Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Mango33]

ah well.. don't forget.. Oscars expert witnesses will have to make all this splatter , drip and spray work for Oscars story .. and of course, Nel gets to x-examine them, with all the time in the world to do it...

Nel is a terrific nit picker, btw..

yes!

Andrew Harding from the BBC recently wrote that
"Nel is a formidable, relentless, ferret-like performer"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26746177

I thought that was great.
I am looking forward to see him in action.

 

[MeeBee]

No one is disputing that - it's the level of disability that I believe is arguable. 'Severely disabled' is not the same thing as disabled. He himself has stated he has mobility without his prostheses but there are plenty of people with limited or no mobility that aren't amputees at all. There's also a difference between a developed disablement and a disability that is congenital.


Well, I'm not a scoffer for a start. OP fought for many, many years to be seen as equal to someone who is able-bodied in the sports world. Now, he wants special consideration due to his disability - even though he has greater mobility without his prostheses than the person I'm married to - but he still had other choices. He chose to advance on a room where he believed there was an intruder and shoot four times with an immensely deadly choice of ammunition. Stumps or not, I can't believe he didn't intend to kill whomever was in the toilet. Therefore, his disability is a moot point for me.

MOO

I'm really addressing those that are saying he's not disabled. Of course, he is. And, yes, he fought, like most people with a disability, to be seen as anything other than disabled and to be viewed as normal. It doesn't negate the fact that they are disabled. I don't think he's trying to use his disability for special consideration. He's using it to explain why he made the choices he made that night. I don't think that's too crazy and I don't think we should just disbelieve him because he happened to be an athlete. He'd also wrote, prior to the incident, that laying in bed at night he feels very vulnerable and it's a scary feeling for him. I think people are just being very selective and anything that points to Oscar possibly being not guilty of premeditation gets written off because they want to, not because it's the truth.

 

[screecher]

Nel claimed OP had his own house in Italy, and quoted from an article in Sarie magazine. Roux indicated this was nonsense, and that was proved to be the case.

It was silly really, it just became a point scoring contest for the state in which they lost. Well, they didn't lose really, they achieved exactly what they wanted and just courted further public opinion.

Eeh, the games these people play. :notgood:

BBM

And the lies OP tells. :notgood:

 

[steveml]

:waitasec: Can you please provide when and where was this proved? I missed that somewhere.

TIA

Paul Owen - The Guardian:

Day 2 - Bail Hearing

Nel read from a magazine article that stated that Pistorius had a house in Italy, in order to demonstrate that Pistorius was a flight risk.
i.e. Nel suggests OP had a house in Italy to try and get his bail refused.

When Roux denied Pistorius owned the house, Nel said it was on loan to him and the athlete spent four months a year there.
i.e. Nel suddenly changes his story and then says it's on loan to him. (which again is not specifically true as it's part of a sponsorship deal.

Hence my statement Roux indicated this was nonsense.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/bl...istorius-bail-hearing-day-three-live-coverage

 

[steveml]

BBM

And the lies OP tells. :notgood:

The man hasn't spoken yet? :crystalball:

As far as I'm aware SA has a constitutional justice system.

 

[Trooper]

i.e. Nel suddenly changes his story and then says it's on loan to him. (which again is not specifically true as it's part of a sponsorship deal.

this is your own take on it?? you are not presenting this as part of the Guardians report, I presume??

 

[screecher]

No one is disputing that - it's the level of disability that I believe is arguable. 'Severely disabled' is not the same thing as disabled. He himself has stated he has mobility without his prostheses but there are plenty of people with limited or no mobility that aren't amputees at all. There's also a difference between a developed disablement and a disability that is congenital.


Well, I'm not a scoffer for a start. OP fought for many, many years to be seen as equal to someone who is able-bodied in the sports world. Now, he wants special consideration due to his disability - even though he has greater mobility without his prostheses than the person I'm married to - but he still had other choices. He chose to advance on a room where he believed there was an intruder and shoot four times with an immensely deadly choice of ammunition. Stumps or not, I can't believe he didn't intend to kill whomever was in the toilet. Therefore, his disability is a moot point for me.

MOO

BBM

"...he wants special consideration due to his disability...."

Exactly. And it is dependent upon his agenda of the moment.

 

[Trooper]

funny enough , the South African Taxation office is mighty interested..

but anyways, my original contribution , ploddingly derailed, was.. how does Oscar control and supresss his fear while in Italy for 4 months of the year, without his weaponry?? what does he do about intruders in Italy??

Germona, specifically..

 

[Trooper]

because, of course, he cant take his glock and his parabellum and his cricket bat to Italy with him.. and he cant have them where he resides in Italy. that would be against Italian law..

so how does he manage to master his overwhelming fear and stuff?? is his psychological crutch only operative during a Southern Hemisphere summer?? is it cured by a European summer??

I'd like to know.

 

[Trooper]

oh Oscar has spoken.. he has given 2 statements, both tendered in evidence . his bail aff, and his trial aff.

that's called 'speaking ' in law.

 

[steveml]

i.e. Nel suddenly changes his story and then says it's on loan to him. (which again is not specifically true as it's part of a sponsorship deal.

this is your own take on it?? you are not presenting this as part of the Guardians report, I presume??

