trial day 45: the defense continues its case in chief #137

[Mykeru]

Originally Alyce said that Travis said..."porking a 14 year old"...then she was cut off. She was explaining Travis' behavior before the juror's questions. I think it was Juan was questioning her.

I like bacon.

OBJECTION! Beyond the scope.

Over-ruled. Mmmm...bacon.

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[TartLemon]

Never mind... Found it!

Court resumes 9:30 Friday 4/12.

 

[momof7]

Wow, great jury questions yesterday afternoon! I have to admit though, the added bits about TA's abusive childhood made me pretty angry. Again, it felt like she didn't have all the pieces and made conclusions based on the lies she was told and a few texts/emails.

Honestly, I see a bit of TA in myself. No one or anything in this life is perfect. One of the things that I have a tendency to do as an adult is remain positive in bad situations. Coping skills. No matter what, I can think of worse things and make myself able to handle things. As an adult survivor of severe childhood abuse, I found myself in the past with partners who were not all that wonderful to me but I could make excuses for their behavior or think of something 'worse' they could hav done to force myself to stay or deny whatever was going on. I think this was one thing TA took with him into adulthood. He was a motivational speaker with PPL and at some point doing very well. One of the things you need as a motivational speaker is to be positive everything comes up roses, lift the people/crowd up to your way of thinking. He was probably really good at that. I am very good at what I do in my real life job because I am able to compartmentalize and no matter what spin things to the positive. A lot of that is learning to store things away, make yourself believe it doesn't matter now etc. Part of that is being an older sibling in these types of childhoods. We are constantly protecting and lifting up younger siblings, its not so bad, we will get through it. He probably heard and said that several times in his life. Its kinda like 'We still have each other no matter what' feeling.

Anyway, I think if TA's childhood plays anything in the conversation it really has to do more with the fact he could always think of something worse that could happen. It wasn't so bad all this stuff with JA. He had been through worse. He could handle the behavior all by himself, he had handled worse and survived. And thats what made me mad. AVL made it seem like TA's childhood could ONLY make for a terrible adult, not a great adult with positive experiences and relationships, i.e. overcoming the abuse. Did TA have things that followed him that were not so great? Yes, I am sure. I only know what has been said, I did not know him personally. However, he seemed to do find forming attachment with friends and having good relationships. Obviously his family is loving and supportive. ALV saw one email from his sister. I gather it wasn't the most loving and supportive in her opinion. But, hey, sometimes siblings tell the truth and what was needed at that time. Or maybe there is a background story to that one email...

It was just so disheartening to hear ALV say that about his childhood and totally disregard the fact he went to live with a loving grandmother and grandfather. He had structure through them and the Mormon faith. I think they did very well with what they were given..look at his siblings sitting in the court room everyday. They obviously love each other a great deal. It made me angry that she, not one time, said anything about that. She sure had a lot to say about everything else but that.

Kelly

 

[Wake_me]

With ALV's reasoning that if JA was a really good liar she would have told a really good lie...

How about she has such a high opinion of herself that she thought she planned the murder so perfectly that she would never be caught. The messy crime scene and lack of cleanup coming as a result of things not going as planned and the need to be out of there ASAP. She's pigeon-holed herself in to a corner and she has to now work with a lie that fits the evidence at hand.

The talk about TA saying her was very frightened of Jodi in May of 08, and how ALV doesn't believe his words, because none of his actions indicated fear in the months prior. Perhaps things escalated slowly. At first he thought things were relatively harmless (peeping in window, looking through phone etc.), but over time the pattern escalated to slashing tires, sending anonymous threatening emails, waiting for him when he came home from dates etc. Yes, she was at his place in June of 08, but we only have her word on how welcome of a guest she was.

ALV loved to talk about the 90% of communication non-verbal. What caught my attention was when she was asked how she weighed written evidence against in-person interviews. She then went on to ramble about how uncomfortable she was at the jail, couldn't see well through the separating glass, felt cross-eyed at times etc. etc. So how exactly did she accurately assess Jodi's body language in those conditions?

The question about whether or not she had access to all journals, or just what was given to here was a blessing, and damaging to the defense. I wish one would ask how many text messages were exchanged between the two during the time they knew each other, and how many she was privy too. I believe I heard a reported 80,000 texts between them, but I may be mistaken.

