Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

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But when the only messages we have indicate that he was not jealous - that does not somehow indicate that he was actually jealous or unhappy about it.

If one believes OP and his story then yes, that would be correct. However, since OP has admitted on the stand already that he was jealous then one can also say that he was in fact upset about Reeva meeting her ex for coffee. It has also been said by OP in court during his testimony that he called Reeva much more than he texted her. According to him, and this can be checked by looking at the records, the phone records show a lot more phone calls to Reeva than she made to him. Now, if one calls their partner more often then they text their partner it is completely possible that any thing that bothers them would/could be said in a call instead of a text.

MOO
 
If one believes OP and his story then yes, that would be correct. However, since OP has admitted on the stand already that he was jealous then one can also say that he was in fact upset about Reeva meeting her ex for coffee. It has also been said by OP in court during his testimony that he called Reeva much more than he texted her. According to him, and this can be checked by looking at the records, the phone records show a lot more phone calls to Reeva than she made to him. Now, if one calls their partner more often then they text their partner it is completely possible that any thing that bothers them would/could be said in a call instead of a text.

MOO

But that's suggesting that because there isn't enough evidence in the text messages, we can make presumption about telephone calls for which we have no evidence?
 
One thing I picked up on is Angry Oscar doesn't whine. I hope Nel keeps him angry. Gawd that whine is annoying.

I think Nell has got a system down...he keeps him angry and only pushes to the blubbering when he wants to take a break.
 
The elephant in the room that many may be averting their eyes from in the new evidence that Mr. Pistorius gave today. According to OP forensic investigators or the two detectives or someone massively rearranged the items in his bedroom, and he intends to prove it using the photographs and expert witnesses. :floorlaugh:

At this point I would like go formally apologize to Mr. Roux for claiming that he worked with OP to construct OPs version of events. I now believe that there is no way any attorney, let alone one of his caliber, would fabricate such a huge pile of rubbish and bring it to court. No, this mess is what OP gave Roux and he is just doing his best.
 
It is suggesting that OP knows very well that texts can and may be saved. OP is extremely worried about his image and what gets put out in the media. OP has stated that he called Reeva more often than he texted her. OP said that he preferred to say to her what he needed to on a phone call or in person. Just because there is no text to prove that OP was jealous and upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee does not mean that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee. Even though OP claimed during his testimony that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee it does not mean that it was the truth. OP has lied on the stand.

MOO
 
And I am still wondering about Reeva's meeting with ex-boy friend. She must have confided in him somewhat.

RS had okay'd it with OP first, but the ex-bf said OP called RS twice in 20 min. period of their coffee and catch-up meeting.
 
This morning when listening to beginning testimony, there was a part where Oscar lost the whine and kind of had an attitude (which is why I think Nel is CEing like this). It was about 20/30 minutes in.. Then I had to stop watching the trial. Did anyone notice this, or/and did anyone notice Oscar lose the little boy whine way of speaking throughout any of the rest of the testimony? Thanks.
 
RS had okay'd it with OP first, but the ex-bf said OP called RS twice in 20 min. period of their coffee and catch-up meeting.

But OP was fine with her having coffee with her ex........that's why he called her twice I'm sure.
 
Does anyone remember Roux saying that the fans were now not working. I wonder how this will be handled?

I don't remember anything about the fans. I remember Roux saying to a State witness that the toilet room light was broken. Is that perhaps what you are thinking of?
 
So, here's my overall take on the last couple of days of cross examination:

* Oscar is a bad witness. This could be due to a variety of factors, take your pick: He's lying and his whole story is falling apart; He's nervous and not thinking clearly; He's not very articulate; He's confused, etc

* Oscar does shift blame when it would suit him better to accept responsibility for some things and be done with it. I do think he feels a bit victimized about all of this - but that might be understandable if he's telling the truth and it really was a mistake and he didn't mean to kill Reeva. Nevertheless, he should be polished enough at this point to keep that mentality in check.

* I'm not sure what to think about the sunroof incident because he is very firm about that and his voice sounds confident and true - and I also don't think DF and ST are very reliable witnesses. Whichever way the judge goes on this, I wouldn't have a problem

* The Tasha's incident happened and there's no getting around that. Irrespective of Darren's own culpability, Oscar was negligent in the way that he handled the firearm and should receive a penalty for this transgression.

* Nel has effectively raised some questions about OP's ability and willingness to tell the complete and honest truth - or maybe it's better said that Nel has raised some questions about OP's ability to perceive events with accuracy and without defensiveness. If I were the judge at this point, I'd be wondering if there were things that OP left out or spun in his version ..enough that I would consider the whole ball of wax with skepticism, but I wouldn't be convinced that OP's overall account is false, especially since the physical evidence and phone call data and such do tend to corroborate his version.

* If the trial stopped right now, and if I were the judge, I would find him guilty of culpable homicide in the shooting, and I'd find him guilty of the negligent handling of firearm at Tasha's. Probably wouldn't find him guilty of the sunroof shooting only because the two prosecution witnesses both lack credibility and have secondary agendas.

* Based on those verdicts, I would sentence him to 8 years in jail (don't ask me why - it just seems an appropriate number) with a possibility for parole after 4 years.

