trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[G&AMom]

i'm not suggesting she should have done more. i was wondering if she wasn't allowed to go farther----like saying she has ASPD. that's what the question was i answered. i don't know anything about psychological testing so i don't know.

I have been wondering this as well. I think we were all expecting a diagnosis of ASPD.

I did a little googling and saw something that said the classification of "anti-social personality disorder" is being removed from the new edition of DSM that's coming out, DSM-V. It's going to be replaced with something similar, but the name will be slightly different and I think the criteria for meeting it will be somewhat different, too.

I wonder if the prosecution chose not to get into whether Jodi has ASPD because a few years down the line, an appellate attorney could say, hey, her conviction was based on a diagnosis that doesn't exist anymore.

 

[TXProfessional]

It was likely deemed far too prejudicial. Thanks for finding that!!!

kaRN, I know a lot about the discipline of Pysch/MH but law not so much...So here is my question, if you know. Why would the scales of a testing instrument be too prejudical if the results (dx) of the instrument can be allowed in court...I'm truly lost on this one. BTW she had other very telling elevated scores that could, if misinterpreted or misunderstoo, provide her an out (if a juror is leaning for a reason to excuse someone), do you think that's why they didn't go in that direction. TIA

 

[YESorNO]

So "Mashugana" was out, then.

MUSHUGANA-- perfect and :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

:seeya:

 

[SCSam]

WHAT? I have to disagree!

Perhaps JB was just a tad more slippery when he had to be and used social media/all media to his advantage. Did not seem to matter WHAT he put out there.. just that he kept putting SOMETHING out there. I think he learned a lot from social media and used what he learned (or his staff learned) to his advantage. JMOO of course. Can not watch him to this day and not sure that will ever pass.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Morning guys! :seeya:

So, Jodi has been diagnosed with BPD which seems to fit her like a glove.

Many people with BPD have posted on this site and provided us with more insight into this diagnoses. Murder does not seem to be a factor in this illness.

So, my question is: Does everyone think that Jodi has other mental conditions that would have caused her to carrying out this brutal premeditated murder? I mean, what normal person would do this?

Mental illness does not cause people to murder.

 

[raisincharlie]

I still feel like the after isn't as important. Pre-meditation is about the "PRE"...

She wanted him dead, and she accomplished that. Her 'plan' may have been mostly in her mind about about how she was going to kill him, and that part was well organized. Pre-meditation in no way means she needs to know exactly how she is going to clean up her mess.

Fight or Flight is a normal response. As testified to by RB, and others who saw her immediately after, she had no complaint of a headache, and there were no concerning marks, or evidence to indicate she had been in a struggle of any kind. JA made sure TA was never given that opportunity.

Continuing to evade responsibility and accountability demonstrates for JA this was a case of Self but the evidence shows by the slice marks in his hands TA was the only one with a need for defense. Evidence of a struggle, well a sliced throat, 28 stab wounds, and bullet in his head; the brutality of TA killing is the only truth in JA web of lies.

Well said and spot on. :yesss:

 

[Liebchenmutti]

I believe when JA says, "I still can't marry him" (Travis) I think it's because she STILL can't get Travis to ask her!!

I think Jodi was seething with rage that she was not "wife material," so she put this nonsense in her journal. The "something wrong with that boy" was that he viewed her as garbage.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

Catching up on yesterday's redirect with Juan.

My, when the 'hiding behind the Christmas tree' was mentioned, boy did Jodi look embarrassed. JW objected and it looked like Jodi was say to JW 'I wasn't hiding' or something.

And Wilmott keeps getting her objections overruled. YAY. This is one of the best parts of the trial, so far, I think.

 

[kaRN]

As DrD was explaining Jodi's test results to JM, her eyes lit up at the memory of what she'd found, i.e. high elevations on so many markers [I don't know the correct terms]. It was as if she had a "Eureka!" moment having run across something rarely seen, but that wasn't expanded upon. Anyone remember that and know what it meant, if anything?

They shut her down immediately. I remember that. DrS also found other pathologies he wasn't allowed to elaborate on. That's why I believe it's inadmissible.

 

[Bravo]

I hate to ask but is there Court today? TIA. I didn't follow much of yesterday late aft. and have been watching the Boston tragedy.

 

[Really?]

I do not recall her saying how she knew about the ring and I seriously doubt Jodi would have told her. I think it is much like the tire slashing incident, people knew, people suspected but there was no concrete proof. The significant thing about the ring, to me, was the fact it was an engagement ring TA had bought for someone else and it didn't pan out. He was supposedly saving it to trade in on a new one when he found Ms. Right. Other than those things, that's all we know, no time frame or the outcome, wish we did know.

Raisincharlie......why is your font so small....it's hard to read.....moo

I like your posts.......just not the size...lol

 

[rose222]

I have no doubt in my mind that JA left the camera behind on purpose. No way did she take time to delete the photos (even if it took only a minute) after murdering Travis only to leave it behind. She had a lot of work to do in a short period of time before Travis' roommates got back home. If she planned on taking the camera with her then she would not have deleted the photos at that time. She could have done so in her car later. The camera was an importance piece of evidence. No way that JA took the knife and gun but forgot to take the camera. She deleted the photos, put the camera in the washer and off she went...

