Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[MeeBee]

Hears the bathroom window sliding open(because people who go for a pee at 3am open windows in the bathroom????), but doesn't hear the sound of the toilet door shutting or the sound of the key turning in the lock:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Well of he's outside on the balcony when she goes on the room and closes the door but inside when she opens a window then it is possible.

 

[james83]

Everyone may be getting bedroom door wrong. The bedroom door had been smashed open from the outside prior to the murder, so it was no longer locked. There is no way OP was locked inside the bedroom! :smile:

Viper do we have verbal confirmation of that or is just visible in the photo's?.

 

[Viper]

Ok, wait so he was wearing his prosthetics to terrorize Reeva all over the house and then removed them to finish her off?

The DT is wanting to have their cake and eat it too. OP did have his prosthetics on when he was locked out of his bedroom, that is evident by the damage to the bedroom doors and the damage to the front of his prosthetics. Now once he is inside of the bedroom it is unclear what happens, whether or not he removed his prosthetics, but he had them on before he entered the bedroom. The forensics say that OP was on his stumps when he struck the WC door with the bat, but the DT says he was on his prosthetics. The ballistics expert testified that OP was on his stumps when he fired the shots. So I have to believe that once OP made his way in to the bedroom he did remove his prosthetics, while Reeva was in the WC. Whether or not there was a fight or a struggle before Reeva made it to the WC, I do not have a clue just yet.

OP was at that point I am sure exhausted from battling with the locked bedroom doors. Although prosthetics look very nice and aid in mobility, to many wearers they are uncomfortable and burdensome to have on, they are "unnatural", if you follow me, like walking on stilts. So I will give this to the DT that OP removed the prosthetics after he barged the bedroom doors, and then had his 7-17 minute terrorizing of Reeva before murdering her.

 

[Estelle]

A while ago, one of our posters claimed that after OP broke down the bedroom door, he eventually locked Reeva in the toilet himself. I wondered where she got this from at the time. But I have thought about it later and just wish to put this to you!

So when OP got into the bedroom, could they then have argued for an hour and then he picked up his gun and demanded at gunpoint that Reeva to go into the toilet and he then locked her in there himself with those keys we saw.

 

[Trooper]

Hi Trooper,

Adrenalized in a darkened room with auditory and visual impairment ... maybe ...

:seeya:

what would be the cause of that effect, . the adrenalizing?? does it only have to be 'perceived danger'?? would rage, fury, humiliation, hate, revenge, a wish to eradicate, provoke adrenalizing??

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

The number of fans growing from one to two is a minor detail, in my opinion. And it depends on the wording of the statement that has led people to believe it was only one first time. A more than minor inconsistency would be adding details like I brought the fans in, had a smoke, etc. I still fail to see how adding a fan would help him.

And we've already established that Oscar maintains they went to bed at 10. The short convo he had with Reeva is presumed to have happened in bed after he'd woken up and shortly before bringing the fans in.

No..My point was asleep Reeva turning out to be awakened Reeva in the new version seeming either one is a fabrication and that's why is not a minor detail. I didn't mention anything abt the fan numbers ..

 

[james83]

Well of he's outside on the balcony when she goes on the room and closes the door but inside when she opens a window then it is possible.

Don't know what you mean?,there is no door on the bathroom, the only order of event's is

Reeva for some bizarre reason opens the bathroom window/oscars hears it
Reeva Closes toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva locks toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva flushes toilet/oscar doesn't hear it.

 

[MeeBee]

No..My point was asleep Reeva turning out to be awakened Reeva in the new version seeming either one is a fabrication and that's why is not a minor detail. I didn't mention anything abt the fan numbers ..

I know you didn't, but the post you quoted me in and responded to was specifically talking about the number of fans being a minor inconsistency. I addressed the point about Reeva in my response to you, anyway.

