trial day 49: REBUTTAL; #150

[seguek9]

OT...but ive been thinking about all our Texas members this morning. Hoping everyone is safe and well. What a crazy week our country has had :sigh:

 

[ElleElle]

Why do I have a weird feeling today will be cancelled until further notice?

 

[cricket49]

Just have to mention what I heard last night on JVM.

Veronica, a co-worker of Jodi's called into the show and said Jodi was obsessed with Travis. That Jodi would not come into work until she could get in touch with Travis by phone. She had to know where he was and what he was doing. She would sit in her car in the parking lot and not go to work until she heard from him.

Then.....after work, she would drive 5-6 hours to see him for the night and drive back the next day to work. :what:

Why oh why wouldn't they have this woman testifying?

This shows how out of her mind Jodi was in seeing Travis.

 

[justsharing]

The only plausible reason for the headshot coming afterwards is to throw off investigators, to make it look like two attackers were involved. That's all I can think of. That could be why she came up with two intruders as opposed to one.

IDK, I believe the ME, Dr. Horn and the fact that the DT hasn't brought in their own expert to dispute his findings leads me to believe he is correct. Why she would shoot him last is anyone's guess. Considering Jodi was the one who did it means it's most likely a reason no one will ever think of. She certainly doesn't function like normal people:twocents:

 

[gauntlet]

Brandi Kirby ‏@brandileigh2011 1m

Some people's brains are wired to "cram" the night before and do really well.JW proved yesterday, she is not one of those people #JodiArias

All-American Hero ‏@americanherobbq 1m

#JodiArias Jodi wears a stun belt under her clothes.Too bad there isn't an Internet click button.Give us something to do during sidebar

----


so true!

 

[ElleElle]

Mykeru, you remind me of a modern day Jack Kerouac. :rocker:

I love your posts!

Thanks. I often think the way death and killing is portrayed in movies and on television actually perpetuates violence. I think people would have a lot less support for war and the sort of drone strikes we engage in in Pakistan that have a high rate of "collateral damage" if the dead kids were proudly brought into our living rooms.

I think Arias being informed in murder by santized movies probably helped her decide to do it. I hang out with a lot of survival and primative skills people, which includes some "preppers" (Note: Civilization will not collapse, you should prep for entertainment purposes only) who have no concept of cover in a firefight because it's often not portrayed in movies, and when it is, it shows people doing dumb stuff like hiding behind car doors (Note: Even pistol rounds will go through your car door like a hot nail through butter).

So, if we are going to talk about these things, we should know what we are talking about. If we are going to talk about gunshots, throat cutting or other forms of mayhem, there are resources on the internet that will allow you to see how this cashes in in the real world. I'm one of the most unsqeamish people I know. I watched vivisection done on a monkey when I was seven years old. I've removed my own stitches. I pay attention when I have blood drawn, it simply doesn't bother me. However, even the shock site throat cutting videos can make me cringe.

And humor, it was Abraham Lincoln who said "I must laugh or I must cry", or something to that effect. Wit and snark and general graveyard humor are a useful coping mechanism. We are dealing with the ultimate uncomfortable subjects here: Mortality and mayhem. I once read a book on Grizzly Bear attacks in reference to that idiot Timothy Treadwell and one thing really stuck out when the author, in describing a bear attack, talked about the victims awareness of "the ruin of one's own body" while they were still alive. That stuck with me as something particularly horrible: The moment you move past mere injury into realizing you are being dismembered, taken apart. There's an aspect to that in the Travis Alexander murder that makes it more horrible than a quick shot to the head. It's the knowledge that Travis Alexander, on some level, knew he was being destroyed. Stuff like that really taxes our coping mechanism so much that the only resort is to the most effective coping mechanism, which is humor.

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

Look at it this way:

We can't be sure why Arias brought the gun. I would tend to think it was out of the adage "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it", due to whatever "plan" she had for the murder itself not really being solid in her mind, or to deal with inadvertency, witnesses or the possibility of taking out someone else if Travis was on the couch with another women.

But in the actual murder itself none of the wounds were immediately fatal. The stab to the inferior vena cava and pericardium would have been eventually fatal, but not immediately. The stab wounds to the back and slashes to the head were mostly superficial, being stopped by bone. The most devastating and fatal wound was the throat cut.

Now, there's really no subtle way to put this: Cutting people's throats and videotaping it has become a preferred terror tactic. They did it in Iraq, during the Chechen War and Mexican drug cartels do it. Many of these videos have ended up on the internet. I've seen a lot of them.

