Trial Discussion Thread #22 - 14.04.10, Day 20

[minor4th]

Evasion is deliberate. A blunder is a mistake. It can't be both... I respectfully put to you

It's the same thing as Oscar saying he owned a one up gun that he retrieved that night to protect himself, but couldn't possibly have intended to shoot the person that he was aiming at who was coming out of the toilet to attack him.

It makes no sense.

Sure it can. It was a blunder because he forgot his lines. It was evasion because he was trying to avoid the issue.

 

[minor4th]

BBM

Lets be fair here... his explanation wasn't lame... it was a lie. Lying is very relevant in this case.

I really can't disagree with you on this.

 

[lisasalinger]

Sure it can. It was a blunder because he forgot his lines. It was evasion because he was trying to avoid the issue.

BBM

Forgot his lines?

Is he auditioning for a broadway musical or is he on trial, sworn to tell the truth?

 

[Viper]

What aabout the "reworking" [with Roux it is implied or was stated] that OP slipped up and said RE his coming testimony of what happened.

Of course Mr. Roux helped OP in areas where he saw problems, no doubt he did that. But IMO there is no way Roux would put together THIS version of events. I saw his fairy tale as implausible yesterday. Today I see it as impossible. To win, the defense is asking the court to believe that the police moved the large fan from the spot where the duvet is now over to the spot where it is in the photographs, blocking the door so that OP could not run out on the patio and yell help, help, help. And they want the court to believe that many other things were tampered with significantly to make OP look guilty. It's just crazy...

 

[liesbeth]

Did we ever find out whether there is a panic button and where it is?

Pieter Baba, the security guard, mentioned this in his testimony. He wondered why OP "did not use the alarm system."

 

[Gryffindor]

Minor

What point was Nel trying to make with the fans etc? I got totally lost! :-\

Also, do you think Nel will address Reeva's clothing as a point of relevance?

Thank you x

 

[minor4th]

BBM

Forgot his lines?

Is he auditioning for a broadway musical or is he on trial, sworn to tell the truth?

Yeah, forgot his lines. Aren't we all assuming that he has gone through witness prep with Roux and has some stock default answers when he feels the pressure?

 

[soozieqtips]

Evasion is deliberate. A blunder is a mistake. It can't be both... I respectfully put to you

It's the same thing as Oscar saying he owned a one up gun that he retrieved that night to protect himself, but couldn't possibly have intended to shoot the person that he was aiming at who was coming out of the toilet to attack him.

It makes no sense.

The Tasha incident is conclusive proof that he's a liar and will not take responsibility for anything. Even when faced with the proof, his instinct is to deny - or blame - or accuse others of lying. How anyone can still feel he's a credible witness after that outrageous porky is beyond me. He even says he didn't say things 2 minutes after he just said them!
I like how Nel reminds him of this.

Giving evidence, OP has come across as selfish, self obsessed, immature, thoughtless, deceitful, whiny, irritated and insincere. He has no credibility whatsoever. None. Looking forward to tomorrow's evidence to see what else he forgets.

 

[BritsKate]

He voluntarily went toward the so called danger, pulled the trigger, 4 times, with deadly black talons, into a confined space... he must have known that the type of bullets within the tiny space was likely to kill anyone behind the door or at best (if you can call it that) was reckless as to the likely outcome. The person behind the door did in fact die, so that is Murder, pure and simple, irrespective as to whether OP knew who was behind the door. Now, the putative self defence 'might' applyto knock it back to culpable homicide, but I will assert that this has nothing to do with the screaming - that would just go to show he knew it was Reeva, which I don't think is relevant to the murder charge if PT have proved the other elements of the offence.

ITA but the screaming was my personal point of no return. Everybody has a point in a trial where they go 'Yep. She definitely did it.' or 'No, he's obviously innocent.' My point was the screaming way back in the very first days. To sway my mind that is the evidence that would have to be refuted because it made the largest impact.

The 'pitch dark goodliness' of the rest of the evidence is just fluff to me. (This is why they let me nowhere near a jury too. :biggrin

 

[TrueDetective]

Welcome back True. Get some rest and then get on back here!!

I hope you caught the part where OP denied pulling the trigger in the restaurant debacle. Apparently, the gun discharged itself, and even though it's been proven that this particular type of gun cannot POSSIBLY go off unless someone pulls the trigger... it did go off!! And OP repeatedly insisted he did not pull the trigger. But he cannot explain how it was discharged, only that he didn't discharge it. Now, isn't that interesting? OP is holding a gun that cannot possibly go off unless someone pulls the trigger - the gun goes off - but it wasn't OP's fault, because he didn't do it!

Thanks soozie. No I didn't see the Tashas part, oh my thats just absolutely ridiculous! I have 40 pages to get through so no doubt in for a few surprises.

He comes across as reasonably intelligent and articulate at times but then responds in a way that defies logic and common sense and makes you seriously question his sanity and/or cognitive ability.

 

[minor4th]

Minor

What point was Nel trying to make with the fans etc? I got totally lost! :-\

Also, do you think Nel will address Reeva's clothing as a point of relevance?

Thank you x

I wish I knew what Nel was trying to get at with the fans. My best guess is he was somehow trying to show that Oscar never really got up to move fans in - that this was just a fabrication by OP to explain away what really happened. If that was his intent, he didn't quite get there IMO.

No one has brought up Reeva's clothing and that is amazing to me! I assume it's not really an issue and that's why neither side has discussed it.

 

[BritsKate]

Yeah, forgot his lines. Aren't we all assuming that he has gone through witness prep with Roux and has some stock default answers when he feels the pressure?

