Trial Discussion Thread #14 - 14.03.28, Day 16

[Viper]

I don't think who owns the ammo is relevant as far as the law is concerned, he had it in his house.

Pesky laws. Who needs them really... :facepalm:

 

[james83]

I'm not even convinced she had a pee first. Her vanity bag/case was in the bathroom.
Is it possible that when she got to the bathroom she remembered that she hadn't cleansed, toned and moisturized before getting into bed? She is a model after all.

It could have been warm/stuffy in the bathroom so she simply opened the window.
Nothing too dramatic in that.

I doubt she would have done all that in dark to be honest, and i doubt she would go to all that trouble but yet sleep in the same clothes she wore in the daytime and did yoga in in the evening.
No the bathroom window stuff doesn't ring true at all, if you get up for a pee you don't open the bathroom window just because it's a bit hot, she would have been in that bathroom around 30 second's, no one would open a window,
I think it's clearly a detail added to suit Oscars fairy story.

 

[Trooper]

At the Bail Hearing, IIRC OP claimed that he was keeping that ammunition for his father.

BTW where is his father? IMO we have not seen him at all at the trial so IMO that is telling event though I know they do not get on. You would think he would have come at least one day. His father attended the BH so may be he has decided since that his son is guilty and no longer supports him.

Maybe Henke has done it again.. cant walk into the courtroom..

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-pistorius-south-africa-bears-and-breeds-these-men

'Pistorius and his father seem to share a fascination with guns. According to a recent Beeld report, Henke also kept several guns and once, infamously, shot himself in the testicles while cleaning one of them'


:facepalm:

 

[Estelle]

I don't think who owns the ammo is relevant as far as the law is concerned, he had it in his house.

I was shocked that he pleaded not guilty to that charge. But IMO that is the reason he is going to give in order to get away with it. Maybe that is a possible reason for falling out with his father since.

 

[DebinGA]

I'm not even convinced she had a pee first. Her vanity bag/case was in the bathroom.
Is it possible that when she got to the bathroom she remembered that she hadn't cleansed, toned and moisturized before getting into bed? She is a model after all.

It could have been warm/stuffy in the bathroom so she simply opened the window.
Nothing too dramatic in that.

OP didn't mention RS showering after her yoga and before retiring with him at 10 p.m. Surely she did though, if his tale is true. Ditto her brushing her teeth after her veggie/cheese repast as close to 10 p.m. as Roux can plausibly put it. Unless they'd both already eaten by the time they arrived home around 6, RS's eating so late doesn't seem to make sense. Ditto her going down to the kitchen while OP slept through her unlocking and relocking the bedroom door.

 

[Viper]

I doubt she would have done all that in dark to be honest, and i doubt she would go to all that trouble but yet sleep in the same clothes she wore in the daytime and did yoga in in the evening.
No the bathroom window stuff doesn't ring true at all, if you get up for a pee you don't open the bathroom window just because it's a bit hot, she would have been in that bathroom around 30 second's, no one would open a window,
I think it's clearly a detail added to suit Oscars fairy story.

I think it is important to note, regarding that bathroom window being open and workers leaving ladders, that the ladders were on the ground below the balcony, not the bathroom.

 

[james83]

Maybe Henke has done it again.. cant walk into the courtroom..

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-pistorius-south-africa-bears-and-breeds-these-men

'Pistorius and his father seem to share a fascination with guns. According to a recent Beeld report, Henke also kept several guns and once, infamously, shot himself in the testicles while cleaning one of them'


:facepalm:

"Cleaning one of them" hmmmmmmmm.
Anyone know if Henke called an ambulance or Johan Stander straight after this incident?.

 

[Trooper]

Good post. I have direct experience of how danger does diminish certain senses and highlights others. When a car, at night, hit me head on. I was stationary and sat still, silently screaming at the oncoming driver to brake, brake, brake. I was only aware of the glaring headlights in the dark, nothing else. My adult passenger is blind. Afterwards when we talked about it I described my observations. My passenger said but he was braking hard, "I could hear the brakes screeching".
Was OP in such a rage, adrenaline charged, his senses only focused on his target?

Rage can sometimes lead to a state of mind where the individual experiencing it believes, and often is capable of doing things that may normally seem physically impossible. Those experiencing rage usually feel the effects of high adrenaline levels in the body. This increase in adrenal output raises the physical strength and endurance levels of the person and sharpens their senses, while dulling the sensation of pain.

Temporal perspective is also affected: people in a rage have described experiencing events in slow-motion. An explanation of this "time dilation" effect is that instead of actually slowing our perception of time, high levels of adrenaline increase our ability to recall specific minutiae of an event after it occurs. Since humans gauge time based on the amount of things they can remember, high-adrenaline events such as those experienced during periods of rage seem to unfold more slowly

A person in a state of rage may also lose much of his or her capacity for rational thought and reasoning, and may act, usually violently, on his or her impulses to the point that they may attack until they themselves have been incapacitated or the source of their rage has been destroyed.

A person in rage may also experience tunnel vision, muffled hearing, increased heart rate and hyperventilation. Their vision may also become "rose-tinted" (hence "seeing red"). They often focus only on the source of their anger. The large amounts of adrenaline and oxygen in the bloodstream may cause a person's extremities to shake.