No one ever dies easy this way. In all the videos, even when a person's throat is cut down to the spine relatively quickly resulting in unconsciousness within 30 seconds or so, unconscious doesn't mean dead. It doesn't mean peaceful either. Even with the blood flow to the brain interrupted, the body still struggles to breathe. In the end it may come as "agonal breathing" where maybe a handful of reflexive breaths are taken in a minute. Before that, the body will work at breathing, sometimes almost hyperventilating even though the person is unconscious. On top of that, the breathing is done with copious amounts of blood flowing into the sectioned trachea, the victim is essentially drowning in their own blood. The body will struggle, writhe, fight in a purposeless manner to continue autonomic functions. This will continue until the person doing the cutting works their way through the vertebrae and cuts the spinal cord, which is no easy feat with a knife, or until the dying person runs out of steam in a minute or two...or three.

It's not pretty. It is, in fact, horrific. That is why cartels, for example, videotape it to show what happens to rival cartel members and others that would cross them.

I don't think, at the moment of the head shot, that Travis Alexander was dead. He was mortally wounded, but the "post mortem" appearance of the head wound was due, in part, to there being essentially no blood flow to the head.

If this was the case with Travis Alexander, that once his throat was cut his body still struggled to stay alive, and I have no reason to think that the throat cutting of Travis Alexander was any different than the sample I've seen, then Jodi Arias resorted to the gun as a coup de grace, to finish it because, despite what she saw in movies, killing someone is a lot harder and takes longer than she counted on.

Wow, as sad as it is, this is an excellent post.

Thank you!

 

[SusieD]

As a defense attorney she can't look disgusted with her client. I'm empathic to her career and the consequences of this trial, and the negative public view of her when we all really have no idea if she feels like we do about Jodi. Her obligations to her defense put her in a nasty light and shes been bullied for months.

Personally, I'm not a fan of her approach, her tactics, or her in general, and I don't support what she does on a moral level, but that's why I don't have an interest in being a defense attorney. Someone had to do it.

ummm, there's a HUGE difference in my opinion between being disgusted with one's client and acting like they are sorority sisters. She goes way over the line.

Again, if she doesn't have the judgement to know how to act appropriately (and I am certainly not alone in being creeped out by this BFF thing) that refelcts on the fact she is a poor attorney.

I believe everything negative I've said about JW is backed up by her behavior and poor lines of questioning, fumbling, screeching,snarkniness, and general lack of professionalism. It's not "bullying." She CHOSE to take this client, she obviously wanted something high-profile and she gets the criticism that comes with that kind of exposure. Her behavior and lawyering are hardly sympathy-inducing, I put them more in the cringe-worthy category.

Again, choices. JW made poor ones starting the minute she took the case. She is accountable for that.

 

[gypsyblue]

Why do I have a weird feeling today will be cancelled until further notice?

:slap:

 

[websurfer]

what? websearches if any were found on Ja's computer and or Ta's that she may have had access to?
Also on anyone with whom she visited before the slaughtering?Killing?MURDER?ATTACK?

 

[atthelake]

There's a thread somewhere here for android users and our problems with live streaming.

I use wildabouttrial.com - they have a mobile app but I don't have much luck with that. I just stream over my wifi connection on my Samsung.

Ustream used to work for us android users, until they did a recent update and then for some unknown reason it quit working for us.

I did have to download Adobe Flash Player for Androids to make UStream work - but since it's not working now...guess that's a moot point.

Ustream was not functioning last week on droids, but they fixed it and this Monday it works again and is faster than ever. Better than any other way, and is full screen, does not dim out like other alternatives did when we were doing workarounds last week during the upgrade issue. It is the best best way to view and ,ive stream for droids and uses less data transfer that alternatives.

Go to google apps, dowoad ustream and type in azfamily as your channe, put as favorite so later it will take less than five seconds to start streaming! It is faster than your computer to start the syreaming, and others on computer will actually be behind you during the stteaming!

 

[laniefi]

I just found out my grandma is watching this trial!

I saw her comment on the JM - Prosecutor support facebook page!

 

[Hopeful One]

Thanks. I often think the way death and killing is portrayed in movies and on television actually perpetuates violence. I think people would have a lot less support for war and the sort of drone strikes we engage in in Pakistan that have a high rate of "collateral damage" if the dead kids were proudly brought into our living rooms.

I think Arias being informed in murder by santized movies probably helped her decide to do it. I hang out with a lot of survival and primative skills people, which includes some "preppers" (Note: Civilization will not collapse, you should prep for entertainment purposes only) who have no concept of cover in a firefight because it's often not portrayed in movies, and when it is, it shows people doing dumb stuff like hiding behind car doors (Note: Even pistol rounds will go through your car door like a hot nail through butter).