 

[The Farm]

Good Morning!!!!

Well I have today off but unfortunately will miss most of the trial I think. Appointments out the yahoo etc. I am going to leave early and try to get most of it in.
So what I did see yesterday of the jury questions I was somewhat pleased but am still not getting excited at their outcome just jet.
Did that with CA and can not do that again.

Question, when the jury questions were being asked who did Jodi keep looking at, was it the jury or Juan?

 

[momof7]

Good Morning!!!!

Well I have today off but unfortunately will miss most of the trial I think. Appointments out the yahoo etc. I am going to leave early and try to get most of it in.
So what I did see yesterday of the jury questions I was somewhat pleased but am still not getting excited at their outcome just jet.
Did that with CA and can not do that again.

Question, when the jury questions were being asked who did Jodi keep looking at, was it the jury or Juan?

Probably both. Realistically though, ever since the incident with Juror 5 she has been eagle eyed on the jury. Coming in and out of the courtroom, during testimony etc.

IMHO, though, she is equal opportunity in the staring and stink eye giving.

Kelly

 

[jellybeanz]

I've been thinking about LAV's bizarre and biased testimony. The only reason I can think of is that she is deeply opposed to the death penalty.
I'd like to know if she has ever been a witness for a true victim in a case where the victim she was representing was murdered in the way Travis was and where the Perp faced the DP. I would bet my boots she hasn't been in that situation though.

I asked yesterday if a juror question 'Do you believe in the Death Penalty?' would get through. I have a feeling it wouldn't be allowed and I suspect Juan couldn't ask her the same question when he had a chance.

 

[josie1986]

Don't quote me - but I believe tomorrow is 9:30 - 12:30.

Mel

Tomorrow is Saturday?? Lol

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[The Farm]

Probably both. Realistically though, ever since the incident with Juror 5 she has been eagle eyed on the jury. Coming in and out of the courtroom, during testimony etc.

IMHO, though, she is equal opportunity in the staring and stink eye giving.

Kelly

It is hard to tell and last I heard they were not looking at her at all but if I were a juror I think I would be looking at her for reactions. Then again her reactions are all lies.
Alyce in Wonderland was insistant on still rambling on and on at most of the questions I saw and I did see the judge cut her off on a few and go on to another. I think that was when Juan objected.
She can't seem the shut up and just give a simple answer.

 

[josie1986]

Wow, great jury questions yesterday afternoon! I have to admit though, the added bits about TA's abusive childhood made me pretty angry. Again, it felt like she didn't have all the pieces and made conclusions based on the lies she was told and a few texts/emails.

Honestly, I see a bit of TA in myself. No one or anything in this life is perfect. One of the things that I have a tendency to do as an adult is remain positive in bad situations. Coping skills. No matter what, I can think of worse things and make myself able to handle things. As an adult survivor of severe childhood abuse, I found myself in the past with partners who were not all that wonderful to me but I could make excuses for their behavior or think of something 'worse' they could hav done to force myself to stay or deny whatever was going on. I think this was one thing TA took with him into adulthood. He was a motivational speaker with PPL and at some point doing very well. One of the things you need as a motivational speaker is to be positive everything comes up roses, lift the people/crowd up to your way of thinking. He was probably really good at that. I am very good at what I do in my real life job because I am able to compartmentalize and no matter what spin things to the positive. A lot of that is learning to store things away, make yourself believe it doesn't matter now etc.

Anyway, I think if TA's childhood plays anything in the conversation it really has to do more with the fact he could always think of something worse that could happen. It wasn't so bad all this stuff with JA. He had been through worse. He could handle the behavior all by himself, he had handled worse and survived. And thats what made me mad. AVL made it seem like TA's childhood could ONLY make for a terrible adult, not a great adult with positive experiences and relationships, i.e. overcoming the abuse. Did TA have things that followed him that were not so great? Yes, I am sure. I only know what has been said, I did not know him personally. However, he seemed to do find forming attachment with friends and having good relationships. Obviously his family is loving and supportive. ALV saw one email from his sister. I gather it wasn't the most loving and supportive in her opinion. But, hey, sometimes siblings tell the truth and what was needed at that time. Or maybe there is a background story to that one email...

