor, the minor's parent or guardian.

2. "Immediate family member" means a spouse, parent, child or sibling or any other person who regularly resides in a person's household or resided in a person's household within the past six months.

Source: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/02923.htm

BBM

This makes me wonder what we are really going to hear from the computer expert on rebuttal and could this be one of the issues that might make it a felony murder. I don't know the laws very well so just a wild idea. I don't really have a clue but it makes me wonder.

 

[rose222]

I think after the "time out" insult yesterday, the jury isn't going to take anything ALV says seriously. I don't think they were before that, but yesterday sealed it for me. I knew she was going to say something like that to Juan before he finished. Willmott had an "oh s#!t" look on her face the second she said it. I'm sure she told her it was ok and that she would clean everything up in re-direct, but there's not much she can do, IMO, to get that statement out of the juror's minds.

Speaking of re-direct, I am not looking forward to it and I have a feeling Juan will wrap up today.... possibly before lunch and it will be the Jennifer and Alyce show for the rest of the week. :facepalm:

Oh yes. And you know what else is obvious? JM never loses control. He plays out his frustrations for the jury when there is a need for them to see that. He get tough with witnesses when there is a need. He is never out of control. If he was then he would have yelled at ALV when she mentioned the time-out. He didn't give it back to her. Just asked the Judge to admonish ALV. He is such a genius. People think his frustrations get the better of him. Never. It's all part of his brilliant strategy. He knows what to do and when to do it.

:crush:

 

[atthelake]

Yep, and it doesn't help when people keep quoting the offending post!

Amen sister!

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[SmokeyGirl]

WoW!! What a day you guys!! Our Juan is just so.. Well, he's just so damn Juanderful and I fully believe this is NOT just about his winning a case as a Prosecutor.. IMO he is fighting so hard for Travis!! He is fighting to right what wrong this evil creature has done ON TOP OF SLAUGHTERING HIM.. As in not only is he fighting for JUSTICE for Travis in seeing his killer convicted and sentenced to death, but just as important Juan is going way above and beyond just what is his duty as Prosecutor.. He is setting the record straight about the slaughtering of Travis' character and who he was as a living, breathing, innocent man.. The slaughtering of his character that this vile being and her team have done throughout this trial.. IMO this is exactly why we see Juan fighting so diligently and determined with a relentless fierceness that literally covers me in goosebumps as I watch him in action with that exact fierce determination for Travis and his loved ones!!

This man is doing what's only right and IMO its just the way Juan is, its what he is made of, and its what makes him the sharp *advertiser censored* Prosecutor that he is.. And I must say I have such respect and admiration for this man that goes sooooooo waaaay far beyond just crushing on the Prosecutor of a high profile case.. I very much believe that what Juan's made of is exactly what fuels the awe inspiring way in which he handles himself, the case, and most importantly the victim and their loved ones for whose behalf that is fighting this fierce battle ..

It's exactly why I, for one saw nothing even remotely humorous with ALV's straight outta the gate remark of, "Mr. Martinez are you mad at me for something?".. I was livid because I feel as tho it's glaringly obvious why this Prosecutor is forced to have the aggressive demeanor with ALV, Dr. Dick, and especially with the murderer, herself. He's forced to due to blasphemous, blatant, slanderous lies with which they have chosen to testify to in this court of law.. Yes, Miss ALV there is a damn good reason for why the Prosecutor comes outta the gate aggressively and straight to the point.. It's a direct result of your having chosen to take part in the slaughtering of an already slaughtered man's character, memory, and any legacy this innocent, young man had made for himself In his extremely, short life here on this earth!!*

Juan is righting the wrong for which you, Miss ALV and the other paid circus performers have blatantly taken part in.. So, instead of being a smart *advertiser censored*, fame wh*re under the guise of DV expert witness you should sit down, STFU, and answer the Prosecutors questions with yes and/or no so that you may.. So that may just walk away from this extremely poor choice on your part with some tiny semblance of a continued or future career in your field.. If you so choose not to take that advice then you and your little boxing ring groupies will be the only people that you will ever, ever, ever dream of having in your corner or on your side Miss LaViolette..

Juan will succeed and the exact reason that he will succeed is because this man Absolutely has what it takes to get this huge job done in fighting and winning justice for Travis' being slaughtered in successfully convicting this defendant to death row.. As well as he will also succeed in righting the wrong that's taken place in this very courtroom of again slaughtering Travis Victor Alexander's character, life lived, memory, and legacy left behind from his extremely short life here on this earth!

IMO that's exactly what this about, IMO that's exactly what the hell matters, and IMO you damn well better believe that is exactly what the hell this Prosecutor, Juan Martinez will see through to fruition.. You know why? *Because that's what this man is all about and that's what this man is made of and he has exactly what it takes to demand these things on behalf of this victim, Travis Alexander and his many loved ones!!!!!

And that my friends is exactly what I fully believe we will witness.. I have faith in this jury that they are right there with Juan and IMO they want to see justice served on behalf of the ONE AND ONLY VICTIM THERE IS IN THIS CASE, TRAVIS!

VERY WELL SAID!!!! :rocker: