Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

[Hatfield]

From what you have stated thus far, I can imagine your response to 9/11 was similar to mine. I was a wreck.

Yes, still impacted by it. I get to visit back there on occasion and what people may not realize if they have never lived there is the sheer shock you get of just not seeing the skyline the way it used to be. There is something missing there and your mind cannot adjust to it when you look towards where the towers were.

It still shocks me when I go back and visit and my mind wants to fill in the gaps where the buildings once stood. Its a constant sad reminder of all the people that perished.

 

[gngr~snap]

I thought that Nicole's was worse than Ron's, I think that Travis's and Nicole's were about equal.

I have never seen many of the photos from that scene...
I worked full time and had small kids back then.
I did see the Bronco chase in LA
Never watched any of the trial except the "fit acquit"

 

[kaydono]

We know that the parents saw a problem with their dear daughter - They just kept it in the family.....Shoved her on over to Grandma to deal with.

That makes me angry. Basically "somebody else's problem" now.

 

[Ships]

The more I think about the gun, the less it bothers me that she used the knife first. Jodi put a lot of thought into this crime. FWIW, I'm one of the people who believes that she went there to give him one last chance to remember the good times. I think she apologized for whatever it was that Travis was angry about in his email to her, she promised she wouldn't do anything to embarrass him, had sex any way he wanted and then she asked for one last chance to make things work. He refused and she followed through with her plan.

Guns can be traced. She probably knew it would look suspicious that a .25 caliber weapon was taken from her grandparents and then the same size gun was used to kill Travis. Her first choice was to get him in a vulnerable position and then strike while blinded by a flash directly in his face. A gun that small would be easy to conceal in the waistband of her pants and she could get to it if the stab wound wasn't enough to incapacitate him. What she didn't count on was how messy it is when your victim is dying but still capable moving around. Stumbling to the sink and coughing up blood, crawling and leaving a trail, and possibly still capable of getting to a phone in the other room. So she stomped and stabbed him until was weak enough for her to deliver the fatal cut across the throat. That, however, made things worse. A huge amount of blood, he's still moving, and she has to get him back into the shower. In that horrific moment I think she panicked and used the gun as a last resort to finish him so that everything would stop.

Jodi is an evil person, but I don't think anyone can be prepared for that kind of carnage. It saddens me to think that line she attributed to Travis when she told the intruder story ("I can't feel my legs") was probably a detail from the actual crime. In the movies, the victim of a stabbing usually says something pithy (Et tu Brute?) and then collapses to the floor. Her victim didn't die quickly, and he was spreading evidence everywhere. The gunshot wasn't merciful, and it wasn't a symbolic coup de grace, it was just expedient.

That's pretty much how I see things panned out.

I guess with one difference. I feel there's no need for the camera flash in order to stun him, though. I personally think she could have quite easily asked him to stand or kneel facing towards the camera, and just asked him to close his eyes for the sake of the shot. He would be in an extremely vulnerable position and give her the best chance of immobilizing him with the first blow. I suspect that is where the wound to the vena cava occurred.

 

[m1279]

Same here, Dewey! When I heard JW trying to imply in her chirpy little sarcastic voice that the bullet that went through Travis' brain was ONLY from a .25mm - I about came unglued. If my t.v. was a portal into the courtroom - I could'a reached through and yanked every hair outta her head.

Agreed. I'd love to say something regarding this about her "bald spot" (which has been pointed out by previous poster)s but I don't want a time out lol. So I'm going to zip my lips. VERY uncalled for the way she tried to glide over the caliber of the gun. Sick.

 

[kaydono]

I have never seen many of the photos from that scene...
I worked full time and had small kids back the.
I did see the Bronco chase in LA
Never watched any of the trial except the "fit acquit"

Yupp, Travis and Nicoles, both head almost completely removed from the body. Disgusting.

 

[Juli]

RBM The stolen gun from grandpa is what I'm struggling with tonight. Help me if you can.

I was thinking Jodi could have just taken the gun quietly and then put it back after the murder. Why have it reported stolen as part of a break-in?

Her grandpa must have kept close track of his guns, I'm guessing, and would have noticed it missing right away.

Trying to think like Jodi taxes my brain!

Okay, she might have thought once Travis was found dead LE would hear about her previous antics. But, I doubt they'd be checking out all her grandpa's guns if she put it back. Having it reported as stolen worked against her in the end. What do others think on this subject?

See, I'm no good at being a sneaky criminal. I wouldn't have thought of the gas cans either.

If she had put the gun back, LE would have found it when they arrested her and searched her grandparent's house. If the gun was there, it could have been matched to the bullet used in the crime. Investigators can fire a bullet out of a gun and match the rifling on the test bullet to the one from the crime scene.

 

[kaydono]

I am gonna go scan the other forum thingy, about the observers. I know that title is incorrect but frankly, I am getting sleepy and am too lazy to look up the correct category name. Hope to vent with u all soon. TC

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I agree with everything you're saying except, BBM~ even the throat slit was not fatal yet. Dr. Horn said that today too. He was nearly dead at that point, but probably convulsing, moaning on the way back to the shower.

That is not true. Why would you post something that is Not True?

 

[BetsyB]

Sounds like you saw the show also?

I don't think so--- at least not recently. I've just been fascinated by personality disorder, sociopathy, and psychopathy my whole life, and Manson's murders were huge news when I was very small. I devoured everything i could find about him. And then every psychopath who followed.

The fascination, I've come to conclude, arose from the desire to understand the people around me: a malignant narcissist/sociopath father (with other comorbidities), a ODD nephew who grew up in my household and evolved into a (violent felon) sociopath (perhaps psychopath, though only the former has been diagnosed, to my knowledge),and most surprisingly, because I can smell PD a mile away and always have been able to, a profoundly disordered husband who fooled me (red flags? sure, in hindsight; mostly, just cognitive dissonance until he revealed himself as the utter fraud he is) from the time I met him at 16---an age when some of the narcissistic and antisocial behaviors are developmentally appropriate (so I really do think youth and inexperience, particularly with "normal" males factored in) until I was well into my 40s.

 

[katiedid2]

Wow. I am gonna have to use this non trial days to look into that. That is the good thing about this forum. People can notice stuff, that others may overlook.

That's how I'm reading Jodie's mom. When I first began watching the trial I felt bad for her. I didnt see any kind of emotion! Than boom all changed.
After observing Jodie's mom and aunt giggling in court at the most inappropriate times.

I DIDNT like it when Samantha or tanisha left the courtroom upset . I seen both look her way whispered and giggled. It made my blood boil. Even at other times, like yesterday and today the mom was giggling, smiling and talking to the person next to her. Her daughter may get the death penalty and she acts like she's at a concert waiting for it to start.
Crazy detached behaviour and poor, today and yesterday, gramma looked so bored! And uncomfortable! Looking around and lost. I think One of the attorneys commented that! The jury does watch the victims and defendants families,
so they see a big contrast, the Alexander family visibly upset and respectful in the courtroom.
than you seen the defendants family acting like they are waiting for a concert to start. Looking around for the peanuts and popcorn vender.

 

[wasnt_me]

Did anyone post a link to the new picture posted in court today of the gunshot wound?

I saw the headshot wound on a site I can't link to.

I found it by looking up images on google of his autopsy.

 

[Lorelilly]

I'll be joining you on the McStay thread. I haven't been there in a few months....I lurk 99.9% of the time but it's beyond intriguing.

I believe they are all dead. The world is so linked up nowadays that a family of 4 with the boys, and the little one with his birthmark, (they are so adorable) would have been seen by now. I can't imagine the pain of not knowing. Hell on earth I imagine.

 

[legalmania]

RBM The stolen gun from grandpa is what I'm struggling with tonight. Help me if you can.

I was thinking Jodi could have just taken the gun quietly and then put it back after the murder. Why have it reported stolen as part of a break-in?

Her grandpa must have kept close track of his guns, I'm guessing, and would have noticed it missing right away. Or perhaps she thought she was really safer if LE had it on report as stolen.

Trying to think like Jodi taxes my brain!

Okay, she might have thought once Travis was found dead LE would hear about her previous antics. But, I doubt they'd be checking out all her grandpa's guns if she put it back. Having it reported as stolen worked against her in the end. What do others think on this subject?

See, I'm no good at being a sneaky criminal. I wouldn't have thought of the gas cans either.

I have some questions also, do you or anyone know if a police report was submitted into evidence? Does anyone know how many bullets were left at the grandparents house for that gun? Were the grandparents ever called as witnesses?