It was just so disheartening to hear ALV say that about his childhood and totally disregard the fact he went to live with a loving grandmother and grandfather. He had structure through them and the Mormon faith. I think they did very well with what they were given..look at his siblings sitting in the court room everyday. They obviously love each other a great deal. It made me angry that she, not one time, said anything about that. She sure had a lot to say about everything else but that.

Kelly

I didn't particularly mind about her speaking about travis's childhood if anything that would make me feel so bad for him (if I was on the jury) knowing where he had came from and what he made of himself.

Another thing travis went to live with maw maw at 8 (?) And had a perfect upbringing from then where as jodi lived with her "abusive" parents til what 17? Jodi clearly lived in the "abusive" environment for longer than travis, ergo according to alyce jodi is likely the perpetrator

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[momof7]

It is hard to tell and last I heard they were not looking at her at all but if I were a juror I think I would be looking at her for reactions. Then again her reactions are all lies.
Alyce in Wonderland was insistant on still rambling on and on at most of the questions I saw and I did see the judge cut her off on a few and go on to another. I think that was when Juan objected.
She can't seem the shut up and just give a simple answer.

Only when the 'rest of the story' is advantageous to the defendant. When it is potraying the real victim in a true manner, she just gives the basic facts as she knows them. Hence, the childhood abuse line she gave yesterday. Yeah it probably sucked and yeah he probably (as all the siblings do) have things that hindered him emotionally as an adult.

And while I am not sure as I am not a psychiatrist or a dr or a counselor, though I have seen them many times, one of the things we childhood abuse survivors have an issue with is showing anger. As children we are powerless to do that when our parents are the abusers. I, for example, in an attempt to NOT abuse other people, for a long time stuffed anger. Everything was ok. Don't worry about it. Till one day you just explode and come out of the cage fighting. I think that is more what TA experienced. Not abusing JA but she would push and push and do things he asked her not to and kept saying it was alright, trying to make it better until she scammed him again. I bet there were blowups, but I bet it was after he took quite a bit of crap.

Kelly

 

[momof7]

I didn't particularly mind about her speaking about travis's childhood if anything that would make me feel so bad for him (if I was on the jury) knowing where he had came from and what he made of himself.

Another thing travis went to live with maw maw at 8 (?) And had a perfect upbringing from then where as jodi lived with her "abusive" parents til what 17? Jodi clearly lived in the "abusive" environment for longer than travis, ergo according to alyce jodi is likely the perpetrator

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I agree. I just think that she exbounded on everything else, why not throw that tidbit out there. I feel bad for TA and his siblings and quite a bit of empathy. I hope that JM throws that out there about not living with his parents after the age of 8, yet JA lived with her family for her entire childhood/teen years.

It shouldn't bother me because I know JM will take care of it in his next questioning I am sure. But it did. I have listened to days and days of how poor JA has been used and abused. But never the whole story of the victim TA and its starting to get to me I think.

K

 

[JustJudy]

Respectfully shortened by me. I've added ellipsis to so indicate.

.....In fact, the questions coming from the jury were only marginally less sarcastic than when Juror #5 was present so I'm sure the defense team were wondering if they'd had the wrong juror booted. :great:.....

.....The other thing is the belief by the talking heads that the outrage shown across websites against LaViolette is designed to "intimidate" her and I strongly disagree. Strongly.

There are no threats involved in the majority of messages I've seen and nothing designed to intimidate on Amazon (and I admit that I wrote a blistering review but only because I actually did read the book and didn't agree with some of her ideas because they were outdated ... ) so where are they getting that idea?.....

I do feel that calling her place of business and her home to express their displeasure is crossing a line they swear she crossed so pot and kettle can be re-introduced.....

Ok, I'm going to bed now because my first two posts here have been major vents. :bedtime:

There have been no revelations that Juror5 or any other juror submitted intentionally sarcastic questions or acted inappropriately in any way.

 

[Schuby]

With ALV's reasoning that if JA was a really good liar she would have told a really good lie...

How about she has such a high opinion of herself that she thought she planned the murder so perfectly that she would never be caught. The messy crime scene and lack of cleanup coming as a result of things not going as planned and the need to be out of there ASAP. She's pigeon-holed herself in to a corner and she has to now work with a lie that fits the evidence at hand.