 

[Trooper]

Don't know what you mean?,there is no door on the bathroom, the only order of event's is

Reeva for some bizarre reason opens the bathroom window/oscars hears it
Reeva Closes toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva locks toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva flushes toilet/oscar doesn't hear it.

even more odd.. Oscar doesn't search anywhere else for Reeva EXCEPT in the toilet. . if his story holds water, she could have run anywhere .. and of course, he didn't hear her scream. we know that, because his statements, both of them, with significant alterations, state this.. Not a sound from Reeva..

but . .. having fired thru the door. he knows Reeva is inside it..


not in the passage dressing room wardrobe , behind the wardrobe doors.. not run away out of the bedroom.. but he knows she is inside the toilet?? how? even if he peered thru the bullet holes.. he couldn't see her, because she is slumped down over the toilet pan. his line of sight wont accommodate that.

 

[MeeBee]

Don't know what you mean?,there is no door on the bathroom, the only order of event's is

Reeva for some bizarre reason opens the bathroom window/oscars hears it
Reeva Closes toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva locks toilet door/oscar doesn't hear it
Reeva flushes toilet/oscar doesn't hear it.

There was a door to the toilet room, right?

Why is it bizarre for Reeva to get up and open a window???

So, ok, the window is in the bathroom and there is no window in toilet room. Ok. I got it now.

So she opens a window, Oscar hears and as Oscar is getting his bearings and grabbing his gun she goes into the toilet to pee, as she's finishing he starts kicking up a fuss, she gets scared and locks the door.

IMO if she was in there cowering and OP terrorizing her or beating on the door, she would not be standing up in front of the door as she was. Reasonably, she'd be cowering between the toilet and the wall. Even when I was arguing against OP this was still something that stood out to me. So now that I'm on the fence I'm actually considering it. That doesn't seem like something one would do if they were hiding. Standing, perhaps listening through the door, then yes.

 

[james83]

Thing which truly shows the arrogance of Pistorius is the fact that one of the charges against him is possession of unlicensed ammo which he admits to having in his safe, but yet he pleads not guilty to the charge, unbelievable LOL.

 

[patCee]

Howdy all,

I am not presuming guilt or innocence, but while trying to understand the defence model of what happened I found myself remembering times in the past when I was adrenalized and I did a little search on what that can do to one's perceptions.

I found this interesting with regards to Oscar not hearing any screaming from Reeva, not noticing her in the bed etc.

Perceived threat situations can cause:

Quote:
Depth perception/Visual Distortion -- Things appear closer or larger than they are. For example the person waving a knife at you from across the room looks like he's inches away, suddenly grown 10 feet and waving a machete in your face. The reason for this distortion is you are entirely focused on the 'threat.'

Tunnel Vision -- Closely related to visual distortion, your peripheral vision can drop away and ALL you see is the threat.

Time Distortion -- Time slows or speeds up. This is the proverbial 'slow motion' effect. This is a result of your entire consciousness laser focusing on the danger.

Auditory Exclusion -- Your hearing can just go away because every brain cell you has is focused on the threat. To the point of you often won't hear gunshots going of within just a few feet.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/adrenal.htm


There is still a long way to go in this trial and there are lots of things that need to be explained by Oscar if he is to be believed. This is only a possible explanation if what he says is in fact what happened and I can honestly say I have no idea as to his guilt or innocence at this point in time.

:seeya:

Good post. I have direct experience of how danger does diminish certain senses and highlights others. When a car, at night, hit me head on. I was stationary and sat still, silently screaming at the oncoming driver to brake, brake, brake. I was only aware of the glaring headlights in the dark, nothing else. My adult passenger is blind. Afterwards when we talked about it I described my observations. My passenger said but he was braking hard, "I could hear the brakes screeching".
Was OP in such a rage, adrenaline charged, his senses only focused on his target?

 

[Noisy Fan]

what would be the cause of that effect, . the adrenalizing?? does it only have to be 'perceived danger'?? would rage, fury, humiliation, hate, revenge, a wish to eradicate, provoke adrenalizing??

I'm thinking that from the defence model, the adrenalizing of Oscar would occur instantly when he mistook Reeva fiddling with the bathroom window for an intruder. He would have to go pretty much straight to auto-pilot adrenalized after that for the defence model to hold up.