It was Judge Masipa's take on it. She granted bail :facepalm:

I'll refer to The Daily Star next time. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm not going to let this become a peeing contest, as there are far more interesting parts of the trial to consider.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

It was Judge Masipa's take on it. She granted bail :facepalm:

I'll refer to The Daily Star next time. :wink:

Anyhow, I'm not going to let this become a peeing contest, as there are far more interesting parts of the trial to consider.

Think I would like to read a little more into the decision by Masipa to grant him bail because I literally spit my coffee out when I heard about that but didn't do much reading on it at the time .

 

[Trooper]

well.. good ole Roux has indicated a lot of stuff is nonsense.. bags full of it. . not a lot has landed a home run..

one of the cracks in roux veneer happened during the x-examine of Van Staden.. I felt sorry for him, but this can happen to any defence lawyer, anytime,.. its par for the course, but Roux didn't deserve it.

Van Staden is tabling evidence of photos of Oscar taken that early morning...4 of them.. Roux suddenly erupts, and claims his client said a GREAT MANY photos had been taken, a VERY great many.. the court must adjourn while Van Staden produces the GREAT MANY pics ...... ook, says VS.. no problem. have to get them off my hard disc..

court adjourns,.it waits ..

VS returns.. sure, he says. here they are . NINE in all. an extra 5. Roux is completely stumped. A Great Many.

he has done what every defence lawyer is prone to , at times of exhaustion. take on board a yarn the client tells you and run with it. .

took him a while to recover from it, too..

 

[Mango33]

because, of course, he cant take his glock and his parabellum and his cricket bat to Italy with him.. and he cant have them where he resides in Italy. that would be against Italian law..

so how does he manage to master his overwhelming fear and stuff?? is his psychological crutch only operative during a Southern Hemisphere summer?? is it cured by a European summer??

I'd like to know.

I have no idea if OP felt the same fear or freaked out at noises in Italy. It is not the same environment, so I won't guess.

But he certainly brought his love of guns to Italy and used to shoot at the Tormezzo Shooting Range. If Italy allowed him to bring his gun, I expect he would have!


(Half way down this old article shows a 2012 pic of him at the Italian range from his Twitter page:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...re-month-killing-girlfriend-article-1.1267015)

 

[Viper]

because, of course, he cant take his glock and his parabellum and his cricket bat to Italy with him.. and he cant have them where he resides in Italy. that would be against Italian law..

so how does he manage to master his overwhelming fear and stuff?? is his psychological crutch only operative during a Southern Hemisphere summer?? is it cured by a European summer??

I'd like to know.

No. When OP is out of the country he just sleeps with his kegs ON. No vulnerability issues that way. :smile:

 

[Trooper]

nooo .. Judge Masipa didn't preside at Oscars bail hearing. that would be against the law..

Chief Magistrate of Pretoria Desmond Nair granted bail.

 

[Trooper]

I have no idea if OP felt the same fear or freaked out at noises in Italy. It is not the same environment, so I won't guess.

But he certainly brought his love of guns to Italy and used to shoot at the Tormezzo Shooting Range. If Italy allowed him to bring his gun, I expect he would have!


(Half way down this old article shows a 2012 pic of him at the Italian range from his Twitter page:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...re-month-killing-girlfriend-article-1.1267015)

borrowed guns.. heh.. he couldn't take his guns on aircraft.. and he couldn't carry them around the streets, and to the shooting range .they would be locked up at the shooting range in Italy ..

he couldn't even carry a penknife in Italy.. they regard that as a weapon.

 

[K.T]

I'm really addressing those that are saying he's not disabled. Of course, he is. And, yes, he fought, like most people with a disability, to be seen as anything other than disabled and to be viewed as normal. It doesn't negate the fact that they are disabled. I don't think he's trying to use his disability for special consideration. He's using it to explain why he made the choices he made that night. I don't think that's too crazy and I don't think we should just disbelieve him because he happened to be an athlete. He'd also wrote, prior to the incident, that laying in bed at night he feels very vulnerable and it's a scary feeling for him. I think people are just being very selective and anything that points to Oscar possibly being not guilty of premeditation gets written off because they want to, not because it's the truth.

Maybe he actually is using it to subconsciously explain why he intentionally killed Steenkamp? The highest probability, when a boyfriend with anger issues is alone in a house with his dead girlfriend, all odds point to the shooting as a murder.

If people want to believe Pistorius statement that his disability and being on stumps caused him to feel more fear and paranoia, ahhhh, that line of logic also would work to help strengthen the motive for murder.

Therefore Pistorius, in high stress, has a stronger motive to be fearful, paranoid and angry enough to shoot to kill his able bodied girlfriend over some escalating relationship conflict. If he is so dysfunctional in his ability to reason because of his lose of limbs/attachments and will shoot blindly, than it stands, by that logic, that he would act just as fast and badly over a real fear of losing the control/status of his partner.

 

[steveml]

nooo .. Judge Masipa didn't preside at Oscars bail hearing. that would be against the law..

Chief Magistrate of Pretoria Desmond Nair granted bail.

My apologies - I concede to that one.

 

[Trooper]

I have no idea if OP felt the same fear or freaked out at noises in Italy. It is not the same environment, so I won't guess.

But he certainly brought his love of guns to Italy and used to shoot at the Tormezzo Shooting Range. If Italy allowed him to bring his gun, I expect he would have!


(Half way down this old article shows a 2012 pic of him at the Italian range from his Twitter page:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...re-month-killing-girlfriend-article-1.1267015)

would you think, Mango, that his deep terror and overwhelming fear was an environmental one??