* It's too bad the police screwed things up and went about the investigation in such a sloppy manner because it's now impossible to know if Nel really made a point about the fans and the various objects in the crime scene because those photos are simply not reliable.
 
But when the only messages we have indicate that he was not jealous - that does not somehow indicate that he was actually jealous or unhappy about it.

I'm not so much in to this because he did murder Reeva using 4 hollow points. But OP was jealous when Reeva was only having a conversation with the husband of her friend. IIRC
 
I'll admit (and apologise) I rolled my eyes at 3 defence attorneys being introduced but it is really balanced. Many thanks for the links.

They have different types of attorneys on during different shows, but I have found that all of the attorneys are pretty fair in their assessments whether they are prosecutor types or defense types.
 
This morning when listening to beginning testimony, there was a part where Oscar lost the whine and kind of had an attitude (which is why I think Nel is CEing like this). It was about 20/30 minutes in.. Then I had to stop watching the trial. Did anyone notice this, or/and did anyone notice Oscar lose the little boy whine way of speaking throughout any of the rest of the testimony? Thanks.

I noticed.
 
I wondered if she was just a 'trophy" girlfriend - a good looking glamorous woman to be seen about with to boost his ego. Certainly didn't seem to be much genuine passion there.....

and the worst part is he did not consider her an equal...for example "don't chew gum"...."don't do this and don't do this"...I can't hear one example of him going or taking her anywhere really nice...it was all about him. Sad that such a beautiful woman ever considered him her equal.
She bought into the blade fame as many girls may have done.
 
Hi all, many thanks for your good wishes earlier this morning. It was a very long wait and it really cheered me up to receive well wishes from total strangers as once my wife had to leave, you are so removed from your normal life - its almost like another world, most of you will know the feeling! I am now recovering from a successful surgery to repair facial fractures. Anyway, during the 7 hour wait for surgery I did manage to watch some live trial coverage as it was on Sky News. Expected to miss today so was very pleased to catch it! i couldn't hear everything but it seemed to me just how awkward and frustrating OP is at times. He has clearly been schooled in what to expect and is rightly very wary of Nel but I still find his attitude absolutely baffling, counter productive and potentially self-destructive.

For someone who is mainly relying on two things:
1) his honesty - the accuracy of his narrative and his memory
2) his character - his relevant background history, the relationship, his general demeanour
...I believe he has created further doubts purely based on the content and style of his responses and that these will surely have a very negative impact on his defence - perhaps fatally*

I guess it just shows that despite everything and everyone drumming into him what to say, how to say it, how to deal with things and also knowing that he has to try his very best to give himself any chance of a reduced sentence... That he just still, cannot help himself. They say leopards cannot change their spots or at least, not for very long. It's a real eye opener into the mind of a narcissist as he almost surely is. I would like to read more opinion about his true nature and mental health as there are definitely some serious issues there. Unsurprisingly.

I am too tired and groggy to go into all the inconsistencies of his testimony just yet (I am seriously doped up to the eyeballs on a variety of painkillers and so feel wonderfully numb but not the sharpest I've ever been!). I have to have regular obs through the night so instead of sleep, I look forward to spending the night reading through all your insightful comments and opinions on the state of play. Hopefully there will be some long juicy posts to get my teeth into. KT, Lisa, Trooper, Viper - please get typing!

To wrap up.... I am very concerned that OP has set a pattern now, one too easily accepted and is avoiding 95% of responsibility and is being allowed to be awkward/obstinate/downright nonsensical and quite frankly his attitude defies belief at times. Truly remarkable actually. I will elaborate further when I'm back at home recovering.

I also fear that Nel is not as organised and focused as I would like to see. His style can lack some drama and sharp timing and the ability to really strike a telling blow into the court record. I have seen him waste quite a few opportunities and really hope he starts to make more things stick as to me, there are a growing number of gaping holes in OP's flimsy narrative that are not being highlighted anywhere clearly enough.

It is all so blatantantly implausible to me that it is cringeworthy and I want it to be thoroughly and systematically dismembered and discredited as there needs to be justice and absolutely no doubts.
There is still too much grey area despite so many inconsistencies and improbabilities and it needs some order and clarity of presentation, <before> more DT witnesses and closing arguments.

Time for evening meds!
Thanks again.
TD
 
guess OP didn't teach his friend not to chew gum when on camera...I don't know which of his buddies that guy is but he looks really cocky.
 
I don't remember anything about the fans. I remember Roux saying to a State witness that the toilet room light was broken. Is that perhaps what you are thinking of?

Is "the toilet room light was broken" OP-speak for "I'm too lazy to screw in a new light bulb"?
 
The elephant in the room that many may be averting their eyes from in the new evidence that Mr. Pistorius gave today. According to OP forensic investigators or the two detectives or someone massively rearranged the items in his bedroom, and he intends to prove it using the photographs and expert witnesses. :floorlaugh:

At this point I would like go formally apologize to Mr. Roux for claiming that he worked with OP to construct OPs version of events. I now believe that there is no way any attorney, let alone one of his caliber, would fabricate such a huge pile of rubbish and bring it to court. No, this mess is what OP gave Roux and he is just doing his best.

What aabout the "reworking" [with Roux it is implied or was stated] that OP slipped up and said RE his coming testimony of what happened.
 
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