trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[Sustained]

Hopefully next week, we can get back to the murder itself and reinforcing the Arias premeditation.

 

[kscornfed]

What else could she do? There's not a specific diagnosis to fit every behavior and murder isn't a symptom of personality disorders. Most diagnoses are done in less than half the time she spent.

i'm not suggesting she should have done more. i was wondering if she wasn't allowed to go farther----like saying she has ASPD. that's what the question was i answered. i don't know anything about psychological testing so i don't know.

 

[raisincharlie]

I know. With their overall 60 plus years experience you would have thought it would have taken less time than Dr. D. The more time they had in the more $$$$$. That leaves you to believe they actually did try to fit Jodi into a DV situation and asked questions until they received the right answers. I'm sure sending her those books helped.

I don't think they asked questions of Jodi until they got the right answers. I think a majority of those hours were spent teaching Jodi how to comply with a DV situation and giving her the answers. JMO

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Camoflage fashion

OMG this is hilarious. Just catching up this morning and saw this and busted out laughing.

I think yesterday was a good day for Travis. I loved fiding out through the brilliant DD that 1) JA hit on a guy on the plane home from the memorial service, 2) she stole a ring from TA. Also loved the fact that DD got in the Christmas Tree Caper.

I swear that yesterday at some point, it may have been during the Christmas Tree outing, JA said "eff her" under her breath to JW....I need to go back and watch the video. She was mumbling stuff closed mouth to her Twin Attorney Doll.

We are in the home stretch now...:rocker:

 

[rose222]

Hopefully next week, we can get back to the murder itself and reinforcing the Arias premeditation.

Yes! I'm so glad that JM got all this DV stuff out of the way! Let's get on the premeditated murder!

 

[tlcya]

Mornin' everyone! Just finishing up yesterday's testimony and I am not going to lie, but I skipped to Juror questions. I love the jury questions.

One comment about the bear/tiger example. As an adult survivor of severe childhood abuse, I have issues with men. Though my mother was negligent in protecting us, I have never allowed a 'man' i.e. dh or boyfriend to discpline my children because it causes me a great deal of anxiety due to the abuse. In my mind a man is large and powerful and therefore unable to control the level of discipline they can render. I start to cry and can not control my feelings of wanting to protect them..even yelling bothers me. My current dh has children and corporal discpline was something he and his ex wife used. I have never used corporal discipline with my children. The first time he went to spank one of his children was a horrible experience. I went into the mode of protector. He said later it was unlike anything he had ever seen. I jumped up and stood between them and was screaming at him to stop. He had not touched her yet and was not using a 'weapon' but was going to spank her with his hand. However, when his ex wife smacked her I had no reaction.

Basically, in my mind the male abuser is the one with the most power and the one who can hurt the most. Females do not. I understand the bear/tiger thing and do not know if I stated the difference in a way anyone could understand. But yes, there is a difference. Its about what you know to be true and what you don't trust. I know that a man is physically stronger and larger, I do not trust that. I had to learn to trust that he would not spank/abuse his dd but he also had to learn that corporal punishment causes me to feel physical symptoms, anxiety, sweating, fear even when it is not directed at me but at someone smaller than him. Females are smaller and do not pose the same threat to me.

K

Thank you for sharing that mom. I also thought the question was a good one and did not see it as negative towards the prosecution. Your triggers are more powerful males and smaller more vulnerable potential victims (children). So you totally got why the jury had questions about the distinctions between different types of trauma and triggers and the fact that the responses a survivor has would rely heavily on the exact trauma that caused their fear and anxiety.

One of the most telling things to me is JA claiming she planned to go camping with a group of strange men. Were she a real victim who had survived a fearful attack by a powerful male, she would not only never plan such an activity, I propose she would never even make up a lie about such a thing because the mere thought of it would heighten her anxiety level.

Triggered responses are irrational. They are deeply seated in the trauma event and they are not controllable for the sufferer.

JA does not suffer PTSD and I think the jury has a better understanding now of why Dr. D. feels confident saying that.

 

[Southern_Meadow]

I'm really glad Dr. D got in how Jodi was flirting with the guy on the plane after the memorial, especially that she DID call him, and the ring she stole, although I wish Dr. D had included it was an engagement ring TA had for someone else...minor detail though I guess.
:clap:

Last night on NG or either DD, I can't remember which, Beth Karas said she thought the State tried to get the fact it was an engagement ring in, but the judge would only allow Dr. Demarte to say it was a ring. If the jurors are adhering to the admonitions -- and I think they are for the most part -- they probably assume it was one of Travis' rings. IIRC he's wearing a ring in several of the pics I've seen.

 

[joyceandjay]

Well watching part 2 afternoon session, I really notice Mr.Nurmi how he has completely checked out. You can tell from his body language that he is very much over this case and I think really doesnt care about the out come!

 

[boonedock]

Just out of curiosity does anyone else find the way JA whispers to either the mitigation specialist or JW disturbing sometimes it seems very sexual and gives me the heebee jeebies.

 

[beeshie]

OMG, I just saw on this video when JM asks Dr. D about why didn't she apologize to JA. Dr. D said because that would make her appear biased. Nurmi got the biggest smile on his face. BTW. JW saw him do that and if looks could kill. He knows Dr. D is awesome! Also, I think he is trying to ignore JW and JA a lot more. He knows he is not an official member of their little clique.

Nurmi only smiles when he strongly disagrees with what the witness says...just like he smiled when Dr. D said Travis' verbal abuse was infrequent.