 

[G&AMom]

So "Mashugana" was out, then.

That's also not a standard psychiatric diagnosis, although it is going to appear in the new DSM-V iirc.

 

[iSleuth]

You know what really stuck out to me was in that email from JA to TA from Feb 14...
The one which was read in court where Jodi tells TA about her own anger and how lucky she is to have him in her life...there is not one comment about Valentines Day.

 

[SCSam]

Originally Posted by Horace Finklestein
Willmott seems to be extremely undereducated or maybe just the last person who should be involved in actual trials. Her ideal job would be to maybe work as a collections attorney or sue people for rent/credit card payments...and no I'm not kidding. Other professionals in the legal field have to be wincing with her as a visible representative of their craft.


How did you know?? You're pretty close, but our attorneys on legal thread have stated she is well qualified with experience.

http://willmottlaw.com/index.html

 

[SCSam]

I hate to ask but is there Court today? TIA. I didn't follow much of yesterday late aft. and have been watching the Boston tragedy.

Nope.. not till Tuesday next

 

[raisincharlie]

Raisincharlie......why is your font so small....it's hard to read.....moo

I like your posts.......just not the size...lol

I'll try to do better :blushing:

 

[Renee110]

For anyone interested in JA MMPI-2 "elevated" scores on the 10 Clinical scales. She was elevated on 7 of the 10 clinical scales.

I was most interested in the one she was the most elevated on and thought you might be too. Her T-score on the Psychopathic Deviate scale was a 105 (highest of all of her elevated scores) with 65 being the threshold for clinically significant. If you want to research the scales the developer of the test is Pearson.

Psychopathic Deviate (PD)- Hathaway & McKinley (1944). (50 items). High: Poor impulse control, disidentification with societal standards, authority conflicts, marital and family conflicts, inconsiderate, narcissistic, poor judgment, extroverted, self-confident, hostile, parasitic and externalizes blame. Low: Overly conventional and conforming, passive, trusting and non-competitive. Pd is a great characterlogical scale of narcissism, externalization of blame, exploitiveness, and hostility. The subscales for Pd are very important in understanding elevations in Pd. Elevations in Pd can be due to a hostile, exploitive and truly psychopathic mentality, or moderate elevations can be an extroverted normal going through a divorce, or a normal teenager. If Pd-O is greater than Pd, then the more pathological interpretations should be used. If Pd-S is higher than Pd, then the more benign interpretations should be used. It is helpful to also look at the content scales of anger, authority problems, family problems etc. to help understand elevations in Pd.

I know scales need to be seen globally as well as individually, yet I do not understand why this scale was not discussed in detail/ad naseum IMHO.

Excellent post. Thank you!

 

[Sleuth5]

For anyone interested in JA MMPI-2 "elevated" scores on the 10 Clinical scales. She was elevated on 7 of the 10 clinical scales.

I was most interested in the one she was the most elevated on and thought you might be too. Her T-score on the Psychopathic Deviate scale was a 105 (highest of all of her elevated scores) with 65 being the threshold for clinically significant. If you want to research the scales the developer of the test is Pearson.

Psychopathic Deviate (PD)- Hathaway & McKinley (1944). (50 items). High: Poor impulse control, disidentification with societal standards, authority conflicts, marital and family conflicts, inconsiderate, narcissistic, poor judgment, extroverted, self-confident, hostile, parasitic and externalizes blame. Low: Overly conventional and conforming, passive, trusting and non-competitive. Pd is a great characterlogical scale of narcissism, externalization of blame, exploitiveness, and hostility. The subscales for Pd are very important in understanding elevations in Pd. Elevations in Pd can be due to a hostile, exploitive and truly psychopathic mentality, or moderate elevations can be an extroverted normal going through a divorce, or a normal teenager. If Pd-O is greater than Pd, then the more pathological interpretations should be used. If Pd-S is higher than Pd, then the more benign interpretations should be used. It is helpful to also look at the content scales of anger, authority problems, family problems etc. to help understand elevations in Pd.

I know scales need to be seen globally as well as individually, yet I do not understand why this scale was not discussed in detail/ad naseum IMHO.

We have a winner! There could not be a better description of the Einstein we've come to know and loathe.

 

[makayla]

One of my fav moments yesterday. JW claimed the 14 mo. break. DrD politely said, "Let me check my notes" [about what Jodi had told her]. JW yammered on as DrD immediately found the applicable spot in her incredibly organized notebook. DrD returned from her note-checking telling JW, "Yes, I was right." JW yammered on about something else as if DrD hadn't spoken.

Jennifer did that repeatedly during her cross of Dr. D - if Jennifer didn't like the answer, she quickly spoke over her or immediately changed the subject - it was so obvious. Jennifer was like a runaway train, racing down the tracks to her own destination, not stopping for anything along the way, and it clearly showed her lack of knowledge on the subject of psychological testing and resulting scores.