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I believe Jodi's wasn't upset today because she was REALLY upset. I believe she knows she has a few more shots to make this jury believe she is sincere and feels remorse for what she did, which she clearly doesn't. She is crying these "tears" for her own benefit, not because she is really sad. It's all an act. The girl is always on stage.

JA is not capable of crying "real tears" for anyone but herself. We all know this. Why wasn't this artistic slashing murderer drawing pictures today with that dam eraser slashing back and forth today I wonder.

Nobody saw tears from her - Just her usual BS fake

 

[wasnt_me]

Disclaimer, these are not JW's words, but my interpretation of what she said in rebuttal to the ME.

"So the weapon was a small caliber pistol without much punch, I mean, after all, it's not like the bullet went all the way through his skull and exited on the other side is it?
You mean that big bad man couldn't get up and fight a girl after being shot in the head with a tiny little low powered bullet? Geesh! Isn't it true that the bullet only made a small hole in his skull?"

I swear if I was a member of Travis' family I would have jumped out of my skin and ask if she or Nurmi would like to experience a low caliber bullet ripping it's way through their skull and ricocheting around in their cranium to see how much fight they would have left. She so minimized that wound it was disgusting and insulting to the victim and his family. / end rant

She tried to get him to admit that there wasn't proof that the bullet went through the brain. He stood his ground, and she was like, "I'm not disagreeing with you on that. What I'm asking you, though, is you can't see where it went through the brain."

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I don't think so--- at least not recently. I've just been fascinated by personality disorder, sociopathy, and psychopathy my whole life, and Manson's murders were huge news when I was very small. I devoured everything i could find about him. And then every psychopath who followed.

The fascination, I've come to conclude, arose from the desire to understand the people around me: a malignant narcissist/sociopath father (with other comorbidities), a ODD nephew who grew up in my household and evolved into a (violent felon) sociopath (perhaps psychopath, though only the former has been diagnosed, to my knowledge),and most surprisingly, because I can smell PD a mile away and always have been able to, a profoundly disordered husband who fooled me (red flags? sure, in hindsight; mostly, just cognitive dissonance until he revealed himself as the utter fraud he is) from the time I met him at 16---an age when some of the narcissistic and antisocial behaviors are developmentally appropriate (so I really do think youth and inexperience, particularly with "normal" males factored in) until I was well into my 40s.

BBM: Betsy, so sorry you've had so many peeps in your world with a PD! I too have developed a red-alert for those types. It must've been very chilling realizing what your ex was all about since you knew him for so long.
I only hope that you believe in yourself and remove any doubts that being around him may have instilled.
Glad you survived!
:seeya:

 

[wasnt_me]

JA is not capable of crying "real tears" for anyone but herself. We all know this. Why wasn't this artistic slashing murderer drawing pictures today with that dam eraser slashing back and forth today I wonder.

Nobody saw tears from her - Just her usual BS fake

Travis said the only real tears she cried were for herself, didn't he?:rockon:

 

[nic2200]

This is very good. I like the way you explain things. Any chance you teach law somewhere? ...(me thinks so).

No. LOL. I do IT consulting work. I am just fascinated with criminal justice so I read A LOT. :blushing:

 

[legalmania]

I don't think so--- at least not recently. I've just been fascinated by personality disorder, sociopathy, and psychopathy my whole life, and Manson's murders were huge news when I was very small. I devoured everything i could find about him. And then every psychopath who followed.

The fascination, I've come to conclude, arose from the desire to understand the people around me: a malignant narcissist/sociopath father (with other comorbidities), a ODD nephew who grew up in my household and evolved into a (violent felon) sociopath (perhaps psychopath, though only the former has been diagnosed, to my knowledge),and most surprisingly, because I can smell PD a mile away and always have been able to, a profoundly disordered husband who fooled me (red flags? sure, in hindsight; mostly, just cognitive dissonance until he revealed himself as the utter fraud he is) from the time I met him at 16---an age when some of the narcissistic and antisocial behaviors are developmentally appropriate (so I really do think youth and inexperience, particularly with "normal" males factored in) until I was well into my 40s.

Well it was just on this morning and you described most of what was in it to a tee. Charlie had a pretty good voice, it's to bad he didn't pursue his music career instead of murder. You have a excellent memory.