So, if we are going to talk about these things, we should know what we are talking about. If we are going to talk about gunshots, throat cutting or other forms of mayhem, there are resources on the internet that will allow you to see how this cashes in in the real world. I'm one of the most unsqeamish people I know. I watched vivisection done on a monkey when I was seven years old. I've removed my own stitches. I pay attention when I have blood drawn, it simply doesn't bother me. However, even the shock site throat cutting videos can make me cringe.

And humor, it was Abraham Lincoln who said "I must laugh or I must cry", or something to that effect. Wit and snark and general graveyard humor are a useful coping mechanism. We are dealing with the ultimate uncomfortable subjects here: Mortality and mayhem. I once read a book on Grizzly Bear attacks in reference to that idiot Timothy Treadwell and one thing really stuck out when the author, in describing a bear attack, talked about the victims awareness of "the ruin of one's own body" while they were still alive. That stuck with me as something particularly horrible: The moment you move past mere injury into realizing you are being dismembered, taken apart. There's an aspect to that in the Travis Alexander murder that makes it more horrible than a quick shot to the head. It's the knowledge that Travis Alexander, on some level, knew he was being destroyed. Stuff like that really taxes our coping mechanism so much that the only resort is to the most effective coping mechanism, which is humor.

I love your posts.

 

[Amster]

Lenore Walker was talking about battered women killing their abuser when in imminent danger. She said she has seen nothing in this case to indicate Jodi was in imminent danger.....oooops, Jenny, better think up some other excuse to save the killer.

 

[Hopeful One]

I just found out my grandma is watching this trial!

I saw her comment on the JM - Prosecutor support facebook page!

How cute!!! Mine is too. She's 91. I have dinner with her every Wednesday and we talk about it the entire time. She also watched the Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony trials.

 

[Hopeful One]

Why do I have a weird feeling today will be cancelled until further notice?

Hush!!

 

[Words2Serve]

Did any witness/expert ever talk about JA alleged being pushed by her dad, or any type of abuse being written in her journals that she had been writing since she was a teenager?

 

[indicat]

Yes!! But I was born with a tendency towards fried brain. It doesn't just happen when men are yelling at me.

Me too Hopeful, me too! :seeya:

 

[laniefi]

How cute!!! Mine is too. She's 91. I have dinner with her every Wednesday and we talk about it the entire time. She also watched the Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony trials.

Even more interesting, she was in an physically abusive marriage when my father was young...

Hmmmmmm

 

[EGirl]

Look at it this way:

We can't be sure why Arias brought the gun. I would tend to think it was out of the adage "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it", due to whatever "plan" she had for the murder itself not really being solid in her mind, or to deal with inadvertency, witnesses or the possibility of taking out someone else if Travis was on the couch with another women.

But in the actual murder itself none of the wounds were immediately fatal. The stab to the inferior vena cava and pericardium would have been eventually fatal, but not immediately. The stab wounds to the back and slashes to the head were mostly superficial, being stopped by bone. The most devastating and fatal wound was the throat cut.

Now, there's really no subtle way to put this: Cutting people's throats and videotaping it has become a preferred terror tactic. They did it in Iraq, during the Chechen War and Mexican drug cartels do it. Many of these videos have ended up on the internet. I've seen a lot of them.

No one ever dies easy this way. In all the videos, even when a person's throat is cut down to the spine relatively quickly resulting in unconsciousness within 30 seconds or so, unconscious doesn't mean dead. It doesn't mean peaceful either. Even with the blood flow to the brain interrupted, the body still struggles to breathe. In the end it may come as "agonal breathing" where maybe a handful of reflexive breaths are taken in a minute. Before that, the body will work at breathing, sometimes almost hyperventilating even though the person is unconscious. On top of that, the breathing is done with copious amounts of blood flowing into the sectioned trachea, the victim is essentially drowning in their own blood. The body will struggle, writhe, fight in a purposeless manner to continue autonomic functions. This will continue until the person doing the cutting works their way through the vertebrae and cuts the spinal cord, which is no easy feat with a knife, or until the dying person runs out of steam in a minute or two...or three.

It's not pretty. It is, in fact, horrific. That is why cartels, for example, videotape it to show what happens to rival cartel members and others that would cross them.

I don't think, at the moment of the head shot, that Travis Alexander was dead. He was mortally wounded, but the "post mortem" appearance of the head wound was due, in part, to there being essentially no blood flow to the head.

If this was the case with Travis Alexander, that once his throat was cut his body still struggled to stay alive, and I have no reason to think that the throat cutting of Travis Alexander was any different than the sample I've seen, then Jodi Arias resorted to the gun as a coup de grace, to finish it because, despite what she saw in movies, killing someone is a lot harder and takes longer than she counted on.

I hope you're a writer by trade, if not, you should be. Fantastic post. I wanted to read more.

:rocker: