trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[KBisMe]

I thought she was very precise, unbiased and did the job she was supposed to do- evaluate. I liken her to a female Juan. It seems to me that she shows that she doesn't have any interest in the outcome of the trial. She just gave her evaluation of the situation and she did it with great poise and inteeligence.

I think Juan did himself good by picking her, even with her experience.:seeya:

ITA... I think this will really boost her career! I just found it a little strange that he went that way. I like the theory people are saying about it being because it shows someone close to JA's age who has done something really great with her life. I just think it's something interesting to wonder about.

 

[writer7]

While I personally am not an expert, my GD's therapist defined BPD as the female equivalent of Anti-social personality disorder.

There is a form of ASPD that is comorbid with BPD (so you'd have both) that is more common in women than men (the BPD part). Maybe that's what she meant.

Researchers think it may be a different form of ASPD that occurs in women more often than men. I read it called the female equivalent of ASPD. ASPD does involve a lot of fistfights or jailtime, so I do think that Dx is skewed toward diagnosing males better than females. There probably really is a 'female equivalent' because ASPD overemphasizes those listed features, imho.

But BPD is not at all directly equivalent to ASPD, nope.

 

[Dr. Nick]

I agree. It is NOT normal to hit or kick your mother. 100% unacceptable. Honestly the pot is slightly strange so young, but the violence against her family dog and mother is shocking to me. ALV blew it off as normal but it's anything but normal.

I'm curious about how many people, besides me, found the story about the dog to be an obvious fiction.

She offered it in response to a question about whether she has anger issues and you can almost see the light bulb go on. She realizes that she has a Hobson's choice: admit to anger and be a suspect, or deny it and not seem credible. Her solution is to invent a silly event in which she gives a dog a little kick and it doesn't suffer any serious injury, but runs away and is never seen again. She gets to profess undying love for all animals, and instead of admitting to occasional fits of rage she becomes St. Jodi of Assisi.

Doggy Boy? Really?

 

[MrsProsecutor]

If I was the one who got to answer the juror questions, and I got the bear vs. tiger trauma question, I would answer like this:

A bear attack vs. a tiger attack is not really equivalent to the two varying traumas Jodi described. A better comparison would be to imagine you went camping with your pet tiger who you love and adore, and who is really well behaved except for a scratch or two and a nip. And then suddenly it rears up attacks you and you are forced to put it down.

On the other hand, say you went camping with your sweetheart, and after fooling around in the tent all afternoon, you are suddenly surprised by two ferocious bears, who start tearing apart your sweetheart. They drool on you but let you go/you get away, and you drive home without calling emergency services and pretend everything is fine.

I would say those are very different traumas. On one side your sweetheart is attacked and murdered in front of your eyes and you are almost killed by MULTIPLE attackers. And the other, your sweetheart is the danger and you have to put down someone you love to survive.

 

[kayice]

Sometimes I think she lost track of the camera and it got snatched up by accident with the "laundry" Jodi did .. I think she was in a post-killing frenzy and did not realize she left it until she was out of the house.
I just can not think she meant to leave it behind. I think she might have enjoyed reviewing those pics before she disposed of the camera.
I don't know... sometimes I think ninjas planted that camera... :floorlaugh:

She didn't have long before Enrique got home around 6ish. Didn't she lock the door to the house, isn't that irregular? Or did she do it to make it look like Travis already left for Cancun? But she left his watch, phone, ring...I think she got caught or almost did. She reacted once very strongly while they were showing split screen and Flores asked her that question, 'did you get caught, Jodi?'
When is the last pic? 5:32 and she still is dragging him to the shower, possibly has to shoot him yet. Clean up, do laundry, delete pics, clean herself up, wash him, etc. Tick, tock..that clock running fast before room-mate is coming. What about Naps? Did she have to deal with him, comfort (ugh) him?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I love me some Joey Jackson, but I keep waiting to hear him call out "Hey LADY! Nice LADY!?"

 

[GreenEyesBlue]

I just wanted to post that I "HAD" some of the concerns many of our posters are questioning regarding the Juror questions. I was really nervous when I first heard them.

I went back and listened to them ALL again with an open mind and found none of them to be "Pro Defense" but merely questions they wanted clarified by someone whom they trusted to give them a professional, intelligent, honest answer.

You may want to listen again if you are nervous, it really helps alot. JMO

I have a different take on tiger/bear question. To me, the juror gave Dr. D the opportunity to further elucidate why there would be a difference between traumas and also highlighted the error of Dr. S.

 

[FrayedKnot]

"Mother Hitter"! :floorlaugh:

I'm guffawing, here!

 

[Boytwnmom]

I think she just plain forgot it after killing Travis, but then remembered it later and that's the reason she wanted to go back to the house (didn't she ask one of Travis's friends to take her back there after the murder?).

I don't think we'll ever know obviously but I have wondered if she was, in fact, "traumatized" by how bloody and difficult and grotesque it ended up being to kill him. She seems to have "idealized" thinking and so perhaps in her mind she did this "righteous" killing to "show" Travis almost like how other young, immature people threaten and commit suicide. The "I'll show them" type of thing where they imagine watching the people at their funeral and how sorry they'll be for whatever wrong they had committed. But the reality was much different and she was panicked. Hence the bloody palm print and camera. I was thinking either she thought she had taken the picture card or she wasted a lot of time looking for the camera to take out the picture card which she planned to take with her. I lean toward some kind of frenzied actions in her getaway where she knew she had limited time and had to clean herself up, take or wash any incriminating evidence that would point to her and clear out before the roommates came home. So the camera could have accidentally ended up in the machine. She could have wasted time looking for it which meant she overlooked the palm print. I find that a big error too. But who knows what lurks in the demented brain of JA...

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[sammijo]

Jodi Arias Trial - Self-Esteem and Immaturity - YouTube

I want to know what JA says at about 20 secs....!!!!! is it..."Yeah, right." (sarcastically of course)

She does say "yeah, right", 'cause that's the super mature way to deal with the fact that another adult is saying something you don't like.

 

[katydid23]

ITA... I think this will really boost her career! I just found it a little strange that he went that way. I like the theory people are saying about it being because it shows someone close to JA's age who has done something really great with her life. I just think it's something interesting to wonder about.

It is interesting to try and figure out Juan's reasoning. My speculation is that he wanted to avoid the ' hired gun' image. Usually the jurors just dismiss both sides' experts and they cancel each other out, because they all sound so phony and so rehearsed.

So maybe he wanted someone who sounded more like a University professor, and more subjective and unbiased. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

I thought Dr. D did a great job, but I'm still truly stumped about why JM chose her.

Anyone have any ideas?

She only had her license for one year when she first interviewed JA. Like I said, I think she did a really great job and was very well prepared. What a difference to watch an organized an professional witness! Especially considering this was only her third time testifying!

Why would JM choose to hire her when he could have gotten almost anyone with much more experience though?

Hmmm... I wonder if he saw her testify in one of the other 2.

Sounds like DrD's worked in Phoenix a number of years, including with convicts. She was probably highly recommended to JM by someone he trusted. Hard to imagine someone better now.

 

[minor4th]

I was growing pot in the 9th grade...big deal.

I think it's a pretty big deal, and I would intervene in some way if I caught one of my kids growing pot in 9th grade.

More importantly, if you ended up killing someone later in life and were being evaluated by psychologists, it would indicate an early tendency to violate rules and norms.

 

[lil_buddy]

Why is everyone on Janeen DeMarte like she has some sort of drinking problem?

If you watch Dr. Demarte closely, and let me tell you, I have (but, I digress...in my bunk), you will notice she pours a little bit of water into those fancy styrofoam cups and sips it.

At worst she's just using the cup and water carafe as a prop to give herself something to do, because I can't imagine answering Wilmott's questions-in-search-of-a-point is particularly engaging.

I mean, really, if one of your "data points" for criticism is that someone testifying (in Phoenix, go figure) is sipping too much water you 1. Have very little of relevance to say and, therefore 2. are probably Dr. Drew.

Dude, I would LOVE to see DrD up on that stand. He'd crumble like a month old cookie.

 

[KPinMN]

It's not really a matter of opinion. That is an innaccurate and dangerous lie that therapist is telling people. I am curious if that therapist is licensed.

You are correct, imho, MeeBee. My counselor (licensed, been practicing for many years) is the one who, based our sessions and my journals, determined that it's likely my mom has BPD. She has never once associated BPD with ASPD/psychopathy. She has always described BPD very similarly as DD did on the stand. BPD is not the female version of ASPD/psychopathy, these are separate personality disorders however a person may have both of them.

 

[SyraKelly]

Agreed. trauma is trauma. But the juror question seems to indicate at least one juror is thinking the same thing. Trauma is trauma, so why did Dr. S find she had PTSD and you (Dr. D) didn't? Are you saying she could not have or did not experience trauma then?

to which Dr. D answered - correct, trauma is trauma and both a tiger and a bear attack (murder gone awry and DV/self defense could induce trauma and maybe even PTSD. BUT

IF the patient lies about the traumatic event, then the things (nightmares, triggers, etc) are not going to be the same. And JA not only did not avoid triggers for either of those scenarios for her to properly be diagnosed with PTSD because JA sought out chances to be "triggered" by going to memorial, associating and communicating with his family and friends after the murder, writing about TA in her journal post murder, etc etc etc.

She actively sought those things which should be triggers out.

No one suffering PTSD is going to willingly seek out things relating to TA like JA did whether she murdered him or killed him in self defense.

In other words PTSD is not believable to Dr. D no matter what the cause, tigers or bears, lies or truths because of JA's actions afterwards.

Beautiful post-Thank you for explaining so I could understand what happened,cause I was not gettin it-LOL

 

[Linda7NJ]

While I admire the prosecutions expert... I don't share her opinion of Jodi. In an effort to fit Jodi into a DSM criteria for a personality disorder.... the blatantly obvious label of "murdering psychopath" gets lost.

Jodi wasn't traumatized in the least from slaughtering Travis. IMO she planned it, remembers it, enjoyed it, and felt he deserved it. She isn't capable of love or remorse.

That's the difference IMO between Jodi and borderline. IMO.

That's the difference


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[sammijo]

I'm curious about how many people, besides me, found the story about the dog to be an obvious fiction.

She offered it in response to a question about whether she has anger issues and you can almost see the light bulb go on. She realizes that she has a Hobson's choice: admit to anger and be a suspect, or deny it and not seem credible. Her solution is to invent a silly event in which she gives a dog a little kick and it doesn't suffer any serious injury, but runs away and is never seen again. She gets to profess undying love for all animals, and instead of admitting to occasional fits of rage she becomes St. Jodi of Assisi.

Doggy Boy? Really?

Exactly! Admit to something of a lesser degree to avoid admitting to something really horrible. She really is a study in deflection. She deflects questions, she deflects blame, she deflects soap and water, oh wait...I added that last part. She's looking pretty dirty these days, even on washin' day.

 

[OldCarGal]

Dr. DM put her hair behind her ear. So did Jodi.

 

[mobius99]

Just gotta say I loved it today when JW was trying to trip up the witness with emails or IM's and when Dr D asks to see them Wilmott wanders around for a good few minutes and unable find them, gives up and then gets REALLY snotty with Dr D (like it's HER fault that JW doesn't have her stuff organized) JW really lets her frustration show and instead of tripping up the witness, trips herself up and comes across looking incompetent.

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 50 - Part 3 - YouTube

It starts at 11:10 and the demeanor change in JW is unreal! She gets REALLY catty to the point of being completely unprofessional and it only gets worse as the witness continues to call her out on different points and I cannot decide who made JW look worse..the witness or JW herself!! LOL.

The cat fight between the ladies...LOL. When the whole "I don't want to mislead" exchange happened I noticed that Dr DeMarte did something that I picked up from a really great communicator (imo). And that was, as Wilmott's volume got higher and whiner in her frustration, Dr DeMarte brought voice down lower and lower. She knows how to push Wilmott's buttons.