 

[momof7]

Morning guys! :seeya:

So, Jodi has been diagnosed with BPD which seems to fit her like a glove.

Many people with BPD have posted on this site and provided us with more insight into this diagnoses. Murder does not seem to be a factor in this illness.

So, my question is: Does everyone think that Jodi has other mental conditions that would have caused her to carrying out this brutal premeditated murder? I mean, what normal person would do this?

I think it was reality and fantasy colliding. Anyone who goes to a memorial service for someone they supposedly love would not in any way shape or form be picking up men on the way home on the plane.

She has no ability to think of anyone but herself. TA was not important to her as in, she loved him or he completed her as a spouse would per se. He was a step in whatever direction she was looking to go.

Even Dr. D said that she wasn't upset about killing TA but was upset that people would know about her sexual activities. Its always about what people think of her. She claims self defense because it makes it seem more 'normal'. She wants to appear NORMAL even though she knows she is not. Her version of the word. I don't like to use the word 'normal' because every person has their own version of normal. To her running after and constantly placing herself in situations that 'show' she loves the person is what people do. She thinks confronting Bianca showed she loved MM. He did too probably because he saw nothing wrong with it even though they were not together. TA did not like that behavior, it scared him. That is the difference between TA and her previous boyfriends imho. DB let her act like his ex. He didn't care one way or the other. TA was different and she could not chameleon into want he wanted because it was against her nature. It didn't work with what she knew to be true in past relationships. Thats why he was 'off'.

Again IMHO. TA was not what she was used to and it called for desperate measures and territory unknown to JA. It collided at some point and caused the problem.

K

 

[Cailin Rua]

OMG, I just saw on this video when JM asks Dr. D about why didn't she apologize to JA. Dr. D said because that would make her appear biased. Nurmi got the biggest smile on his face. . He knows Dr. D is awesome! Also, I think he is trying to ignore JW and JA a lot more. He knows he is not an official member of their little clique.

He may literally be filing her away in his head as a resource for other cases. She comes across well.

 

[kscornfed]

I know. With their overall 60 plus years experience you would have thought it would have taken less time than Dr. D. The more time they had in the more $$$$$. That leaves you to believe they actually did try to fit Jodi into a DV situation and asked questions until they received the right answers. I'm sure sending her those books helped.

i think that 44 hours ALV spent with her was more coaching than interviewing. 'i'm sending you books on DV. study them, and then we'll talk about them.'

 

[tlcya]

Just out of curiosity does anyone else find the way JA whispers to either the mitigation specialist or JW disturbing sometimes it seems very sexual and gives me the heebee jeebies.

yes. JA's body language during those moments implies a disturbing level of intimacy and gives me the heebie jeebies as well. It is a very interesting view of JA though. I don't think she can help it. Suggests to me she really is a one trick pony and has always relied heavily on her sexuality, even when it is highly inappropriate and does not fit the circumstance.

 

[buckeyefan1]

I used to like Vinnie but now he's like a poorly scripted car salesman.

I have pretty much given up on watching HLN. I think his co-hostess is lame this week. I also like D. Driver a lot. Her observations are fascinating.

 

[raisincharlie]

i do think she used 2 weapons to suggest 2 intruders---certainly not her. another effort to get the spotlight off herself.

as for the camera, i agree with you. she CLAIMS to be a photographer. it's what she WANTS to be seen as. that doesn't mean she's any more knowledgeable about a camera than you or i. and i don't believe she is. as a 'photographer', i would also have thought a good wash with some bleach would have destroyed that camera and everything on it. i see no reason to think she thought anything else.

she had to put it in the wash because it was covered with blood---a lot of it HER blood. it's the same as putting his body in the shower. to remove traces of HER.

and she didn't take it because everyone knew he just bought it. it would have been the ONLY thing stolen, would have made no sense for the 'intruders' to do that, but would have made perfect sense for the 'professional photographer' to do so. she was stuck.

hey, nobody's claiming she's a genius mastermind who didn't make mistakes that day---but her defense is pointing out her mistakes as being evidence of 'the fog'.

kscornfed - the BBM - I believe you hit the nail on the head. This is in line with why she took the gun and the knife and possibly the rope (if it existed), each of those items could be traced back to either her directly or a family member. As such they had to be removed from the scene.

Most people would indeed assume a camera thrown in a washer with bleach in the water would not be viable after a cycle. The cycle is verifiable because the crime scene photo's show the clothes and the camera to be free of blood.

 

[DebinGA]

Nurmi only smiles when he strongly disagrees with what the witness says...just like he smiled when Dr. D said Travis' verbal abuse was infrequent.

If TA's verbal abuse toward Jodi wasn't infrequent, I wonder why the DT didn't jump at the chance to point to the many instances of it in their 84,000 written exchanges. Going by what JW produced Wed./Thurs., there were 2 different "conversations" and 1 she alluded to but couldn't locate in court.

 

[buckeyefan1]

Hay! I heard that Travis had a Will. He left Nap to Deanna, didn't he?

I wonder when he wrote the will? If it was during the time he was dating JA and he left her nothing that really shows he was ready to have her out of his life. I hope that makes sense.

 

[TexMex]

Was there really a 14 month bf break between MM and DB?

I think that's what Willmott was claiming yesterday....

 

[tlcya]

I agree, the camera may be have been in the washer because she was loath to take it with her being easily identifiable as something missing from the crime scene but she couldn't just leave it laying there because her DNA (blood trace) may have been on it.