The talk about TA saying her was very frightened of Jodi in May of 08, and how ALV doesn't believe his words, because none of his actions indicated fear in the months prior. Perhaps things escalated slowly. At first he thought things were relatively harmless (peeping in window, looking through phone etc.), but over time the pattern escalated to slashing tires, sending anonymous threatening emails, waiting for him when he came home from dates etc. Yes, she was at his place in June of 08, but we only have her word on how welcome of a guest she was.

ALV loved to talk about the 90% of communication non-verbal. What caught my attention was when she was asked how she weighed written evidence against in-person interviews. She then went on to ramble about how uncomfortable she was at the jail, couldn't see well through the separating glass, felt cross-eyed at times etc. etc. So how exactly did she accurately assess Jodi's body language in those conditions?

The question about whether or not she had access to all journals, or just what was given to here was a blessing, and damaging to the defense. I wish one would ask how many text messages were exchanged between the two during the time they knew each other, and how many she was privy too. I believe I heard a reported 80,000 texts between them, but I may be mistaken.

She did so much inane rambling yesterday. The questions rewlly exposed how fragiley built her opinion is.

She has got to be hurting this morning. They went after not just her conclusions but her methodology too, a much bigger indictment of her as a professional. Plus, it was one thing when it was Juan questioning her, she could blame his agenda and blood lust as a prosecutor for his criticisms. But this is the jury and they have no agenda but the truth.

 

[Gypseagirl]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/1...e-for-money-from-jail-mother/?intcmp=trending

This is so wrong....

I know what you mean.....for one thing I would never buy anything from her for any reason. Second why would someone want to buy art from her when she also signatures it with her right thumb print......Possible the same thumb print that had blood on it that was plastered on TA's wall. Very wrong!!!

<snip from above article>
"All pieces created after January 26, 2013 are authenticated with Jodi Arias' right thumbprint."
<end snip>

 

[Schuby]

I didn't particularly mind about her speaking about travis's childhood if anything that would make me feel so bad for him (if I was on the jury) knowing where he had came from and what he made of himself.

Another thing travis went to live with maw maw at 8 (?) And had a perfect upbringing from then where as jodi lived with her "abusive" parents til what 17? Jodi clearly lived in the "abusive" environment for longer than travis, ergo according to alyce jodi is likely the perpetrator

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It drove me crazy how she kept saying that Travis, as a child of abuse wouldn't be able to form healthy relationships unless there is some kind of intervention. THERE WAS AN INERVENTION, and at a relatively young age at that.

 

[momof7]

She did so much inane rambling yesterday. The questions rewlly exposed how fragiley built her opinion is.

She has got to be hurting this morning. They went after not just her conclusions but her methodology too, a much bigger indictment of her as a professional. Plus, it was one thing when it was Juan questioning her, she could blame his agenda and blood lust as a prosecutor for his criticisms. But this is the jury and they have no agenda but the truth.

I agree. I do have a question if anyone knows, does the jury also get to ask questions of any rebuttal witness, i.e. Demarte? I hope so. I was thinking last night their questions of her should be really interesting as well.

My hope is she is more fact/clinical based in her objectives and testimony with plenty to back it up on paper. ALV was lacking in that area and it stands out.

K

 

[Schuby]

I know what you mean.....for one thing I would never buy anything from her for any reason. Second why would someone want to buy art from her when she also signatures it with her right thumb print......Possible the same thumb print that had blood on it that was plastered on TA's wall. Very wrong!!!

<snip from above article>
"All pieces created after January 26, 2013 are authenticated with Jodi Arias' right thumbprint."
<end snip>

I hope she keeps putting her "artwork" out. It's so bad, it looks like it was done by someone who just graduated from her 7th grade art class, really exposes her delusions of grandeur.

 

[momof7]

ooppps...double post. Need more coffee it appears

 

[josie1986]

It drove me crazy how she kept saying that Travis, as a child of abuse wouldn't be able to form healthy relationships unless there is some kind of intervention. THERE WAS AN INERVENTION, and at a relatively young age at that.

Juan will hopefully bring this up after jury questions.

She defo went into this case with blinders

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