Psychiatrists consider Rage to be at one end of the spectrum of anger, and annoyance to be at the other side


so really.. perceived danger, and rage , elicit the exact same cause and effect ....

perceived danger..... big rush of adrenaline..

big Rage....................big rush of adrenaline..

 

[Trooper]

so really.. perceived danger, and rage , elicit the exact same cause and effect ....

perceived danger..... big rush of adrenaline..

big Rage....................big rush of adrenaline..



----------------------I don't think Roux is going to bring up the perceived danger and the rush of adrenaline preventing him from seeing or hearing..

Nel will just rebut that with the same symptoms being the effect of rage..

 

[DebinGA]

I think it is important to note, regarding that bathroom window being open and workers leaving ladders, that the ladders were on the ground below the balcony, not the bathroom.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/14/article-2580764-1C48AE6F00000578-631_634x440.jpg

Nonsensical, especially given the time of day and the likelihood the home owner, not to mention all the other neighbors, was at home and sleeping only steps away.

 

[Trooper]

Viper. I don't think Oscars hand was shaking... do you??

 

[Interested Bystander]

I doubt she would have done all that in dark to be honest, and i doubt she would go to all that trouble but yet sleep in the same clothes she wore in the daytime and did yoga in in the evening.
No the bathroom window stuff doesn't ring true at all, if you get up for a pee you don't open the bathroom window just because it's a bit hot, she would have been in that bathroom around 30 second's, no one would open a window,
I think it's clearly a detail added to suit Oscars fairy story.

PLUS Stipp has already said the bathroom window was closed.

 

[Estelle]

OP didn't mention RS showering after her yoga and before retiring with him at 10 p.m. Surely she did though, if his tale is true. Ditto her brushing her teeth after her veggie/cheese repast as close to 10 p.m. as Roux can plausibly put it. Unless they'd both already eaten by the time they arrived home around 6, RS's eating so late doesn't seem to make sense. Ditto her going down to the kitchen while OP slept through her unlocking and relocking the bedroom door.

Reeva's needing to eat that late in the night sounds as if they never got around to having the dinner she said she would cook for him.

OP had been out to lunch with Divaris then he went to his real estate agent's first birthday celebration party so maybe he had already had enough to eat. One media article suggested that the arguing started quite early in the evening due to the phone/internet activity. It seems that he at least ignored her and could have been busy doing other things. Maybe he was in a dark mood already.

 

[Trooper]

I give ol Henke a free pass on this one.. he has just parted out with god knows how much money to get his other son, Carl off on a culpable vehicle homicide.. give an old guy a break..

first one son , then the other.. one runs a woman down, one guns a woman down.. you know.. a man can only take so much.

 

[Estelle]

I think it is important to note, regarding that bathroom window being open and workers leaving ladders, that the ladders were on the ground below the balcony, not the bathroom.

Yes I think Botha said that the bathroom window was too small for someone to be able to climb into too.

 

[Really?]

I found this this morning....thought it was an interesting read.

http://www.statementanalysis.com/oscar-pistorius/

 

[katydid23]

There was a door to the toilet room, right?

Why is it bizarre for Reeva to get up and open a window???

So, ok, the window is in the bathroom and there is no window in toilet room. Ok. I got it now.

So she opens a window, Oscar hears and as Oscar is getting his bearings and grabbing his gun she goes into the toilet to pee, as she's finishing he starts kicking up a fuss, she gets scared and locks the door.

IMO if she was in there cowering and OP terrorizing her or beating on the door, she would not be standing up in front of the door as she was. Reasonably, she'd be cowering between the toilet and the wall. Even when I was arguing against OP this was still something that stood out to me. So now that I'm on the fence I'm actually considering it. That doesn't seem like something one would do if they were hiding. Standing, perhaps listening through the door, then yes.

BBM

If someone was trying to kick the door in, and I was trying to keep them out, I would be leaning up against that door.

 

[Viper]

Viper. I don't think Oscars hand was shaking... do you??

Oooooh nooo, his hands were definitely not shaking! 100% accuracy with three attempts to hit Reeva while only having her voice as a reference to her whereabouts behind the door; no, his hands were neurosurgeon like steady.

 

[steveml]

Can anyone remember if Roux has specifically said the light was off in the bathroom prior to the shooting?

I'm aware Roux said Annette Stipp was wrong to suggest the light was on at the time of shooting. However, is it possible he could be inferring that the light was working prior to the bullets being fired, which in turned knocked the light out.

I initially thought it strange that you would not have a bathroom light faulty for too long, as it would be a real inconvenience, The above scenario would make more sense.

 

[patCee]

so really.. perceived danger, and rage , elicit the exact same cause and effect ....

perceived danger..... big rush of adrenaline..

big Rage....................big rush of adrenaline..



----------------------I don't think Roux is going to bring up the perceived danger and the rush of adrenaline preventing him from seeing or hearing..

Nel will just rebut that with the same symptoms being the effect of rage..

I agree adrenaline/rage could evoke either scenario. Personally though I believe that it would be rage that would impel OP to fire 4 shots to a seen or unseen target. There is no evidence that he had been a victim of a previous break in. The estate's history of crime is good. Would just hearing a noise cause such an extreme reaction, even if it was one that he felt it was necessary to investigate?