Remember, he had just re-entered a quieter bedroom, after turning off the noisy fan and closing up the now chilly bedroom.

:candle:

 

[james83]

There was a door to the toilet room, right?

Why is it bizarre for Reeva to get up and open a window???

So, ok, the window is in the bathroom and there is no window in toilet room. Ok. I got it now.

So she opens a window, Oscar hears and as Oscar is getting his bearings and grabbing his gun she goes into the toilet to pee, as she's finishing he starts kicking up a fuss, she gets scared and locks the door.

IMO if she was in there cowering and OP terrorizing her or beating on the door, she would not be standing up in front of the door as she was. Reasonably, she'd be cowering between the toilet and the wall. Even when I was arguing against OP this was still something that stood out to me. So now that I'm on the fence I'm actually considering it. That doesn't seem like something one would do if they were hiding. Standing, perhaps listening through the door, then yes.

It is totally bizarre that someone would get up to go to toilet and open the bathroom window?, why would anyone do that at 3am?.
Look how close the bathroom window is to the toilet door, oscar would have barely moved from the sense of terror that washed over him by the time she had opened the window and shut the door.

 

[Estelle]

There was a door to the toilet room, right?

Why is it bizarre for Reeva to get up and open a window???

So, ok, the window is in the bathroom and there is no window in toilet room. Ok. I got it now.

So she opens a window, Oscar hears and as Oscar is getting his bearings and grabbing his gun she goes into the toilet to pee, as she's finishing he starts kicking up a fuss, she gets scared and locks the door.

IMO if she was in there cowering and OP terrorizing her or beating on the door, she would not be standing up in front of the door as she was. Reasonably, she'd be cowering between the toilet and the wall. Even when I was arguing against OP this was still something that stood out to me. So now that I'm on the fence I'm actually considering it. That doesn't seem like something one would do if they were hiding. Standing, perhaps listening through the door, then yes.

Some people have suggested that if Reeva was standing, maybe the door was not locked and she was pushing it shut.

 

[Estelle]

Thing which truly shows the arrogance of Pistorius is the fact that one of the charges against him is possession of unlicensed ammo which he admits to having in his safe, but yet he pleads not guilty to the charge, unbelievable LOL.

At the Bail Hearing, IIRC OP claimed that he was keeping that ammunition for his father.

BTW where is his father? IMO we have not seen him at all at the trial so IMO that is telling event though I know they do not get on. You would think he would have come at least one day. His father attended the BH so may be he has decided since that his son is guilty and no longer supports him.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Or no fan stuff at all ...both fans were already in , one working ..the other off..

but then why would he go out to the balcony ?

:twocents:

He had to go out on the balcony in order that his alibi stands up - ie Reeva having left the bedroom without him knowing.

 

[steveml]

It is totally bizarre that someone would get up to go to toilet and open the bathroom window?, why would anyone do that at 3am?.
Look how close the bathroom window is to the toilet door, oscar would have barely moved from the sense of terror that washed over him by the time she had opened the window and shut the door.

I'm not even convinced she had a pee first. Her vanity bag/case was in the bathroom.
Is it possible that when she got to the bathroom she remembered that she hadn't cleansed, toned and moisturized before getting into bed? She is a model after all.

It could have been warm/stuffy in the bathroom so she simply opened the window.
Nothing too dramatic in that.

 

[james83]

Remember aswell that the bathroom window is another change in his story

2013 "I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised there was someone in the bathroom"

2014 "I heard the bathroom window sliding open"

2013 his words suggested someone was already in he bathroom

2014 the "intruder" has only just slid the window open.

 

[james83]

At the Bail Hearing, IIRC OP claimed that he was keeping that ammunition for his father.

BTW where is his father? IMO we have not seen him at all at the trial so IMO that is telling event though I know they do not get on. You would think he would have come at least one day. His father attended the BH so may be he has decided since that his son is guilty and no longer supports him. I have found it strange that the media have not so far commented on this.

I don't think who owns the ammo is relevant as far as the law is concerned, he had it in his house.