Um...something like 'Contamination, disturbance and tampering', maybe?

 

[jay-jay]

So are you saying that because OP's text messages indicate that he was not jealous, that somehow indicates he is an abuser or violent?

I'm responding to your post in which you indicated that, because OP appeared ok with Reeva seeing her ex at the time, that there was no possibility at all that OP could've been annoyed about it ( <<-- that is what you appeared to be saying, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I was explaining to you, by using an example of my own personal experience, that that is not always the case .. so you cannot say for sure that OP was ok with Reeva seeing her ex, just because he seemed ok with it at the time, because he may not actually have been ok with it but just didn't say at the time of the text messages.

 

[IfIMay]

Hi all, many thanks for your good wishes earlier this morning.

Time for evening meds!
Thanks again.
TD

*snipped by me.

:seeya: Great to see you this afternoon. Glad everything went well. Get some rest so we can hear your great commentary when you are feeling yourself again.

 

[minor4th]

Um...something like 'Contamination, disturbance and tampering', maybe?

And "I didnt have time to think" - although I think he accidentally used that line at the wrong time. Seems he was aware that he messed up too

 

[minor4th]

I'm responding to your post in which you indicated that, because OP appeared ok with Reeva seeing her ex at the time, that there was no possibility at all that OP could've been annoyed about it ( <<-- that is what you appeared to be saying, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I was explaining to you, by using an example of my own personal experience, that that is not always the case .. so you cannot say for sure that OP was ok with Reeva seeing her ex, just because he seemed ok with it at the time, because he may not actually have been ok with it but just didn't say at the time of the text messages.

That's not what I said.

 

[Britlaws]

ITA but the screaming was my personal point of no return. Everybody has a point in a trial where they go 'Yep. She definitely did it.' or 'No, he's obviously innocent.' My point was the screaming way back in the very first days. To sway my mind that is the evidence that would have to be refuted because it made the largest impact.

The 'pitch dark goodliness' of the rest of the evidence is just fluff to me. (This is why they let me nowhere near a jury too. :biggrin

Yes, I am certainly with you there, the screaming is a reminder of the awfulness of it all and the truly terrible ordeal of the victim

 

[kaos]

It is suggesting that OP knows very well that texts can and may be saved. OP is extremely worried about his image and what gets put out in the media. OP has stated that he called Reeva more often than he texted her. OP said that he preferred to say to her what he needed to on a phone call or in person. Just because there is no text to prove that OP was jealous and upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee does not mean that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee. Even though OP claimed during his testimony that he was fine and not upset with Reeva for meeting her ex for coffee it does not mean that it was the truth. OP has lied on the stand.

MOO

I've been thinking about brand Oscar and think he's had it drilled into him at some point (maybe from a corporate lawyer or another top celebrity with a brand to protect) just how important and vital it is to his entire lifestyle and choices.

Reeva was aware of how important how she looked in the media also related to him, hence the chewing gum message, the one about what she should wear etc His need for his mate to take the blame at Tasha's was directly connected to brand Oscar by himself today. The lesser gun charges and ammo one could possibly affect his ability to compete in other countries and also sponsors are likely to pull out. He's very aware too that he's a role model for many children so that explains his need to distance himself from the "don't steal my vibe" song.

Even the way he evades answering questions is all down to brand Oscar. He will never admit to 'killing' Reeva even if electronic devices were attached to his testicles as he can't afford to be that guy. It has to be an accident, a mistake, a tragedy rather than it being what it is - an unlawful killing. If he can't even acknowledge he had his finger on the trigger in Tasha's, and can't accept that there's even a possibility it was (even though he said he can't remember having his finger on the trigger) then there is no way he will ever accept that he bears any guilt in Reeva's killing.

I also think he was perfectly aware of avoiding writing out damaging text messages as they can ultimately come back and damage brand Oscar if an ex sold a story so he knows to use the phone when it comes to arguing instead of texting.

 

[katydid23]

I'm responding to your post in which you indicated that, because OP appeared ok with Reeva seeing her ex at the time, that there was no possibility at all that OP could've been annoyed about it ( <<-- that is what you appeared to be saying, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) I was explaining to you, by using an example of my own personal experience, that that is not always the case .. so you cannot say for sure that OP was ok with Reeva seeing her ex, just because he seemed ok with it at the time, because he may not actually have been ok with it but just didn't say at the time of the text messages.

My 22 yr old daughter is very beautiful. Her boyfriend, although not abusive, is often jealous. When she is out and about and she texts him, he usually calls her, and does not text. She says he calls her because he wants to 'hear' what's going on around her. lol

 

[liesbeth]

Of course Mr. Roux helped OP in areas where he saw problems, no doubt he did that. But IMO there is no way Roux would put together THIS version of events. I saw his fairy tale as implausible yesterday. Today I see it as impossible. To win, the defense is asking the court to believe that the police moved the large fan from the spot where the duvet is now over to the spot where it is in the photographs, blocking the door so that OP could not run out on the patio and yell help, help, help. And they want the court to believe that many other things were tampered with significantly to make OP look guilty. It's just crazy...

The whole point of not disturbing a crime scene is to allow the official police photographer to take a set of photos before the investigation starts. Then, once that's done, the investigation starts and the police must moves things to...well, investigate. The official photographer will then take pictures of all newly discovered evidence (the phone under the mat, the disc under the bed, etc) and whatever else he is asked to snap. These photographs are then handed in and the time on the camera is verified by the police admin clerk.

In this case W/O van Staden was the official photographer, not Col. Motha so I doubt that Col. Motha's camera time was verified by the clerk, but I hope it was because then we'll know for sure.